(yawn, nevermind) Federal Trade Commision Complaints against DJI and Epson

[Pilgrim Pilot]

DJI and Epson both have been advertising that they work closely together to ensure that their products work well in combination.

The RC1B controller for the Mavic Pro 2 will not connect to the Epson Moverio BT-300 glasses, and DJI and Epson confirm that they have known this for a while, and there is no fix.

After two wasted days (literally) of troubleshooting, phone calls, researching, installing, uninstalling, doing everything five times, I don't know anything else to do other than to return what I purchased, and file complaints with the FTC.

I don't usually complain, but I've been planning this purchase for several years, and I have a lot of time and actual work invested in what I thought would be a wonderful combination of technology, only to find out that these two companies don't actually deliver what they advertise.

There is a lot more I could say, but much more and I'd be whining.

For what it's worth, I did everything I could to get in touch with people 'at the top' in each company, and I informed them that if there was no solution they could offer, that I would be filing a complaint with the FTC.

Have you experienced this issue? Please share here, or send me a message, so that I have as much information as possible. I plan on filing the report after this weekend. Someone from DJI is supposed to call me today, from across the ocean, so I'll wait to see what comes of that.

Thanks.

 

[DanMan32]

If you live in the Tampa Bay Area, I could consider swapping an A I have for a B.
I originally had an A, but bought a 2nd used remote to set up as a secondary/slave. I don't really need both to be an A.
I want to have at least one A though in case I decide to get a BT-300.

 

[RayOZ]

I don’t quite understand. They are 2 different companies. I didn’t think they are obligated to make their products to work with 3rd party manufacturers unless their product specs says they do. Wouldn’t it be like complaining your Mavic RC doesn’t work with Autel drones?

 

[DanMan32]

Not really. Epson markets the BT-300 to be compatible with DJI products and markets that they work with DJI to be sure it does.

It's more akin to a well known and respected third party accessory specifically made for a Ford but with the recent model Ford, it no longer works.

I grant you the weight is on Epson to fix this, but if DJI won't cooperate in providing what the change was that broke it, there's not much Epson can do. Still, Epson can state that if that's the issue.

Remember, the BT-300 has been out for a long time. There are newer models, but none that directly connect to our remotes or any mobile devices that don't have dedicated HDMI ports.

 

[RayOZ]

If the BT-300 has been out for a while, maybe they are not compatible and Epson would have to R&D to develop a newer version to support it.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

After stewing for a few hours, I decided not to file a complaint. If it were my company, I wouldn't want such a thing simply because a product series hit a snag, and that's really all that's happened here. It's not like they've suddenly introduced a new product, and promised something that was never developed.. They actually have provided exactly what they advertised, up to this recent 'up'-grade.

I will update the other couple of threads I mentioned this in here, for the sake of the conversation.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

If you live in the Tampa Bay Area, I could consider swapping an A I have for a B.
I originally had an A, but bought a 2nd used remote to set up as a secondary/slave. I don't really need both to be an A.
I want to have at least one A though in case I decide to get a BT-300.

I would pay you to ship it to me, and I'd swap mine for yours. I don't think they'll appreciate it too much, though if I send the A back in the box, so give me a couple of days to think about whether I'm going to keep this or not. I appreciate the offer! These controllers are $400 most places online.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

Yep, and it is reciprocal: DJI markets their drone and produces content (videos, brochures, displays at trade fairs, etc..) and tells everyone the same thing as Epson, that they work closely together to make sure these products work..

I'm not sore about it anymore, but I just spent a lot of money, only to have a sudden realization about corporate America that I already knew.

Not really. Epson markets the BT-300 to be compatible with DJI products and markets that they work with DJI to be sure it does.

It's more akin to a well known and respected third party accessory specifically made for a Ford but with the recent model Ford, it no longer works.

I grant you the weight is on Epson to fix this, but if DJI won't cooperate in providing what the change was that broke it, there's not much Epson can do. Still, Epson can state that if that's the issue.

Remember, the BT-300 has been out for a long time. There are newer models, but none that directly connect to our remotes or any mobile devices that don't have dedicated HDMI ports.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

If the BT-300 has been out for a while, maybe they are not compatible and Epson would have to R&D to develop a newer version to support it.

At this point, gathering from conversations with Epson and DJI on the phone and in e.mails, things were working fine until DJI updated the controller. DJI and Epson both are looking into what caused the problem and (hopefully) what will be a solution. No mention of a solution yet from them, I'm just hoping.

All in all, everyone I have spoken with today and yesterday on the phone has been really professional, and skilled at handling my situation and irritatedness.

I'm just wondering now whether I should hold onto this equipment, or return it all, get my money back, and sit on it for another six months until everyone comes out with their next generation of stuff.

 

[DanMan32]

I'm sure you can make great use of what you have besides the BT. As I said here or elsewhere: don't throw out the baby, bassinet, soap, shampoo, with the bath water.

 

[Stitch-Up]

As mentioned in another thread on this incompatibility matter, I did cancel my order for the Epson BT300!

Having spent a bit of time reading/researching I'm of the opinion the BT300 is now quite 'old' and badly in need of an update - Android 5 has been history for a while.

I won't be buying the Moverio in they're current format.

 

[twoheadlines]

While I'm sure it's a real pain in the butt which I can relate to in another area of compatibility between a DJI product and in my a case Canon, involving the FTC would probably only muddy purely commercial waters. And for you, it would also expend a great deal of energy which might better be directed at looking for other solutions to meet your aspirations. If you were to look at a complaint, it may well be focused at Epson's marketing claims, but I suspect both DJI and Epson have quite strong arguments in support of why their respective product does not/will not communicate with each other.

 

[Welsh pilot]

I ended up buying an RC1A second hand off ebay for them to work
I will never use a phone or tablet again.
I know the design is old but quite frankly they are better than anything in my opinion as the experience when flying is awesome and this is coming from a 54 year old!
Mind you the new drone law coming out in the UK makes reference to AR glasses and say that they too will be illegal to use!
Not sure though I will stop using them.
I still have the RC1B and perhaps one day there will be a solution.
I’m pretty sure I was the one who started all this fuss 6 months back with compatibility and now it seems it may be getting closer to being resolved.

 

[DanMan32]

I don't get why govt would have issues with AR. With AR, your eyes can always be positioned in sight of the AC, even when you shift focus to the app screen. Are they eventually going to start prohibiting graphical controls while in flight?

 

[Harbrimar]

”Mind you the new drone law coming out in the UK makes reference to AR glasses and say that they too will be illegal to use!”

@Welsh pilot - Not saying y’wrong but can you point me in the direction of where this is stated? There is a restriction on wearing FPV goggles without a spotter or going beyond visual LOS but I cannot find anything that would exclude Moverio type glasses.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

In case anyone is interested, I'm updating this thread to inform about the current status of the BT-300 and DJI MP2 issue, and about what I decided..

Epson and DJI make amazing products, there is no question there.

I've been watching the BT-300 glasses since they were announced, and the BT-200 before that, and I have read about and researched (read reviews, watched videos, read technical documents, and compared) practically every commercially available set of AR glasses, and for what you get and what you pay, the BT-300 glasses were way far ahead of their time when they were released, and they are still more reliable and capable and relevant for my use than anything else at that price range, but not for long.

Pure conjecture here, but Epson has either decided to scrap their AR project (unlikely, given that their engineering team has them sitting next to the phones so they can use and troubleshoot them, and because they have numerous big-dollar contracts with companies for their industrial use), or, more likely, they are working on their next iteration, and it will be stellar, and on par with more recent versions of Android and hardware.

As it stands today, the BT-300 runs on Android 5.1, modified for the Moverio ecosystem.

I sent the glasses back, but have kept the quadcopter, and have been flying each day without missing one yet.

After working for about ten days, I realized I could probably make them work together if I created a wifi hotspot with an additional phone, or if I were to stand outside near someone's house and use their wifi network, and use an Android-to-Windows screensharing software.

After trying numerous (every?) app on the Android market, I found one that was able to do it sometimes, and then another one that finally worked, but there was lag, and although I could see the display, there was no native feedback like head tracking, and there was no proper ui, so once that was accomplished, I packaged it back up, thought about it a few more days, then set up a pickup to return them.

...

Epson and DJI both have fair customer support, compared to what you can generally expect in 2019, but almost every person I spoke to at both companies were entirely oblivious to what the BT-300 glasses were, so there was a lot of re-explaining and slow progress.

Eventually, I felt like someone from each company made it clear that they were 'on it' and understood the problems well enough to investigate, and they indicated they would fix this problem, but it was the kind of indication you give to a patron, of course.

...

I purchased both the DJI MP2 and the BT-300 knowing that it probably won't be long before the next generation of equipment from both companies arrives, because I've begun a business, and they can both be very helpful for the immediate future and into later stages, and I hoped to have a piece of 'early' technology to be able to look back on one day and say 'this is what AR was like when it was just getting good' .. but it's not good enough for me to spend $700 on and not have the one key feature I purchased it for: to fly my MP2 with.

Why not make the swap for the earlier controller? Because. I don't have a really good reason, other than I want to keep this controller that I bought. If I ever have anything to troubleshoot with this quadcopter, I want to know 100% whether the problem is on the drone side or the tx, and that's worth a lot to me over time.

...

All-in-all, I'm still in the market for AR glasses, but I can wait a while longer to see what Epson (hopefully) has up their sleeve, and by then I'll probably be ready to get the MP3!

The Skydio 2 is also coming out soon, which could be amazing if it delivers as it should, and there are a couple of other pairs of glasses out there, like the Dreamglass ones (though I'm confused about whether their new product is a step up or a step down from their regular product) and one or two others.


What's next? I'm going to keep flying my quadcopter and taking amazing photos and videos!!

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

While I'm sure it's a real pain in the butt .. involving the FTC would probably only muddy purely commercial waters. And for you, it would also expend a great deal of energy which might better be directed ..

Yup.

 

[anotherlab]

Doing an OEM version of Android is a non-trivial task. It's one of the reasons why most of the Android vendors seem to take forever in releasing OS updates. Android 6 was a big jump, a lot of stuff changed under the hood. Epson probably crunched the numbers and came to the conclusion that cost to updating the BT-300 to a 64 bit edition of Android would be greater than the additional sales it would bring in.

That might be why their newer AR headsets, the BT-30C and BT-35E, don't run Android. They function as display devices. The BT-30C connects to Android phones over USB-C and is $200 less than the BT-300. That works great for commercial use Android devices, but you would need a 2 port USB hub to connect the BT-30C and a Mavic controller to a phone. If they were smart, they would bundle one in with the package. And it shuts out anyone wanting to use one with an iPhone. The BT-30C does have the advantage of being able to display any app that you have on your phone.

 

[Pilgrim Pilot]

Do you happen to know what the differences are between the BT-30 and BT-35? I read their website, did some searches, but don't know why someone would buy one over the other.

 

[anotherlab]

Do you happen to know what the differences are between the BT-30 and BT-35? I read their website, did some searches, but don't know why someone would buy one over the other.

Do you happen to know what the differences are between the BT-30 and BT-35? I read their website, did some searches, but don't know why someone would buy one over the other.

Based on what is on the website, the BT-35E has the following features over the BT-30C

• Can switch between 3D and 2D mode (BT-30C is 2D only)
• Has HMDI input in addition to USB-C (BT-30C only does USB-C)
• Has a belt clip for the controller.
• Supports 1920x1080 @ 60hz, 1280 x 720 @ 60hz, 1280 x 720 @ 30hz, and 640 x 480 @ 60hz (BT-30C only does 1280 x 720)