Can you edit 4K@30fps smoothly?

[Robbyg]

I have been working with 4K@30fps in Adobe Premiere for the last three videos I have produced and even though my PC is fairly fast and has a good GPU and SSD drives it is a bear to work with 4K.

Now I know somebody is going to jump in and say oh I have a lowly XYZ computer and it works fine.
Yes it works fine until you add music and start to make numerous cuts and splices and stretches or contractions. It seems like every cut and edit makes thing slower and slower. It gets to a point where the thing is framing away as you view it. Sure it's plays fine again once it's exported into a finished product but that's when I notice little problems that I did not see when the video was Jerking during editing.

Here is an example of my situation, Ed seems to be having the same issues

So is anybody doing 30-40 cuts and still getting smooth 4K during edit playback? And what hardware are you using?

Rob

 

[Qoncussion]

My editing of 4K with plenty of video effects and audio processing runs smooth as butter...

PC Specs
* AMD FX-9590 Vishera 8-Core 4.7GHz Processor
* GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ 990FX Motherboard
* SAPPHIRE TRI-X OC Radeon R9 290X 4GB 512-Bit GDDR5 Video Card
* G.SKILL Trident X Series 1866 16GB DDR3 RAM
* CORSAIR Hydro H105 Liquid CPU Cooler
* Windows 8.1
* Vegas Pro 14

 

[Red_Raven]

I have been working with 4K@30fps in Adobe Premiere for the last three videos I have produced and even though my PC is fairly fast and has a good GPU and SSD drives it is a bear to work with 4K.

Now I know somebody is going to jump in and say oh I have a lowly XYZ computer and it works fine.
Yes it works fine until you add music and start to make numerous cuts and splices and stretches or contractions. It seems like every cut and edit makes thing slower and slower. It gets to a point where the thing is framing away as you view it. Sure it's plays fine again once it's exported into a finished product but that's when I notice little problems that I did not see when the video was Jerking during editing.

Here is an example of my situation, Ed seems to be having the same issues

So is anybody doing 30-40 cuts and still getting smooth 4K during edit playback? And what hardware are you using?

Rob

Dude, you aren't rendering proxy files in the beginning?

If not, you should. You can be editing "offline" files in 720p and simply make the adjustments stick to the originals in the final stage of the process.

Yea,the imports take quite more time. But if you use hardware rendering, it really isn't that long.... But **** it's worth it, no lag and nothing that will make the idea of a random kill sound fair.


On the subject of 4k vs HD, I sometimes use his and sometimes 4k. It depends greatly of what the subject is and what I plan to use the footage.

And I agree, both settings has its pros, but also come with alot of cons.

 

[Robbyg]

My editing of 4K with plenty of video effects and audio processing runs smooth as butter...

PC Specs
* AMD FX-9590 Vishera 8-Core 4.7GHz Processor
* GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ 990FX Motherboard
* SAPPHIRE TRI-X OC Radeon R9 290X 4GB 512-Bit GDDR5 Video Card
* G.SKILL Trident X Series 1866 16GB DDR3 RAM
* CORSAIR Hydro H105 Liquid CPU Cooler
* Windows 8.1
* Vegas Pro 14

Thanks for the reply.
You got me beat on the CPU, but I doubt that has nearly as much to do with it as the GPU.
I am using a GTX 760 with 4GB GDDR5. Your card is newer and about 50% faster, that must be the main reason. I would love to hear from some more folks before I plunk down $230 on a new video card.

Rob

 

[tcope]

Nope. I have the same thing happen (i7, aftermarket GPU board and 16GB of RAM). I've learned what things slow down 4K editing and do those last. For example, I know adding effects such as slowing or speeding up video will kill playback. So I save that for the very end (if possible). What I might also do in that situation is edit that clip seperatly and save it already edited into a new edit. That reaquires less processing power.

 

[Robbyg]

Dude, you aren't rendering proxy files in the beginning?

If not, you should. You can be editing "offline" files in 720p and simply make the adjustments stick to the originals in the final stage of the process.

Yea,the imports take quite more time. But if you use hardware rendering, it really isn't that long.... But **** it's worth it, no lag and nothing that will make the idea of a random kill sound fair.


On the subject of 4k vs HD, I sometimes use his and sometimes 4k. It depends greatly of what the subject is and what I plan to use the footage.

And I agree, both settings has its pros, but also come with alot of cons.

"Dude, you aren't rendering proxy files in the beginning?"

LOL no I am not

Thanks so much for your reply.
I have always worked with 1080P video and that gave me no problems. It's only since I got the Mavic that I started to think about using 4K and only recently did I make the switch. To be honest I never even knew about the Proxy Rendering until you mentioned it. I will now add that to my work flow, it's a life saver. Imports times are not a worry, I need to see all the frames so I can properly edit, that's the most important thing and you have really helped me with that.

Rob

 

[Robbyg]

Nope. I have the same thing happen (i7, aftermarket GPU board and 16GB of RAM). I've learned what things slow down 4K editing and do those last. For example, I know adding effects such as slowing or speeding up video will kill playback. So I save that for the very end (if possible). What I might also do in that situation is edit that clip seperatly and save it already edited into a new edit. That reaquires less processing power.

Check out what Svavar was talking about, it makes perfect sense and fixes all the problems.

Work offline using proxy media |

Rob

 

[BorisTheSpider]

You don't necessarily need to use lower resolution proxies if your PC is fast. I can't edit mavic MP4 files directly but I can transcode to cineform (or another less compressed format that is easier to work with) and edit in 4k.

 

[Red_Raven]

You don't necessarily need to use lower resolution proxies if your PC is fast. I can't edit mavic MP4 files directly but I can transcode to cineform (or another less compressed format that is easier to work with) and edit in 4k.

of course, that is 100% right. but as I see it, 720p 0r 1080 will always be alot easier to work with, so Ive never even tried it like you talk about, just changing the codecs. Is there anything one would benefit from that? shorter rebndering / import times maybe ?

 

[BorisTheSpider]

of course, that is 100% right. but as I see it, 720p 0r 1080 will always be alot easier to work with, so Ive never even tried it like you talk about, just changing the codecs. Is there anything one would benefit from that? shorter rebndering / import times maybe ?

By changing to a less compressed codec you work with files that are much easier to play back since each frame doesn't depend on other frames in the same way, so it's much lighter work for the PC when you're skipping around, time remapping, adding colour grading etc.

The highly compressed files are great for final output, but for editing they are very hard on the PC and slow stuff down.

In my case, the mp4s straight out of the drone bring my fast, modern PC to a standstill and make editing impossible, but I have no problems with the same 4k resolution once they are transcoded to cineform. Only issue is, they're huge - like 10x the size, so if I come home with 20gb on the SD card I end up with 200GB of transcoded files for editing, but I then throw them away once the edit is complete so it's no big deal.

I agree that editing 1080 proxies is also a good solution. On a slower machine a combination of the two is best - 1080 proxies in an uncompressed codec is the best of all worlds in terms of making the editing process less intensive on the PC

 

[CashCache]

Check out what Svavar was talking about, it makes perfect sense and fixes all the problems.

Work offline using proxy media |

Rob

Don't laugh, but I use a Microsoft Surface Book to do my editing. I don't plan to do this forever, but it works for now. I was able to reduce the quality on playback to get something that works, but this Proxy setting may be a game-changer. I can't wait to give it a try. So much to learn!

 

[tcope]

Check out what Svavar was talking about, it makes perfect sense and fixes all the problems.

Work offline using proxy media |

I don't used Premier Pro, I used PowerDirector 15. They call them Shadow Files. I do use them but have the same slow response once I start in-depth editing of 4k.

 

[Robbyg]

Don't laugh, but I use a Microsoft Surface Book to do my editing. I don't plan to do this forever, but it works for now. I was able to reduce the quality on playback to get something that works, but this Proxy setting may be a game-changer. I can't wait to give it a try. So much to learn!

I am going to be giving it a try shortly. I agree it should be a game changer, I will report back my results but this could take a day or two since I am juggling work and family now.

 

[SteelFlyer]

Remember too if you're using Premiere Pro you can select the playback resolution in the Program Monitor such as full, 1/2, 1/4 etc. That way you can still work with native files but with smooth playback.

 

[Robbyg]

Only issue is, they're huge - like 10x the size, so if I come home with 20gb on the SD card I end up with 200GB of transcoded files for editing, but I then throw them away once the edit is complete so it's no big deal.

200GB, that seems like your trading one problem for another!
I have a 1TB SSD for my main drive, it has about 600GB free for using as a scratch pad area for my open projects. It could run down pretty fast using that method. Even with an SSD I still think 40GB which would be an average flights worth of uncompressed video is going to really chug along slowly. I will take your word that Drive speed will trump GPU speed but it seems like a trade off.

Also for those not using SSD for a work area it seems like a non starter.

The second issue is throwing away the files. I gather your keeping the originals in compressed format, but don't you run into issues if you want to re-edit the footage and need to reconvert them? I got a feeling Adobe Premiere would kick out some kind of source error when I open the project if it happens that something is not exactly the same as the one I threw out.

Rob

 

[CashCache]

Remember too if you're using Premiere Pro you can select the playback resolution in the Program Monitor such as full, 1/2, 1/4 etc. That way you can still work with native files but with smooth playback.

This is exactly the method I have been using. I'm curious if the Proxy method works any better.

 

[Red_Raven]

200GB, that seems like your trading one problem for another!
I have a 1TB SSD for my main drive, it has about 600GB free for using as a scratch pad area for my open projects. It could run down pretty fast using that method. Even with an SSD I still think 40GB which would be an average flights worth of uncompressed video is going to really chug along slowly. I will take your word that Drive speed will trump GPU speed but it seems like a trade off.

Also for those not using SSD for a work area it seems like a non starter.

The second issue is throwing away the files. I gather your keeping the originals in compressed format, but don't you run into issues if you want to re-edit the footage and need to reconvert them? I got a feeling Adobe Premiere would kick out some kind of source error when I open the project if it happens that something is not exactly the same as the one I threw out.

Rob

If you'd wanna work in the project later, after having deleted the proxy. It would cause no trouble at all, you'd just have to render the proxy file again, that's not a problem, in fact the opinion is so available in the software that I can be sure about that being what you are expected to do.

 

[Red_Raven]

I don't used Premier Pro, I used PowerDirector 15. They call them Shadow Files. I do use them but have the same slow response once I start in-depth editing of 4k.

Are you sure that you don't have to enable it or something. Like tell the software if you're going to work in the originals or the shadow files?

This got me a little confused St first. It isn't enough to create the proxy in premiere. You'll also have to toggle between the proxy and originals.

I simply cannot belive that this doesn't change things dramatically for you, if shadow files are the same as proxies in premier.

 

[Robbyg]

Remember too if you're using Premiere Pro you can select the playback resolution in the Program Monitor such as full, 1/2, 1/4 etc. That way you can still work with native files but with smooth playback.

Yeah I tried that but its like needing 4 horses to pull the cart and even at 1/8 setting I have the power of only two.

Rob

 

[Robbyg]

Svavar can I create Proxy files for an existing project or will that not work? If it wont this is only going to be good for me with new stuff. I already have three 4K projects in various stages of editing and I would hate to start over.

Rob