UAV close calls - not always the drone operators fault....

[westonmavicpilot]

So I had a close call with a couple of helicopters late last week. I live on the coast, nowhere near an airport, military base or no fly zone. I regularly fly from my back garden and around my neighborhood, always within VLOS (even if I sometimes lose track of where the tiny spec in the sky is) and only to a height of 400ft. I live on a hill which overlooks my neighborhood, the local town and the land leading down to the sea front a mile or so away - all in all a great place to fly safely. In the summer I get the occasional light aircraft, heli or powered paraglider going over but they are way above where I am flying and I can see and hear them coming.

Last week however I was at around 400ft above me and one road away, still had perfect sight of the Mavic when I heard a sudden and increasing roar of motors / rotors. Literally before I could do anything or locate where the noise was coming from 2 Chinook helis (possibly mk6 which looks slightly smaller than earlier models) came thundering past - I kid you not, these a$$***** were no more than 250ft off the deck, travelling in close formation and moving fast. They came right over the top of me, and then skimmed their way down the hill and across some fields until they hit the beach where I can only describe them as doing a little dance with each other before shooting off along the coast.

I wish I was a more experienced pilot and could have got footage but I wasn't recording at the time and went into full blown panic mode as soon as I realized their proximity to me - only 150 feet away. By the time they had passed and I got it together to point in the right direction and record, they were gone. I have no idea where they came from or what kind of exercise they were on but I feel sure they couldn't have been authorized to be that low across a built up area
The local online chat groups were alive with chat about it later in the day, a horse panicked and ran into a barb wire fence, a car crashed into another and someones mother was taken by surprise, fell over and needed hospital treatment, oh and my cat came across my garden at about 30mph and puffed up to twice its size nearly taking the cat flap out as she went through it... sounds funny but not that funny at all.

For my part I just wonder what the situation would have been had I been 150 feet closer and directly in their path resulting in a collision. Obviously it would have been Chinook 1 - Mavic 0....but what if something more serious had happened, who would have been at fault?

 

[Lake_Flyer]

but what if something more serious had happened, who would have been at fault?

YOU.

Model aircraft always have to give rights of way to any manned aircraft. In every case, no matter if the aircraft is flying to low. You simply never have any right at all compared to manned planes.
Heli's are allowed to fly lower than airplanes. You didn't check any notams of course? But it doesn't matter. You are always responsible as RC pilot.

 

[westonmavicpilot]

YOU.

Model aircraft always have to give rights of way to any manned aircraft. In every case, no matter if the aircraft is flying to low. You simply never have any right at all compared to manned planes.
Heli's are allowed to fly lower than airplanes. You didn't check any notams of course? But it doesn't matter. You are always responsible as RC pilot.

I'm sure you're correct, it would have been me as the drone operator who would be blamed, however these things were so low and moving so fast that I literally had zero time to react before I saw them, they appeared over the rooftop of the houses across the road, were overhead and then gone before I even had time to think about what to do. I completely agree that it's my responsibility not to put anyone at risk by flying higher than 400ft or miles away out of sight where I can't see whats coming at me from different angles but this kind of flying by military aircraft is irresponsible to the extreme across built up suburban areas. It's not like there's a base anywhere near where you might expect those kind of maneuvers - first time I've seen anything like it in 6 years of living there.

And no I didn't check Notams - however I severely doubt that military maneuvers of this kind would have been listed accurately anyway - if at all. I can only describe the way they were flying, low, fast and then swinging around each other over the sea front as a$$ing around.

 

[Simmo]

Nup, not if there's nothing in the way of NOTAMs. The Heli pilot should obey his floor limit, and that is it! Should there be an emergency, then different matter.

 

[lrsn]

In the USA helicopters have no floor limit!

 

[Simmo]

In the USA helicopters have no floor limit!

Wow! Really?! That makes for potentially risky RC flying?!

 

[sar104]

Wow! Really?! That makes for potentially risky RC flying?!

Helicopters may operate lower than 500 ft AGL but in this case it does not seem like responsible flying. I'd have reported that incident.

§91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.

Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:

(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.

(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.

(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—

(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA; and

(2) A powered parachute or weight-shift-control aircraft may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (c) of this section.

 

[princeofthehouse]

it sounds like two cowboy pilots mucking around.

400ft is far too low for them let alone nearly half that and over a residential area.

Based purely on description of the area layout...
Now in event of contact between your drone and theirs while people would be quick to blame you it certainly sounds like their craft was out of reasonable VLOS and if they were operating at high speed and obscenely low height you would have a reasonable chance in regards to defending your side if became a issue.

At the end of the day as long as you can show you always take reasonable steps to follow the rules and guidelines then if a incident occurs you give yourself a good ground to stand on.

One day that case will happen, should be interesting

 

[checkssc]

it sounds like two cowboy pilots mucking around.

400ft is far too low for them let alone nearly half that and over a residential area.

Based purely on description of the area layout...
Now in event of contact between your drone and theirs while people would be quick to blame you it certainly sounds like their craft was out of reasonable VLOS and if they were operating at high speed and obscenely low height you would have a reasonable chance in regards to defending your side if became a issue.

At the end of the day as long as you can show you always take reasonable steps to follow the rules and guidelines then if a incident occurs you give yourself a good ground to stand on.

One day that case will happen, should be interesting

Now I have to admit in my reserves days flying out of Clearwater Air Station, we would cruise the beaches looking at the ladies but always off shore and never above the people. We would go as low as we could, maybe 100', and log the flight as low altitude search training. As to what we were searching for....well I'll let you figure that one out.

 

[princeofthehouse]

Now I have to admit in my reserves days flying out of Clearwater Air Station, we would cruise the beaches looking at the ladies but always off shore and never above the people. We would go as low as we could, maybe 100', and log the flight as low altitude search training. As to what we were searching for....well I'll let you figure that one out.

I suspect you were "for training" trying to see if you could spot any huge "peaks" and interesting "valleys" that might catch your eye.

but coming from a RAF family I sort of have a good perspective on the sort of antics young pilots like to get away with.