12mp 12 bit raw or 48mp 10 bit raw

[Chapperz]

The dji mini 3 Pro takes 12mp shots at 12 bit raw and 48mp at 10 bit raw. Is the extra resolution at 48mp worth it over 12mp shots at 12 bit raw, upscaled in Lightroom to 24mp, given that 24mp will allow for prints at pretty much any size?

 

[PanoVolo]

The sensor is quad Bayer, which means that it is really 12 MPix optically, with 4 pixels of the same color in each quadrant binned together. There are 48 million photosites, but due to the configuration of them, it is really only a12 MPix Bayer sensor. The quad Bayer design has other purposes, such as on-sensor HDR and better noise suppression, but optically there is no 48 Mpix.

(you can also argue that even 12 MPix is "fake" as there is only 1 blue and 1 red photosites in each 2x2 RGGB element, and the red and blue values are interpolated during demosaicing process.) - so really it's a 3 MPix sensor in red and blue channels.

So personally I would stick with 12 MPix, There are may be specific scenes and conditions in which 48 MPix DNG, carefully demosiaced and post-processed, can bring (marginal) sharpness improvements compared to 12 MPix, but mostly all you are going to see is more noise.

 

[Chapperz]

The sensor is quad Bayer, which means that it is really 12 MPix optically, with 4 pixels of the same color in each quadrant binned together. There are 48 million photosites, but due to the configuration of them, it is really only a12 MPix Bayer sensor. The quad Bayer design has other purposes, such as on-sensor HDR and better noise suppression, but optically there is no 48 Mpix.

(you can also argue that even 12 MPix is "fake" as there is only 1 blue and 1 red photosites in each 2x2 RGGB element, and the red and blue values are interpolated during demosaicing process.) - so really it's a 3 MPix sensor in red and blue channels.

So personally I would stick with 12 MPix, There are may be specific scenes and conditions in which 48 MPix DNG, carefully demosiaced and post-processed, can bring (marginal) sharpness improvements compared to 12 MPix, but mostly all you are going to see is more noise.

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[PanoVolo]

there was a reply here from another member of the forum, who raised the correct point. When operating in the non-binned mode, it's true that you have 48Mpix of individual photosites, that contribute the information. However, there are some things to consider:
1. In the non-binned, 48 MPix mode, the extra information is in the "luma" not "chroma" - you have extra brightness information, but not extra color information. To the point, in the video above the resolution targets are black and white and therefore you do have extra information in 48 mPix mode. But the color information ("chroma") still comes from 12 MPix photosite configuraton - so colors are smeared over 48 MPix in much wider patches.
2. When operating in the non-binned mode, the small photosites will produce more noise, so the quality of the data will be lower than when operating in the binned mode.

So as I said, in some situations you may get a marginal improvement from 48Mpix mode, but the conditions need to be right for that - brightly illuminated target, so the noise from small photosites is less of a factor, and high contrast scene where brightness/contrast information (luma) is more important than the accuracy of color information (chroma).

Excellent and very comprehensive video on the subject though.

 

[tls3601]

Let’s not forget sensor size, as a photographer this is huge as it relates to image quality and of course ability in low light as well.

 

[Chapperz]

Let’s not forget sensor size, as a photographer this is huge as it relates to image quality and of course ability in low light as well.

After looking into it, 12mp is clearly the way to go... I was just hoping to be able to print larger than say A3.

Incidentally, what's the largest you've printed with a 12mp camera and what was the result like?

 

[tls3601]

Well most cell phones are 12MP. I would think the 12 MP camera with the larger sensor would likely produce the higher quality image. If I wanted a very sharp image I would probably go no bigger than 4X6” with 12MP camera. But everyone’s standards are most likely different.

 

[Chapperz]

Well most cell phones are 12MP. I would think the 12 MP camera with the larger sensor would likely produce the higher quality image. If I wanted a very sharp image I would probably go no bigger than 4X6” with 12MP camera. But everyone’s standards are most likely different.

4x6 inch????? That's way more than 360dpi no?

 

[PanoVolo]

Panoramas is one possible way to up the resolution, providing the field of view and distance from subject can work for your purposes. 3x3 "wide angle" is probably the easiest way to bump the resolution.

 

[Chapperz]

Panoramas is one possible way to up the resolution, providing the field of view and distance from subject can work for your purposes. 3x3 "wide angle" is probably the easiest way to bump the resolution.

If I used the pano wide mode... Would that be like using a full frame 36mp with a wide angle lens do ya think?

I I rightly recommend, a image from a lens takes up less of the frame on a full frame than a crop... Soooo would it be a similar result?

 

[PanoVolo]

it would make the field of view proportionally wider. There is also about 30% overlap between the images. Without cropping, with 3x3 pano you will get roughly 36 MPix, and with cropping it will be ~27 MPix, so a pretty healthy bump from a single frame. It is similar in a way to how lens operate between full frame and cropped sensor cameras, yes.

 

[Chapperz]

Panoramas is one possible way to up the resolution, providing the field of view and distance from subject can work for your purposes. 3x3 "wide angle" is probably the easiest way to bump the resolution.

Ahhhhhh.... I checked and a wide pano turns out to be just over 36mp... If my calculations are correct, it over laps by a 3rd when taking the images... I'm thinking that, a wide pano on the mini 3 Pro is a similar result to a 36mp full frame shot... My thinking was that I'd have to get closer with the wide pano to get the same shot at a higher resolution but, if you can fit more into a shot with a full frame sensor.. I'm thinking at the same distance, the wide pano would be similar to taking the same shot with a full frame camera with the same lense... Given that the mini 3 Pro sensor is 2/3 and the overlap on the pano is 1/3... Or I'm waaayyy off.

 

[Chapperz]

it would make the field of view proportionally wider. There is also about 30% overlap between the images. Without cropping, with 3x3 pano you will get roughly 36 MPix, and with cropping it will be ~27 MPix, so a pretty healthy bump from a single frame. It is similar in a way to how lens operate between full frame and cropped sensor cameras, yes.

Yup... I'm going to have to test but... I'm thinking that, the result from a wide pano with the dji mini 3 Pro 1/1.3 cropped to around 20mp will be similar to a single shot taken with a 1" sensor on the air 2s from the same distance

 

[PanoVolo]

if you are talking about field of view - no. Both Mini3 and Air have similar focal length - ~24 mm equivalent. Pano will be wider - roughly 20 mm equivalent - from either camera.

 

[Chapperz]

if you are talking about field of view - no. Both Mini3 and Air have similar focal length - ~24 mm equivalent. Pano will be wider - roughly 20 mm equivalent - from either camera.

Ahhhh..... I was thinking that from the same distance, based on the the sensor sizes.... As in a mini 3 Pro wide pano, which has a 3rd over lap, cropped, as in 1/3 removed should have a similar image, albeit a little more resolution.

My logic being that, with the same lense, to fill the frame of a full frame sensor as much as a crop you'd have to move closer... Seeing as we're talking 3rds here I was thinking that maybe a wide pano would be similar to a 36mp full frame or when cropped a 1"...

Yup... 12mp wide pano shots all the way...

 

[PanoVolo]

Ahhhh..... I was thinking that from the same distance, based on the the sensor sizes.... As in a mini 3 Pro wide pano, which has a 3rd over lap, cropped, as in 1/3 removed should have a similar image, albeit a little more resolution.

My logic being that, with the same lense, to fill the frame of a full frame sensor as much as a crop you'd have to move closer... Seeing as we're talking 3rds here I was thinking that maybe a wide pano would be similar to a 36mp full frame or when cropped a 1"...

Yup... 12mp wide pano shots all the way...

yes but they are different lens designed to produce roughly the same focal length on both drones even though sensor sizes are different.

As for panos - we are running the public beta now, if you want to try Panovolo for stitching -https://www.panovolo.com/get-panovolo/. I think we provide the easiest workflow for creating drone panoramas out there.

 

[Chapperz]

yes but they are different lens designed to produce roughly the same focal length on both drones even though sensor sizes are different.

As for panos - we are running the public beta now, if you want to try Panovolo for stitching -https://www.panovolo.com/get-panovolo/. I think we provide the easiest workflow for creating drone panoramas out there.

Ahhhhhh.... So I'd have to move closer.

Basically, at 90 metres, if I wanted the same shot, I'd have to move 30 metres closer, take a pano and crop off 33%.

I'd then end up with a shot similar to the air 2s but with 4mp more?

 

[PanoVolo]

yes pretty much. Not sure why you need to crop that much, you can aim to use as much of that 3x3 fov as possible to fill it with your desired framing.

 

[Chapperz]

yes pretty much. Not sure why you need to crop that much, you can aim to use as much of that 3x3 fov as possible to fill it with your desired framing.

Yeah good point.... I suppose, really, if I get the right distance from the subject, I could effectively create a full frame equivalent with a wide pano... My logic is that, if I wanted a subject to fill the frame the same amount as a crop, with the same lens, I'd have to move closer.

The mini 3 Pro is a 22mm full frame equivalent so, I can 1) move in close enough so the subject fills the frame like say a 50mm lens on a full frame sensor and have a 12mp image or 2) move in closer still so. The subject fills the frame like a 100mm lense, take a wide pano and end up with a shots that's like a 36mp shot taken with a 50mm lens.
If that makes sense.

Obviously my focal lengths are off but I can work that out later.

One other thing that struck me just now is that, normally, a f1.7 aperture has a very shallow depth of field, but with the dji mini 3 Pro is very deep for whatever reason. My logic tells me that that, with the deep depth of field the mini 3 Pro has, at the right distance, using the wide pano mode I should be able to get some good 36mp full frame equivalent shots.

It's just a case of learning how close to the subject I need to be and putting up with the extra post work (merging).

That should work right?

 

[PanoVolo]

yes you got it, but you will need to experiment and see what works best. Panoramas can be tricky, they are not the same as static images, so some practice will be needed. But the general idea is correct. Watch out for moving things, and don't get too close to subject as panoramas work best with near-infinity focus distances.