5 Miles From Airport

[SKentBrown]

In USA - "All" aviation distances are nautical. Exception is for visibility - is reported in Statue miles.

 

[Gecko10]

The 5 statute mile limit is because in the US airspace system the controlled airspace designated to an airport that goes to the ground (1 circle class D airports or the bottom circle of the class C airports) is a standard 5 miles from geographical center of airport. The shape and size of class B airspace that goes to the ground is bigger and tailored to the airport. Some class D and C airports have non-standard airspace shapes and sizes. You need to check a current VFR sectional chart. They expire every 56 days. I like using the online sectional charts at skyvector.com, but I'm honestly not sure if they are legal, strictly speaking.

**** fine answer, sir.

 

[mannok77]

In USA - "All" aviation distances are nautical. Exception is for visibility - is reported in Statue miles.

That is typically true. When I first went through flight training class D airspace was 4.4 NM, which is 5 SM. I have seen UAS training material referring to statute miles. I assumed that is where they got it and they just stuck with SM because that is what the general public is used to dealing with.

I just looked up airspace in the AIM. It is describing the bottom level of class C airspace as 5 NM and class D airspace as 4 NM. So it seems class D went from 4.4 NM to 4 NM over the years. And I believe I did remember class C wrong. I think it was 5 NM from the beginning when new airspace came about (around 1988?). But these are general dimensions. Class D airspace can be tailored for a specific airport, changing its shape and diameter.

The only airspace I can remember that used statute miles was an FSS area (Flight Service Station). They had a radius of 10 SM. I just looked up those and they are now being referred to in "miles". Now, historically, a reference to "miles" was taken to mean statue miles. I can see how people get confused.

 

[SKentBrown]

The only airspace I can remember that used statute miles was an FSS area (Flight Service Station). They had a radius of 10 SM. I just looked up those and they are now being referred to in "miles". Now, historically, a reference to "miles" was taken to mean statue miles. I can see how people get confused.

I have no idea what you mean by an FSS Area. That term does not appear in the AIM. An FSS provides traffic advisory when an FSS is located at an airport without an operating tower. That is not controlled airspace. About the only place to find those these days in the USA are in Alaska. See 4-1-3 in the AIM.

Since all distances displayed in modern aircraft are in NM (DME, GPS, FMS, etc.) would not make sense to have any distance in aviation any where in the world except to be NM. Again, the exception is visibility is reported in SM and/or Feet (for RVR values) or Meters in some metric countries.

 

[mannok77]

Of course it's in the AIM and has been for at least 25 years. Never claimed it was controlled airspace. Not sure if they use the term "area" currently or not. I can't comment on the history of what makes sense in the aviation industry. If you wish to call a FSS over radio you should be within 10 SM. In the industry, they can be referred to as area, airspace, etc. This has no relevance if you are only a UAS pilot. Just providing some background on the US airspace and aviation system.

 

[SKentBrown]

Of course it's in the AIM and has been for at least 25 years.

Where in the AIM?

I have been a pilot only since 1977 (ATP, CFI/II/MEI). Distance is always NM (Except visibility)

If you wish to call a FSS over radio you should be within 10 SM

Nope, I have called and talked to FSS from 100's of miles away - it WAS called FlightWatch, now discontinued. But can still call FSS from 100's of miles since LockheedMartin is closing most FSS locations to centralize. I may be flying a little higher, in the FL410 - 470 range.

 

[mannok77]

Table 4-1-1. It is referenced in section 4-1-9 in the FAA's online version of the AIM. It's one place where "10 miles" is referenced. I don't have any of my old paper manuals here with me.

Interesting about FSS's recently. I haven't flown GA in a while. It is kind of nit-picky. I'll give you that. I'll tell you this. Ever heard of the National Intercollegiate Flying Association? It's true, they are not the FAA, but they did comprise of over 80 collegiate aviation schools and worked closely with the FAA. They ran (and still do) competitions. One of the events is basically knowing every nit-picky thing in the FAR/AIM concerning general aviation flying. And if that question came up in a test, 10 SM was the correct answer. I mean, it would make more logical sense to use NM, but that doesn't explain the different terms the FAA decided to use within the FAR/AIM over the years. Do you have any old FAR/AIMs which use the term "nautical mile" concerning FSS's? Then again, if you have a passage like that referenced in the 70s or 80s and it was changed in the 90s, what is a nit-picker to think? Or do you know of a passage in the FAR/AIM that said all distances are in nautical miles except vis? We were all about not assuming things, no matter how much more sense one thing made over another. It may even seem petty, but there was and is a lot of smart people in the organization and they sometimes had to test on really tiny pieces of information to weed out competitors.

You certainly have been flying longer than me. I would appreciate any further FAA documents, advisory circulars or other reference materials that could indicate something more concrete. I am genuinely curious about it.

 

[SKentBrown]

Table 4-1-1. It is referenced in section 4-1-9 in the FAA's online version of the AIM. It's one place where "10 miles" is referenced.

That "10 miles" is nautical miles. Again, no way in an aircraft to determine Statue Miles. But then it only makes about a 15% difference in distance.

TAF, METAR or MOS us Statue miles as in 6SM visibility. Also distances such as "in vicinity" in a weather report means 5 SM. Go figure.

ICAO sets recommended international standards and the FAA has subscribed to many of the ICAO Standards. Unfortunately, ICAO charges for all of their documents, but many countries post parts. Units of measure is in Annex 5 Amendment 17 here is a link to a PDF - search nautical Annex 5.00, Amendment 17

 

[ac0j]

So then, what’s the verdict? Does the OP need to call in a “flight plan” to fly his tiny toy in his back yard 5 statute miles away from an airport or does it depend on a real pilots definition of miles ?
Just fly it already! Stay in VLOS and under 400 “nautical” feet and let these people argue here!

 

[SKentBrown]

So then, what’s the verdict? Does the OP need to call in a “flight plan” to fly his tiny toy in his back yard 5 statute miles away from an airport or does it depend on a real pilots definition of miles ?

Law Changed 10/5/2018, 5 Mile rule from an Airport no longer applies to "Recreational" model aircraft.

Now based on Airspace. So the answer is: It depends, which airport and what is the class of airspace at the surface to 400AGL were the flight will occur.

 

[mannok77]

Ya, ignore the comparing brain pan exchange between me and the other guy lol. It's all interpretation if it's not in writing. And it had nothing to do with drones.

The thing is, I believe, the FAA always meant to have protection of actual designated airspace. I think they just said "5 miles" because it was easy and covered the majority of airports with controlled airspace that touched the ground. Majority meaning class D and C airports. If you are near a class B, be very careful. I am really not sure on what is going on with class E or G airports. Yes, I know the class is not the airport, but the airspace that services it lol. That's another bag of worms as airports do, technically, have their own categories (ignore that UAS guys). I mean, class G airspace is uncontrolled and there are many airports within that. Seems weird to me for a drone pilot to have to notify the administrator of a class G airport when a pilot manning a real airplane does not and may land there. Perhaps, in the future, you will need to have a radio to announce your presence.

The point is we will all have to get comfortable with aviation sectional charts. Or the apps that provide current airspace data. Remember, published charts and airport info updates every 56 days. I have already encountered services that are out of date and had wrong info after about 3 months. The chart apps really need to have a published date so we know what is current. EVEN THEN you need to check NOTAMs. These are up to the minute changes and alterations. Sometimes they add TFRs (temporary flight restrictions). I know this is getting crazy to pure UAS guys. This is a taste of what pilots have to do. I suggest using several apps and websites including B4UFly, AirMap, UAV Forecast, skyvector.com, and Skyward. I have seen the B4UFly app and skyvector website overlay TFR's very quickly. For example, military aircraft training over a large area for the next 10 days. Remember to check altitudes. The TFR near mean begins at 2500 feet, so it wouldn't affect drone flying.

Keep this in mind: Any airport could have a custom controlled airspace designated to the ground. You never quite know where it starts and ends unless you check. Don't assume "5 miles" means anything concerning real airspace designations.

 

[mannok77]

Once thing we will have to pay attention to is class E and G airports. I am still not 100% on what we have to do. And with the new FAA Authorization Bill that very well may change. As I read it before, if you are within 5 miles of any airport, you must notify. Well, 5 miles within an uncontrolled field in class G airspace seems problematic. You may have to contact the airport, even though you only get voice mail.

And class E extensions for class D and C airports. This is huge. These are one of the only situations where class E extends to the ground. Class E is "controlled" and G "uncontrolled". Note: All airspace that is not class G is controlled. E and A is the only "controlled" airspace not designated to a specific airport.

We don't need any language that banketly covers all "controlled" airspace as off limits. That means you may be 10 miles from a class D airport, but the class E extension is there, preventing you from flying. All class E is "controlled". For now, class E extensions don't require prior authorization (even for 107). I hope it stays that way.

 

[2nckayakers]

Measurement is from the geographical center of the airport. I had a flight instructor tell me one time to just measure from the windsock and you would be ok. As far as SM vs NM, it is SM when you are looking at the FAA rules concerning drones. BUT all this is going to become irrelevant as the 2018 reorganization rules changed it to where you can fly anywhere within class G airspace. So for instance in my case I am 3.5 miles from a regional airport. That airport is class E to surface just over the immediate airport which is 1.5 miles from center. So under the new rules I don't have to notify the airport to fly. Now that doesn't mean that today you can do that unless you have your 107, because as soon as the President signed it into law, the FAA said to carry on as you currently are until they actually implement the new rules. SO you still have to notify the airport if you are within 5 miles.

Now all this conversation begs a question, when the new rules are in place will DJI update their maps and NFZs.

 

[Turn11]

Well, in my case my backyard sets right on the borderline, or inside it, depending where the 5 miles is measured from. Yes a few hundred yards does make a difference in my case

If you try to put your AC up you will see if you are in a NFZ or a restricted (period) zone
if you are in a NFZ you can get an exemption (does NOT include the RED zone.

Here is the link to self unlock, you will need your AC serial number.
Edit: easier to do on the PC.

Here are detailed step-by-step instructions.