A New US Bill for a Proposed Law: Drone Integration and Zoning Act

[Thoraldus]

View attachment 83847
Hi!

What's wrong with this image? ;-)

The FLIR camera and the person using it are on the same side of the window. We're seeing the IR reflecting off the inside of the window.

 

[sar104]

I saw a Raytheon demo at a remote sensing conference where they had a unit that could pick up people behind interior walls. It was too big for drones but could be used in helicopters. The image was good enough that you could see a blob where people were sitting, but moving people were not detected.

Those are not working at the normal IR imaging frequencies - most are microwave radars.

I've use FLIR that works well enough to see through walls. Granted the bargain price for one is about $50k and it also requires a signficant temp difference between inside/outside.

Any reasonable wall is fully opaque to near infrared. That had to be microwave frequencies too.

 

[KB9Radio]

I didn't think much of Mike Lee to begin with, now even less. There's so many other things they could focus on, but this is an issue. It's a flying camera, big deal, everyone has a camera now days. Maybe in some areas it's a problem, in my area you can't find anybody with a drone, speak less about ever see one.

 

[AMann]

Those are not working at the normal IR imaging frequencies - most are microwave radars.


Any reasonable wall is fully opaque to near infrared. That had to be microwave frequencies too.

No, they were thermal. I know the difference, microwave gives a much clearer image and is sensing direct backscatter from inside a room. The one I saw only worked with stationary bodies and was detectIng heat differences on the wall surface and showed hotter stationary objects behind it as a blob. It was a unit being advertised as for fire detection.

 

[brett8883]

I didn't think much of Mike Lee to begin with, now even less. There's so many other things they could focus on, but this is an issue. It's a flying camera, big deal, everyone has a camera now days. Maybe in some areas it's a problem, in my area you can't find anybody with a drone, speak less about ever see one.

I agree. I haven’t even seen news arrivals about this being an actual issue in the US. I’ve read some about it being a problem in the UK but not any here. I’m sure if you dig enough you’ll find one but it’s not a widespread issue.

 

[AMann]

What's wrong with this image? ;-)

The FLIR camera and the person using it are on the same side of the window. We're seeing the IR reflecting off the inside of the window.

There's orher examples but its going off topic now. I will try to find out what unit we saw (it was a while ago) and some true images through windows as well (I just grabbed that one and you are right, the guy is holding his FLIR unit!!). Will put it on a different post too.

 

[brett8883]

One huge issue with this bill is gonna be for real estate photography. Imagine if you had to get permission from all the neighbors before doing a real estate shoot. It would never happen or the cost of doing it will go up so much due to the time and planning required that it will price out using drones for that purpose except on very large swaths of land.

I know if I was gonna do a real estate shoot I would want to see the boundaries of the property and that is always a challenge not only to get but to interpret.

 

[Thomas B]

If you want to help, forward the link for Rep. Lee’s Bill to as many other drone websites and pilots as you can, get them involved also.

Sen. Lee Introduces Drone Integration and Zoning Act

WASHINGTON – Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) introduced the Drone Integration and Zoning Act Wednesday, a bill to establish a regulatory framework for drones based on the principles of local governance and cooperative federalism. “The FAA cannot feasibly or efficiently oversee millions of drones in every...

www.lee.senate.gov

Find Your Representative | house.gov

www.house.gov

Sent my letter, and asked for contact rather than just leave it to the whims of aides.

 

[sar104]

No, they were thermal. I know the difference, microwave gives a much clearer image and is sensing direct backscatter from inside a room. The one I saw only worked with stationary bodies and was detectIng heat differences on the wall surface and showed hotter stationary objects behind it as a blob. It was a unit being advertised as for fire detection.

Okay, fair enough - so it depended on something causing actual temperature differences via heat conduction through the wall. I wouldn't classify that as real-time imaging of objects inside the structure.

 

[AMann]

One huge issue with this bill is gonna be for real estate photography. Imagine if you had to get permission from all the neighbors before doing a real estate shoot. It would never happen or the cost of doing it will go up so much due to the time and planning required that it will price out using drones for that purpose except on very large swaths of land.

I know if I was gonna do a real estate shoot I would want to see the boundaries of the property and that is always a challenge not only to get but to interpret.

If it does pass then zoom cameras may help, but you will be above 200’. But then the town or city can also pass an ordinance that drones can’t fly anywhere under 200’ , including all open spaces within its limits as well. That’s why this bill is such a bad idea.

 

[Thomas B]

If it does pass then zoom cameras may help, but you will be above 200’. But then the town or city can also pass an ordinance that drones can’t fly anywhere under 200’ , including all open spaces within its limits as well. That’s why this bill is such a bad idea.

Even worse, In Arizona the state has specifically reserved regulation of drones to itself. So not only do we see a constitutional conflict, but we see FAA regs supercended by nongovernmental entities like HOAs who would be able to extend their authority to those who don’t live within them and so have no recourse or representation there.
Contact your U.S. congressman and recommend opposing Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT)’s Drone Integration and Zoning Act.

 

[SkyDogII]

There’s no way the faa is going to grant an hoa An exemption for them to prohibit drones from flying over their airspace.
I know only one entity, and that’s Disneyland in Anaheim ,CA that has an airspace restriction. Wonder how much that cost?

 

[AMann]

There’s no way the faa is going to grant an hoa An exemption for them to prohibit drones from flying over their airspace.
I know only one entity, and that’s Disneyland in Anaheim ,CA that has an airspace restriction. Wonder how much that cost?

It’s not FAA’s call if the bill is passed by the house (edit: and prez) allowing local governments, including HOA’s, to prohibit it within 200 feet AGL.

This can also include park and school districts also. The current lawsuit mentioned in that thread against the open space district may become void if the bill is passed too.

 

[DroningOn]

It’s not FAA’s call if the bill is passed by the house allowing local governments, including HOA’s, to prohibit it within 200 feet AGL

Not to nitpick but for any bill to get to the president’s desk for signature, it must be voted on and pass BOTH houses of Congress. The house and the senate....
To get to the point where a bill is actually voted on it must first pass through a bewilderingly complex labyrinth of steps. Committee assignment, hearings, GAO scoring, floor debate, reconciliation committee, more floor debate, another vote in both houses etc etc. This “bill” literally hasn’t made its first baby step.

 

[SkyDogII]

I believe local governments already CAN regulate drones over their airspace. There are several cities here in CA that already restrict flying in parts of the city. For instance some of the beach cities don’t allow you to fly along specific areas of the beach. Another city doesn’t allow you to fly over their marina. Do you realize how many HOA’s are in los angels/ Orange County area? How hard that’s going to be to enforce. How much coding and updates DJI will need to make. You thought it took a long time for LAANCE and drone zone to be available for recreational pilots.

There are also several cities that have adopted vlos and standard guidelines/rules to fly. Burbank is one such city. However most of the city is a no fly zone due to the airport and you need LAANCE for most of the remainder of the city.

 

[Gryphon962]

I believe local governments already CAN regulate drones over their airspace. There are several cities here in CA that already restrict flying in parts of the city. For instance some of the beach cities don’t allow you to fly along specific areas of the beach. Another city doesn’t allow you to fly over their marina. Do you realize how many HOA’s are in los angels/ Orange County area? How hard that’s going to be to enforce. How much coding and updates DJI will need to make. You thought it took a long time for LAANCE and drone zone to be available for recreational pilots.

There are also several cities that have adopted vlos and standard guidelines/rules to fly. Burbank is one such city. However most of the city is a no fly zone due to the airport and you need LAANCE for most of the remainder of the city.

Hi - I'm in Palos Verdes. Despite SoCal cities attempts to restrict everything, all they are actually allowed to control is activity on land. So laws that regulate where you can take off, land, and operate a drone are legit, ones that seek to regulate flight are not. But of course its best to not get into a discussion with LEOs on that until youve done your homework.

So, when in doubt about the meaning of a cities laws, I email the police community relations officer and quote the code to them, ask "what it means to a LEO". Surprisingly enough, I have got the answers I wanted by doing this, and as a result have flown in cities where the laws look like they are a no-go.

 

[SkyDogII]

Yes you are correct and That’s a very fine line. Depending on who shows up and your attitude toward them. Always be polite when speaking with the PO PO


For instance, no drones are allowed to take off or land in Griffith Park in LA. You can fly over it. But you can’t take off or land anywhere on their property. So I can take off on the other side of the fence then fly over their property.

that’s what I was trying to say about hoa’s trying to enforce a no fly zone over their property.
You totally clarified it.

 

[ChrisOutdoors]

Any reasonable wall is fully opaque to near infrared. That had to be microwave frequencies too.

Nope, it was 100% FLIR; a very expensive hand held model and you could see right through the walls (wires, steel, people on other side of the wall). I could even see peoples heated foot prints on laminated tile after walking by in a hurried pace, and my coworkers all wear boots.

It was VERY impressive tech.

 

[sar104]

Nope, it was 100% FLIR; a very expensive hand held model and you could see right through the walls (wires, steel, people on other side of the wall). I could even see peoples heated foot prints on laminated tile after walking by in a hurried pace, and my coworkers all wear boots.

It was VERY impressive tech.

Fascinating, but completely contrary to basic physics. Do you have a link?

 

[Thomas B]

Not to nitpick but for any bill to get to the president’s desk for signature, it must be voted on and pass BOTH houses of Congress. The house and the senate....
To get to the point where a bill is actually voted on it must first pass through a bewilderingly complex labyrinth of steps. Committee assignment, hearings, GAO scoring, floor debate, reconciliation committee, more floor debate, another vote in both houses etc etc. This “bill” literally hasn’t made its first baby step.

So let’s take the opportunity to nip it in the bud before it gets started!