AMA rules when do they HAVE to be obeyed?

[MS Coast]

The open-ended nature of the CBO clause in 44809 doesn't create an unlimited power. In regulation, much is presumed, covered in other parts of the Federal CFR. So just because you don't find explicit mention that some provision is limited to the constraints of sibling regulation doesn't mean those limits are absent. All agencies' specific regulation is presumed to be consistent with the entire CFR, without stating so. Conflict and inconstency still happens all the time, and is how citizens easily win in court against the Fed.

That's not a route most of us are likely to pursue. Or even need to consider.

 

[Droning on and on...]

In every one of those "the cops are picking on me" videos I've seen, the self-described victim who posted the video was behaving like a jackass and/or trying to provoke a problem.

The sky is not falling, so it's still safe to fly our drones in it.

This deserved a standalone

 

[Droning on and on...]

That's not a route most of us are likely to pursue. Or even need to consider.

Agree 100%.

OTOH, I doubt very much the FAA is going to use CBOs to abuse and exceed their statutory authority, so all this hand-wringing about draconian CBO "guidelines" is way overblown, IMO.

So far, several years in to this, they haven't. Indeed, CBOs seem to be doing what i said earlier: Filling the education gap for the more casual, average recreational pilot who's not going to be trying to be an FAA regulator like the rest of us who can quote 107 chapter and verse.

I was hostile to this whole CBO thing when I was first getting to understand it.

Now, I think it a brilliant way to solve a very difficult problem, making it possible to continue the hobby while the skies get crowded with commercial drones.

 

[mavic3usa]

Can you cite even one instance of someone being arrested by a city law enforcement officer for violating a city drone law?

Local city, county, and state agencies who have drone-related laws that survive scrutiny or are disguised or have rules about take-off and landing is my reference to other agencies. There are cities that have a law that says "you have to abide by the FAA laws" which basically means if you break any FAA laws then you violate the city ordinance or the state law. I doubt they will be simply "talking to" recreational drone pilots for their mistakes.

"An arrest warrant was issued for the operator, Rigoberto Canaca Escoto, who is charged with unsafe operation of aircraft, prohibited acts, inducing panic and disorderly conduct."

Source: Records: Man charged after flying drone over Ohio Stadium during Maryland game

 

[MS Coast]

"An arrest warrant was issued for the operator, Rigoberto Canaca Escoto, who is charged with unsafe operation of aircraft, prohibited acts, inducing panic and disorderly conduct."

Source: Records: Man charged after flying drone over Ohio Stadium during Maryland game

This is one of a few high-profile infractions involving people who stupidly flew over pro football games. The man bought the drone one day and flew it over 150,000 people in a stadium. He violated one of the most significant aspects of federal law governing drone operations. That's hardly a violation of a town drone law.

Are you suggesting that it was wrong to arrest him for the violation? That he was arrested only because of a town law and not federal law? This is not a case of a town creating a drone law and arresting someone for a violation.

 

[mavic3usa]

This is one of a few high-profile infractions involving people who stupidly flew over pro football games. The man bought the drone one day and flew it over 150,000 people in a stadium. He violated one of the most significant aspects of federal law governing drone operations. That's hardly a violation of a town drone law.

Are you suggesting that it was wrong to arrest him for the violation? That he was arrested only because of a town law and not federal law? This is not a case of a town creating a drone law and arresting someone for a violation.

In this thread I have not expressed my personal thoughts on any of the events. You can read the details (as reported in the news) and draw your own conclusions:

Pilot accused of flying drone over Ohio Stadium without a license

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – A Columbus man is facing charges related to a drone spotted before the Ohio State-Wisconsin football game earlier in the 2022 season. NBC4 obtained the affidavit record for …

www.nbc4i.com

 

[MS Coast]

In this thread I have not expressed my personal thoughts on any of the events. You can read the details (as reported in the news) and draw your own conclusions:

Pilot accused of flying drone over Ohio Stadium without a license

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – A Columbus man is facing charges related to a drone spotted before the Ohio State-Wisconsin football game earlier in the 2022 season. NBC4 obtained the affidavit record for …

www.nbc4i.com

What is the point of citing that story?

That happened on September 24, 2022. A quick search on the web turned up no stories other than that link and others almost exactly like it, all later in 2022. The one-day drone owner was clueless about the regulations and did something that got the attention of the police. The police were somewhat uninformed about TFRs and made an arrest thinking that the pilot was in violation of one.

Don't be distressed by the maximum penalties mentioned in the article. I'd guess the case was dropped. If there were substantial fines or a prison sentence, wouldn't you expect to have heard about it? Perhaps you can find some details about the ultimate outcome of the case?

An attorney fishing buddy of mine helped with the case of a young man who flew over a capacity crowd in a college football stadium. He had a new drone and no training or studying under his belt and didn't know there was a problem doing that. No fine. No prison time. No drone confiscation. No limitations on his flying drones. He received an enlightening lecture from my attorney friend that scared the bejeebers our of him. He wrote a letter of apology to the FAA with a promise to learn and follow the regulations and that settled matters.

As of 1732 CDT, the sky is still securely in place and drones are still flying.

 

[mavic3usa]

That's hardly a violation of a town drone law.

That he was arrested only because of a town law and not federal law? This is not a case of a town creating a drone law and arresting someone for a violation.

Pilot accused of flying drone over Ohio Stadium without a license

COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – A Columbus man is facing charges related to a drone spotted before the Ohio State-Wisconsin football game earlier in the 2022 season. NBC4 obtained the affidavit record for …

www.nbc4i.com

From the article:

"The Franklin County Municipal Court did not charge Fentress with violating air traffic rules, but it did hand him two counts of operating an aircraft without a valid license."

Franklin County Municipal Court is not a federal court and will only charge you with crimes under their jurisdiction. Even if the charges are later dismissed or you beat the charges, the charges result from laws like this:

Section 4561.14 under the Ohio Laws & Administrative Rules: Section 4561.14 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws which says what I repeated earlier: (B) Whoever violates this section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, imprisoned not more than ninety days, or both.

If this is not happening, why not get this law off the books if nobody is charged $500 or goes to jail? [my opinion] I'll be happy when [fake] laws like this one are removed so innocent recreational pilots cannot be arrested by state police, county deputies, or city cops and charged only to have a get a lawyer and go to court to fight it or more than likely take a plea deal. There are literally hundreds of these laws in city, state, and county agencies all over the country. [/my opinion]

Perhaps you can find some details about the ultimate outcome of the case?

The incident just happened in October a few months ago so I'm not sure there has been anything more public. We don't know if the FAA or any federal charges have been involved. At this point, the outcome is irrelevant to my point when you've been arrested, charged, and you need a lawyer and you have a court appearance. Obviously you want to win your case but the point is:

Local city, county, and state agencies who have drone-related laws that survive scrutiny or are disguised or have rules about take-off and landing is my reference to other agencies. There are cities that have a law that says "you have to abide by the FAA laws" which basically means if you break any FAA laws then you violate the city ordinance or the state law. I doubt they will be simply "talking to" recreational drone pilots for their mistakes.

Break a city ordinance with your drone and it doesn't go to the FAA.

As far as other non-federal agencies are concerned, you can see good examples of what can be done by state police, county deputies, and city police by watching them in action on the various YT videos

Here's another video that I have no comment on other than I see no federal agents here. This is not my video and I only post this so you can hear the details being communicated by law enforcement.

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[MS Coast]

The incident just happened in October a few months ago so I'm not sure there has been anything more public. We don't know if the FAA or any federal charges have been involved. At this point, the outcome is irrelevant to my point when you've been arrested, charged, and you need a lawyer and you have a court appearance. Obviously you want to win your case but the point is:

From your reference:

"COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – A Columbus man is facing charges related to a drone spotted before the Ohio State-Wisconsin football game earlier in the 2022 season. NBC4 obtained the affidavit record for the case, which detailed an officer’s account of the Sept. 24 incident."

Whatever was going to happen to the drone operator has happened.

 

[Droning on and on...]

There are cities that have a law that says "you have to abide by the FAA laws" which basically means if you break any FAA laws then you violate the city ordinance or the state law.

Nope, no laws like that.

No jurisdiction can extend their scope of authority by simply making it illegal to break some superior authority's rules, and then punish you for it. In effect creating a greater penalty for breaking a law in their jurisdiction they have no authority to punish you for.

There are several constitutional problems with this, among them double jeopardy, and also this is not some clever way to get around jurisdiction limitations. If this were allowed, imagine the mess and chaos our already confusing and contradictory body of law would be in the US.

 

[mavic3usa]

Nope, no laws like that.

No jurisdiction can extend their scope of authority by simply making it illegal to break some superior authority's rules, and then punish you for it. In effect creating a greater penalty for breaking a law in their jurisdiction they have no authority to punish you for.

There are several constitutional problems with this, among them double jeopardy, and also this is not some clever way to get around jurisdiction limitations. If this were allowed, imagine the mess and chaos our already confusing and contradictory body of law would be in the US.

Totally agree with you and I call them fake laws or diguised laws and I hate them as well. Will you please work with me to help get rid of these types of laws? Because they are often misinterpreted by the pilots and law enforcement and the local courts and legislatures and do more harm then good due to confusion:

Section 4561.14 - Ohio Revised Code | Ohio Laws

codes.ohio.gov

13-3729 - Unlawful operation of model or unmanned aircraft; state preemption; classification; definitions

www.azleg.gov

Laws like these are nothing new and are not limited to the drone world. States and cities and local agency do this all the time to extend their powers more broadly and while they don't necessarily take action, it does allow them to stop, detain, and maybe defacto arrest over federal issues....they simply do the work and turn over the info. Not a fan.