Any Negative RID experiences so far?

[mavic3usa]

You are nothing but one frightened individual. You can refer to yourself as "we" as many times as you wish, but you stand alone. I don't see anyone here supporting your wild fantasies and fear mongering. I don't like the idea of anyone knowing my location that doesn't NEED to know where I'm piloting from. But that doesn't make me afraid to fly because a mean person might yell at me. I am nothing like you. And I will not support your insipid ramblings here about how dangerous RID is. So please, move on and find a hobby that doesn't scare you. Do you even fly? You seem to be here 24/7 telling everyone how scary and risky it is to fly.

Excellent, I'm glad you finally caved in and agreed with me that RID is not dangerous but the pilot location piece is not a good idea at all. I'm not afraid to fly. I agree, you are free to move on from the conversation.

 

[Ty Pilot]

@mavic3usa

I get that you don't want your average person to be able to see your location when you fly.

I also get that you believe some who can see this info, will use it to attack or infringe your privacy or person in some way.

In your last post where you quoted me, you said you've "googled it" but what did you google? There was a time when the FAA had no jurisdiction over drones. Most folks who flew them were even less informed than they are now because there were no rules or boundaries to follow.

While I understand how this is a 'hobby' for the majority of drone pilots, remote piloting, for better or worse; is serious business. It is here that we have our disagreement. Most hobbyists think that; because it is a hobby, it should be simple, easy to do, care free (for the most part) and above all - non stressful. Adding rules and regulations is stressful and therefore unwarranted to some.

I've been in, and around 'remote piloting' my whole life, for a period of time (two decades), I made a living from it as a designer and manufacturer and later as a paid and sponsored pilot, and more recently as a certified aerial photographer and videographer. I have a vested and passionate interest in remote flight and have always tried to be an ambassador for it.

I wish there were only competent, responsible and dedicated pilots among us and I think for the most part, that is who make up the bulk of the drone community. I wish we didn't have so many rules but I understand why we do. Remote Identification was inevitable and frankly; I am surprised it took this long to get here.

I stand by my assertation that RID will not cause swarms of innocent neighbors to turn into blood-thirsty drone hunters. I think most folks who will use tracking apps will be drone pilots themselves.

 

[Torque]

Excellent, I'm glad you finally caved in and agreed with me that RID is not dangerous but the pilot location piece is not a good idea at all. I'm not afraid to fly. I agree, you are free to move on from the conversation.

This has always been my opinion, don't delude yourself with any imaginary accomplishment in swaying my perspective.
I simply don't live my life in fear, as you appear to with your frightening imaginings of what is going to happen to you when your location is broadcast. Don't confuse that lack of paranoia as an endorsement of RID broadcasting my location.

I'm the OP of this thread. This is my conversation, or was until, as stated before, your paranoia took over yet another thread. I'm not leaving.
I'll remind you of what you said:
"If anyone honestly believes this scenario is a fantasy and drone pilots are bluffing about this and are only trying to "cover their tracks" then I'll give it to you and I'll move on elsewhere. Not a problem."

So do you need a forum vote? Your torch snuffed? Or can you stick to your words and move on?

 

[mavic3usa]

"If anyone honestly believes this scenario is a fantasy and drone pilots are bluffing about this and are only trying to "cover their tracks"

I'm glad that you finally agreed to this statement. I disagree but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Droning on and on...]

Fine, could the naysayers please sincerely address the question?

They have. Just not to your satisfaction.

You can either accept that other people see things different than you, and come to those judgements just as seriously and thoughtfully as you. Agree to disagree.

Or you can act like a petulant child and insult and belittle instead. Remember those social rules I mentioned elsewhere?

 

[Droning on and on...]

But this is only the beginning, I know what's coming down the pike for recreational drone flyers.

No you don't. You have an opinion, informed speculation. So do those arguing against your view.

As concerns the issue of harassment by private citizens, so far you and others concerned RID would facilitate an enormous increase in hobbyists being hassled appear to be wrong, and those of us that think in truth nobody cares seem to be right.

That could change, of course. But reality is what it is, and so far what you've been warning about isn't happening.

And that is a fact. With close to a million or more drones broadcasting RID.

 

[mavic3usa]

As concerns the issue of harassment by private citizens, so far you and others concerned RID would facilitate an enormous increase in hobbyists being hassled appear to be wrong, and those of us that think in truth nobody cares seem to be right.

There won't be an enormous increase, only a small increase. I am disappointed that you believe the attacks on drone pilots will be enormous. I disagree.

 

[Droning on and on...]

There won't be an enormous increase, only a small increase. I am disappointed that you believe the attacks on drone pilots will be enormous. I disagree.

I didn't say anything about attacks.

Attacks are virtually non-existent, and I predict will stay that way.

My prediction regarding harassment is there will be no measurable change.

In the end, RID will end up doing exactly what it was intended to do: Enable detailed low-altitude airspace management and collision avoidance for significant future density of semi-autonomous commercial flights, mostly deliveries, and aid law enforcement in apprehending serious violators that put people and property at risk.

 

[mavic3usa]

Attacks are virtually non-existent, and I predict will stay that way.

My prediction regarding harassment is there will be no measurable change.

I agree, attacks are very rare and will likely stay that way.

I disagree, but instead believe there will be a measurable (unwanted and unnecessary) change in the instances where pilot's details and identity are inappropriately shared in the public space. That's my prediction.

 

[Torque]

I'm glad that you finally agreed to this statement. I disagree but you are entitled to your opinion.

I repeated your statement. That was a quote. Not an agreement. You were confused by that?

 

[Torque]

I disagree, but instead believe there will be a measurable (unwanted and unnecessary) change in the instances where pilot's details and identity are inappropriately shared in the public space. That's my prediction.

Thank you for finally caving in and admitting that there is no evidence to support your fears. Thank you for admitting that it is just YOUR belief and prediction. I'm glad you agree 100%.
Hopefully we can move on and keep this thread on topic with real interactions and not tarot card readings.

 

[Ty Pilot]

As I read this thread and all the others discussing RID's effects on us as drone pilots, I wonder what the reaction would be IF instead of the FAA implementing RID, private companies designed and built hardware and software to do essentially the same thing? What if these apps just showed up on their own and there was no RID requirement by the FAA or other air agencies?

Early original drones (and I am talking about the aircraft itself), did not transmit anything, they were more like an RC aircraft in that: the Transmitter/controller - transmitted signals, but did not receive, while the aircraft received but did not transmit signals. It was 1 way out and 1 way in.

It was when drones started having built in cameras that all of that changed. At that point, both the drone and the controller each had the ability to transmit and receive signals - this was roughly 2013. I am not sure how many folks have thought about this but; right there is when; what we were doing with our drones was given up freely by us.

Think about it. When many here first heard about DJI's Aeroscope - they were mortified. "How could they see who is flying the drone and where they live"? Simple, your drone doesn't dial up a phone number to send back all that info on your screen privately when you're flying five miles away you know who you are. Rather Aero scope simply read the data your drone was always sending which includes the drones serial number. They simply look up that serial number and found the registration that everyone of us has to fill out before we can fly.

So when your out there five miles away and can see what your drone sees on you screen, rest assured those exact same signals (were talking GPS locations, height, speed, direction and a whole lot more) are going out effectively in a ten mile diameter sphere - from your drone. "Your on the list buddy" And spoiler alert - they can be picked up and read quite easily.

All RID did was require manufacturers to 'tweak' the info that was already being freely broadcast, which; (as evidenced by DJI updating older models), is a simple task because 97% of the data (and more) was always being broadcast by us anyway.

 

[DARKSeifer]

Well, I read through this entire thread and it appears only one other person has had an "encounter" that appeared to be the result of RID. I guess I will make that two of us.

Some months ago I was flying at a large hot air balloon event. There was no TFR and it was held in uncontrolled airspace. The NOTAM was minimal. I flew multiple times over a four-day period. I launched from the other side of a body of water and flew out over the water to get footage. I was always upwind of the field and only flew above the empty body of water, i.e., no boaters, swimmers, etc. beneath me. I was never closer than about 600' horizontally from any balloon. I got some great hyperlapses of ascensions and a bunch of regular stills and video.

One morning I was onsite at 7 am, sent up a drone and saw there was no balloon activity at all at the field. The sunrise ascension had been cancelled it turns out. I was only in the air about three minutes. While I was back in my vehicle packing things away, I heard a drone overhead. I looked up through my windshield and there was what appeared to be a Mavic2Pro sitting directly above me at about 30'. I checked Dronescanner, which I always run just to see if anyone else is in the vicinity (and to make sure my RID is working), and there was nothing other than the residual information about the drone I had just landed. The bogey hovered there for about one minute then flew out of my view. About two minutes later it was back and appeared to start a crude grid search of the area. I never got back out of my vehicle and eventually I left. As I was pulling into traffic on the main road, I again saw the drone. This time it was across the road flying low and slow over a parking lot.

I returned to the event one last time that evening and was airborne for almost two hours with no further sightings, nor did I ever see any other drones on Dronescanner.

I wouldn't call this a confrontation, but clearly I was tracked using RID. There's simply no way someone could have seen my drone from the launch field (I was never closer than 1200'). Also, I had been on the ground for a couple of minutes already when the bogey showed up. If it had been close enough to follow my drone (Mini3Pro which is super-quiet anyway) I surely would have heard it when outside my vehicle.

It is ironic that someone would use RID to track me with a drone that was not transmitting RID itself.

I have long followed the practice of keeping a low profile when flying, so this was a real surprise for me.

Probably it was just another pilot that saw you on the karen app or saw the drone midflight.

I haven't located anyone with the karen app yet, except me, but I visually located around 5 or 6 drones midflight and searched for the pilots, by just following the drone with the telephoto.

So when your out there five miles away and can see what your drone sees on you screen, rest assured those exact same signals (were talking GPS locations, height, speed, direction and a whole lot more) are going out effectively in a ten mile diameter sphere - from your drone. "Your on the list buddy"

All RID did was require manufacturers to 'tweak' the info that was already being freely broadcast, which; (as evidenced by DJI updating older models), is a simple task because 97% of the data (and more) was always being broadcast by us anyway.

The data link between the controller and the drone is encrypted, is not publicly available, and never will unless someone breaks the encryption. Aeroscope knows the encryption and can listen to all that data (it's basically like a man in the middle attack), it could even receive the video feed, but DJI chose not to make that available on the Aeroscope units.

Aeroscope shares basically the same telemetry as RID (or vice versa), but it also shares your DJI account e-mail. The Aeroscope software also has memory and elaborates a heatmap of your flights, and the data collected can be shared with other Aeroscope devices.

I already knew that when I bought my Mini 2, and that's why I made a specific email for my DJI account/drone related things (because my usual account is just my name and surname and I knew that would be shared around while flying).

RID is a separate non encrypted transmission, publicly available, it's similar, but not the same.

RID may only work locally now, but unlike Aeroscope, it's not proprietary and RID listeners are dirty cheap, so in the future I assume it will be much more like a FlightRadar24 app, that collects the drone data locally from a net of dedicated RID listeners and shares it online.

I can pick a RID package from my Mavic 3 as far as 3.5Km with my Samsung Tab A7 laying o a table in my garden, a dedicated antenna on a high place could pick drones from 50Km away as long as there is line of sight, much like the Aeroscope fixed antenna.

I don't necessarily think it will be a problem because most confrontations/unwanted interactions are from people at around 300m of the takeoff point anyway. Mostly because they feel their privacy violated, which is true, if you see/hear an unexpected drone flying nearby it is a quite natural reaction to feel observed, even if the drone is at 200m, passing by and looking to the other side.

That being said, I don't feel comfortable sharing my telemetry and location to the public, so whenever a hack is available to turn off RID I'll just pick it, like I always hack my drones to use FCC instead of CE; until then, I already learned to live with it.

 

[mavic3usa]

As I read this thread and all the others discussing RID's effects on us as drone pilots, I wonder what the reaction would be IF instead of the FAA implementing RID, private companies designed and built hardware and software to do essentially the same thing? What if these apps just showed up on their own and there was no RID requirement by the FAA or other air agencies?

Would love that. If I block my transmission and I refuse to share my details with a private company project, sucks to be them. If I block my transmission and I refuse to share my details with a government project, I go to jail. That's the difference.

If the government would like to take away the sanctions related to RID and then keep their little science project going, I'm 100% on board and have no issues. But right now the way it is, I'm only 75% on board.

 

[mavic3usa]

Thank you for finally caving in and admitting that there is no evidence to support your fears. Thank you for admitting that it is just YOUR belief and prediction. I'm glad you agree 100%.
Hopefully we can move on and keep this thread on topic with real interactions and not tarot card readings.

Well, it only took nearly 100 posts for you to finally realize I never had any fears and this make any unrealistic predictions. I'm glad you finally see it my way and it's a relief that we are 100% on the same page. And thanks for keeping it cordial. I agree, I caved in to admitting I have no fear of flying, I don't read tarot cards, and I don't support violent confrontations with drone pilots which is the bulk of your argument. Glad you are finally dropping those ridiculous statements and personal attacks.

 

[MS Coast]

Is this an appropriate summary of the present state of this discussion?

• RID broadcasting and related tracking apps have been in use on hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of drones for months.
• No one knows of any instances of RID being used to locate and violently confront a drone pilot.
• No one expects a significant increase in unpleasant confrontations with drone pilots with the implementation of RID.
• There is no justification for fears that would suggest carrying firearms or pepper spray in expectation of confrontations so severe that using them on the complaining person is required.
• We'd all be happier if the controller/pilot location was not broadcasted by RID.

 

[mavic3usa]

Is this an appropriate summary of the present state of this discussion?

• We'd all be happier if the controller/pilot location was not broadcasted by RID.

Agreed.

 

[MS Coast]

Agreed.

Agree with only that point? Or all?

 

[Daytona500]

I have to tell ya , I was in NH a few weeks back photographing covered bridges. Every bridge I went to there were other people there with Cameras no drones. One Bridge "Albany Covered Bridge " there were literally 100's of people there, People every were In the road , on the bridge, in the woods. I walked down a path past tons of people sat down on a bench with lots of people around me, unpacked my drone asked the people in front of me if they would give me space to take off and they graciously moved aside and I flew out into the middle of the river to take my shots. I heard all kinds of talk, oh he has a drone, aliens from outer space, how cool is that, ect ect. I held up my controller so they could see what I was shooting and it was like holy wow , you cant get shots like that with a phone or a handheld camera. No one said anything bad So basically what I'm saying is taking this experience with hundreds of people in real life , I'm not worried about RID bringing down the wrath of Karens on me.

 

[mavic3usa]

Agree with only that point? Or all?

I don't have any comments on the other points at this time. For the majority of this thread, I've repeatedly said I had no immediate opinion of these other topics besides the one. Maybe later when it is appropriate but for now, my focus is on drone pilot's location thru RID. Perhaps others have comments on your remaining points.