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Are the dates for the "Legacy" drone transition changing?

Rilot

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CAA opened a consultancy a few weeks back on this. IIRC, the options were basically - no delay, delay 1 year, 2 years, or indefinitely, with freeform comments also possible. I think that means that a further delay is a given, with 1st Jan 2024 being the earliest go-live date, and even that seems unlikely IMHO, given one issue seems to be with signing contracts with the testing facilities who will need to actually certify the aircraft.

FWIW, I suggested they simply scrap the whole idea of legacy and let the older devices age out on their own. There's almost no chance that anyone doing a spot check will know whether a given drone is being flown illegally as legacy or legally as non-legacy, so it would only matter in the event of an incident when the details would come to light in an investigation. There are not a massive number of drones out there, and C-mark or not, the latest drones are presumably being built to the current draft standards.

The rhetorical question is how many M2s and earlier does the CAA realistically expect to be flying by 2024, 2025, or whenever the new rules might be in a position to go live. Is that number *really* high enough to justify some kind of special handling that would - in all probability - be all but unenforceable anyway?
 
as of now the date is still end of 2022 but as @zocalo said in his post above ,it will most likely change before the end of the year
 
Sideways question: is there a published definition for "toy"? Wondering about the sub-250g category…
 
all i could find on the CAA website is it refers to under 250g drones and small home constructed FPV type drones that dont have a camera on board that is capable of recording pictures or video
this does not include the small camera that FPV drones use to send signals to goggles,these type of drone are in the C0 group of the open category
they also present no or very little risk if they hit someone or something,and most of them have enclosed propeller's anyway
there is also reference to the maximum distance from the transmitter that the drone can be controlled by the RC ,
 
all i could find on the CAA website is it refers to under 250g drones and small home constructed FPV type drones that dont have a camera on board that is capable of recording pictures or video
this does not include the small camera that FPV drones use to send signals to goggles,these type of drone are in the C0 group of the open category
they also present no or very little risk if they hit someone or something,and most of them have enclosed propeller's anyway
there is also reference to the maximum distance from the transmitter that the drone can be controlled by the RC

So a Mavic Mini isn't a toy?

Curious because my post-retirement hope is to take aerial pictures in Brittany. And my French isn't good enough to pass a exam, even if I know the material. I have my Canadian sRPAS licence.
 
So a Mavic Mini isn't a toy?

Curious because my post-retirement hope is to take aerial pictures in Brittany. And my French isn't good enough to pass a exam, even if I know the material. I have my Canadian sRPAS licence.
While you need to register the aircraft in the first country you intend to fly in, you can do the exam part in any country in the EU. English is still an official language of the EU and is used in the Republic of Ireland, so you can take the exam there, then register the drone in France.

I have no idea why they have this "first country" requirement for registration though, especially given Schengen, since it would seem more sensible to do both in the same place, but that's the EU for you.
 
While you need to register the aircraft in the first country you intend to fly in, you can do the exam part in any country in the EU. English is still an official language of the EU and is used in the Republic of Ireland, so you can take the exam there, then register the drone in France.

I have no idea why they have this "first country" requirement for registration though, especially given Schengen, since it would seem more sensible to do both in the same place, but that's the EU for you.
So I'd have to go to Ireland to sit the exam?

Hadn't planned on visiting Ireland. That will up the cost of the trip quite a bit — maybe out of my budget. :(
 
So I'd have to go to Ireland to sit the exam?

Hadn't planned on visiting Ireland. That will up the cost of the trip quite a bit — maybe out of my budget. :(
No need to visit in person, you can do the exam online before you travel using the Republic's MySRS platform - it's then valid for 5 years, which is one of the longer durations before a resit is needed in the EU scheme. You mentioned "sub-250g" above, so I'm assuming you'd only need the basic online Open Subcategory A1 and A3, and not either Subcategory A2 or Specific which have more onerous requirements and I believe does have a practical flying element.

More details here.
 
No need to visit in person, you can do the exam online before you travel using the Republic's MySRS platform - it's then valid for 5 years, which is one of the longer durations before a resit is needed in the EU scheme. You mentioned "sub-250g" above, so I'm assuming you'd only need the basic online Open Subcategory A1 and A3, and not either Subcategory A2 or Specific which have more onerous requirements and I believe does have a practical flying element.

More details here.
Thank you very much for this help.

It will likely be a couple of years before I can go, but this is a trip I've wanted to do for years so this is very useful information.
 
No need to visit in person, you can do the exam online before you travel using the Republic's MySRS platform - it's then valid for 5 years, which is one of the longer durations before a resit is needed in the EU scheme. You mentioned "sub-250g" above, so I'm assuming you'd only need the basic online Open Subcategory A1 and A3, and not either Subcategory A2 or Specific which have more onerous requirements and I believe does have a practical flying element.

More details here.

Thanks to covid some of the Irish examiners for the A2 also have online modules, so the practical element does not require an in person visit anymore.
 
Im guessing UK registration and A2s etc aren't valid?
Reason being the CAA issued us with new IDs a while ago to "synchronise with the EASA rules" and basically the new IDs all have GBR- as a prefix indicating country.

They were hinting at least as they've implemented the rules fully there'd be cross recognition.
 
@Cymru the uk rules do differ slightly from the rest of the EU,and yes they are UK specific hence the GBR prefix
there are no C rated drones yet to fully benefit from having the A2 C of C but as of this time it does allow us to fly our legacy drones with less separation from uninvolved people ,and if they decide to extend the transitional period that would mean we could keep on flying them as we do now
 
Im confident they'll extend. The systems just aren't in place for an end-of-year transition.

Still using my trusty M2P in A2 as DJI still haven't made the Mavic 3 as useful (no sdk, no third party, no waypoints). I dont expect that to change the end of the year.

Mini 3 arrived today as well.
Not overly bothered having to register the drone in Ireland but the prospect of doing another A2CoC is annoying.
 
Interesting development:

In June 2022 the CAA consulted on whether to extend the Legacy and Transitional UAS provisions in the Open category. Further details about the consultation can be found here.

The CAA believed an extension would likely be necessary due to the UK not having in place the necessary infrastructure to move away from non-class marked UAS, to class marked UAS by 01 Jan 2023. Namely,

  • The establishment of the market surveillance authority,
  • Establishment of conformity assessment bodies,
  • Creation and adoption of relevant standards.
    The purpose of the consultation was to gauge stakeholder support for, or against, an
    extension to the Legacy and Transitional UAS provisions described above, and for how
    long, and to better understand the impact of making this change, or not.
Chapter 2

Executive Summary
The consultation is now closed. In total the CAA received 4506 responses across the five questions posed.

The RPAS Policy Team who instigated the consultation would like to make clear every response was individually reviewed by the CAA.

The following is a statistical breakdown of responses from questions 1 through to 4.

The CAA asked:

“Would you be in favour of extending the provisions for Legacy category UAS in the

Open Category”.

You said:
Option Total Percent
Yes 4415 97.98
No 71 1.58
I don’t know 20 0.44
Not answered 0 0

The CAA asked:

“Over what additional period should the extension for the Legacy category be
valid?”
You said:
Option Total Percent
12 months 105 2.33
24 months 1120 24.86
Longer than 24 months 3187 70.73
Not answered 94 2.09

The CAA asked:

“Would you be in favour of extending the provisions for Transitional category UAS in the Open Category?”

You said:

Option Total Percent

Yes 4357 96.69
No 73 1.62
I don’t know 76 1.69
Not answered 0 0

The CAA asked:
“Over what additional period should the extension for the Transitional category be valid?”
You said:
Option Total Percent
12 months 97 2.15
24 months 732 16.25
Longer than 24 months 3522 78.16
Not answered 155 3.44

The CAA asked an additional question that provided our regulated a community an opportunity to discuss their choices in greater detail.

“Do you have any additional comments in relation to the proposed extension including any impact of either extending, or not extending these provisions may have for you?”

In total, the CAA received 2411 responses to this additional question. Each of the 2411 response comments was read and grouped accordingly. What emerged were some common themes outlined below.

Environmental Impact

A significant proportion of respondents were concerned about the environmental impact of having potentially thousands of UAS, many of which still functional, becoming e-waste at the end of the transitional and legacy periods. You said at the point Class Marked UAS are available then the industry would see a natural retirement of legacy and transitional UAS.

Economic Impact

The majority of responses focused on the economic impact of having to upgrade to Class Marked UAS after investing significantly in Legacy, and Transitional UAS. The CAA were told the current regulation, if allowed to continue, would push not only recreational, but also commercial operators out of the market.

Investment Uncertainty

Many of you told us your business have held off purchasing much needed UAS with increased capability out of concern for their future in the Open Category. The uncertainly currently surrounding Class Marked UAS which is creating uncertainty within your business operations.

Safety

A significant percentage of respondents made the argument against Class Marked UAS in the Open Category. Citing the low volume of incidents that currently occur between those who abide by the current regulatory regime.

Clarification of the CAA’s role

A common theme in the responses is the assumption it is in the CAA’s power to make this decision alone. Changes to policy and regulation are made by the Department for Transport and the Government. When the CAA identifies an area of policy or regulation to update, create, or amend, we submit an opinion to the Department for Transport who will consider it. As discussed in Chapter 3, the CAA has submitted our opinion on this matter to the DfT for consideration.

CAP 2367 Chapter 3: Next steps

There is a clear and significant majority who favour an extension to both provisions beyond twenty-four months.

This has been a valuable exercise for the CAA to learn why the regulated community was in favour of this. It has shaped our own opinion significantly and moulded our response to the Department for Transport.

To that end, the CAA have recommended to the DfT that:

All provisions should be extended indefinitely and the class marking scheme should be reevaluated.
This will form part of a larger investigation into the current UAS Open Category regulatory framework and what is most suitable for the United Kingdom. This is to ensure any solution suitably addresses the needs of the community as well as addresses safety and security risks in a proportional manner.

Notwithstanding a re-evaluation of the class marking scheme an extension should be indefinite at least until the consumer can purchase Class Marked UAS on the open market. At that point, consideration could be given to the re-introduction of a transitional period. This would ensure that the regulated
community has a suitable amount of time to naturally phase out older UAS whilst at the same time having the option to purchase Class Marked UAS. This approach would significantly mitigate almost all areas of concern raised in the responses to the consultation.

Details of the recommendation to government, including the policy objective, rationale and draft regulatory text, will be published on the CAA Safety policy and legislation project tracker website in due course.
 
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along with this should be some clarification regarding the A2 C of C which was supposed to allow us to fly C class drones from originally July this year ,so at the very least anyone who has gone to the trouble and cost of acquiring their A2 C of C, should have the five year life of it be reinstated ,when the C class drones become available
 
Indeed. I have my A2 and it would be good to have it extended.
 
Indeed. I have my A2 and it would be good to have it extended.
Been giving a little thought to this today. Basically, what the CAA is recommending is that UK users won't ever have a C-mark[1] and there won't be a Legacy class, so what implications does that have for CofCs? I suspect the most likely outcome would be one of the following, depending on what the DfT's view is on management and enforcement:
  1. A simplified Drone Code and enforcement of it takes priority, and they'll also be scrapped. Barring any weight-based distinctions, a given drone will have a set of flight restrictions applied to it, regardless of age. What that means for current CofC holders or operators of CofC training courses would need to be determined, but I fear they may be left out of pocket.
  2. They'll continue to exist as an additional, but entirely optional, certification that allows holders to operate with less restrictive flight rules, e.g. being able to approach closer to structures than by default.
Personally, I think the latter is the best outcome, especially if current CofC holders are given an extension, as then it would largely be driven by usage case and what kind of subject matter people want to photograph. You'd only need the CofC if you specifically need it for what you want to shoot, although it could possibly also be mandatory for commercial usage.

[1] Or we'll just get the EU C-mark by default, along with the other countries that are not in the EU bu have compatible RF requirements, regardless of whether it applies locally or not. I suspect this is far more likely than vendors spinning up a dedicated production run just to produce a version of a given aircraft that omits a single sticker that's otherwise harmless.
 
I see that EASA are now saying 1st Jan 2024 on their website: Open Category - Civil Drones | EASA
UK CAA still says 1st Jan 2023 here: Drones - flying in the open category | Civil Aviation Authority

If that is right, then I can see CAA following suit.
Formal update as mentioned above, see: https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/3... for Legacy and Transitional Category UAS.pdf
Outome:
To that end, the CAA have recommended to the DfT that:
All provisions should be extended indefinitely and the class marking scheme should be reevaluated. This will form part of a larger investigation into the current UAS Open Category regulatory framework and what is most suitable for the United Kingdom. This is to ensure any solution suitably addresses the needs of the community as well as addresses safety and security risks in a proportional manner. Notwithstanding a re-evaluation of the class marking scheme an extension should be indefinite at least until the consumer can purchase Class Marked UAS on the open market. At that point, consideration could be given to the re-introduction of a transitional period. This would ensure that the regulated community has a suitable amount of time to naturally phase out older UAS whilst at the same time having the option to purchase Class Marked UAS. This approach would significantly mitigate almost all areas of concern raised in the responses to the consultation. Details of the recommendation to government, including the policy objective, rationale and draft regulatory text, will be published on the CAA Safety policy and legislation project tracker website in due course
 
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