Ask neighbors before flying

[mbatesco]

When I first started flying with all the paranoia in the world. I told my neighbors I would be flying at different times and altitudes over the area. I live in suburbia and figured someone would think I was spying on them which I was not. I usually fly from 100 to 400 feet in the area. I told them they can come by see what I am doing and ask questions but I am flying to learn and have fun. I have posted a few pictures on the neighborhood's Facebook page which helps as well.

You also need to remember some states, countries may have different laws. I saw one law that the state of Oregon was considering that you had get permission to fly over private land. Tough to enforce and no doubt will be broken regardless since if I am going from point A to point B, at 100 feet or higher who cares.

The best you can do is communicate and share with some folks and worse case just fly and stay away from buildings. Also, if they threaten to shoot down the aircraft, just say "I recommend you don't do that." and walk away. If they do shoot it down, at least in the US, they will be arrested and probably have to pay for the aircraft and fines.

 

[CoolBreeze]

He owns about 1000 acres all around me and other then directly behind my house I really have no idea where his land is and other farmers land is.
I'll let him cool down a while and then maybe drive over and actually ask him if I can fly over his land but more to the extremes of his borders.
No sense pissin off the neighbors (more then I have lol)

If you can show him videos and pics to get his interest and give him ideas how drones are being used in agriculture, how a drone could help him...He might get interested. A neighbor with a drone is a GOOD neighbor.

 

[BuzzyOne]

If you can show him videos and pics to get his interest and give him ideas how drones are being used in agriculture, how a drone could help him...He might get interested. A neighbor with a drone is a GOOD neighbor.

Trying to reason with a nutter that threatened shooting down your drone is probably not a good idea. You never know what will set a kook off. Maybe you show him the footage and it justifies his anger. Might T him off even more.

I'd call the police and let them deal with him.

 

[thomashall1993]

Everyone should read the Supreme Court decision in US v. Causby.

In that case the court said the land owner controlled the air above his property up to 365 feet.

He was mad because military planes were buzzing his livestock.

I've never seen this used against a drone pilot but I'm sure the day is coming.

I carry this court decision in my flight manual when I go to do a job. I notify adjacent property owners that I am going to fly, but in case some lunatic tries to confront me or bring LEOs to talk to me, I have the documentation on my person to defend myself legally. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is ethical or respectful, which is why I try to make every effort to be respectful of others, but if their requests are extreme, I have the law on my side for protection.

 

[BuzzyOne]

I carry this court decision in my flight manual when I go to do a job. I notify adjacent property owners that I am going to fly, but in case some lunatic tries to confront me or bring LEOs to talk to me, I have the documentation on my person to defend myself legally. Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is ethical or respectful, which is why I try to make every effort to be respectful of others, but if their requests are extreme, I have the law on my side for protection.

Not this again...

Did you read the case? The case is a 5th Amendment rights case about Government Taking and not about the free use of public airspace.

The Government caused a diminution of Causby's property’s value (by military overflights that killed his chickens and causing him to lose sleep) and he was compensated for it. The case isn't applicable here. Property owners do not own the airspace above them.

 

[m0j0]

Did anyone actually read the case. It doesn't apply here.

 

[m0j0]

Would it be so difficult to respect his privacy and wishes? No, he does not own the airspace but neither do you. He also has no idea what you are doing.

Why does he need to make any attempt to contact this person. I would not. Let me ask you. You obviously are a certified pilot. So in the course of you landing you fly over my house. I don't like it one bit because I hate all these wanna be top gun hacks flying over my house to land their crappy planes. I think they are spying on me. I think they are danger and could crash..btw.. they have crashed near my home. I go to the airport and rant and rave about your plane.

So you are going to come to my house and explain why you fly over my home? You are going to respect my privacy rights? I could argue that your plane is far more of a privacy issue and far more dangerous than his "toy."

No, you are not. Why is that? Well because I don't govern the airspace over my home. The FAA does. You are flying within the well established guideline of your hobby/profession.

There is no difference here. He should fly his "toy" within the guidelines established by the entity that governs it's operation, the FAA. Should he use common sense and not fly directly over this persons house at 50 feet AGL? Of course... but he has rights too.

 

[m0j0]

The aispace system is set up for real aircraft, not flying toys operated by people who are not certified aircraft pilots. Real aircraft don't have to share the airspace with toy drones, but you surely have to share the airspace with them.

The reality of airspace today is that "real aircraft" do have to share the airspace with all types of aircraft. Including all types of unmanned aircraft.

Civility, responsibility and consideration is all it takes for us to co-exist.

That applies even on this board.

However, when the untrained hobbyist think they own the skies and make their own rules by virtue of a flying toy, that is where the problems begin.

Nobody made their own rules here. He was flying where he is legally allowed to fly and the property owner didn't like it.

If it were me I would keep flying within the rules and not be overly concerned with the property owner. If it becomes a big issue allow the gendarmes the opportunity to figure it out.

 

[FlyingAround]

I understand all sides of this. I don't really want to piss off the neighbor. I want to talk to him but am a little nervous even going to his property to do so. He was really angry. No clue why. As I said I was very respectful and never went over his buildings (well not under 200 feet), never "buzzed" anything. Basically just flying around enjoying the scenery. I went and asked a few neighbors on the other side of the road away from him and got "What quad?" I told them about it. They thought it was cool although no one even knew I had one lol...
But his property is way better for flying. A lot of acres of wide open spaces. I'll sort it out. Most likely will talk to someone over there on the farm. I understand he is one of 3 brothers that own it.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

It sounds like there are more than you flying about the area, sounds quite possible it's other causing the discontent.
The old adage comes to mind "If you fly with the crows, you get shot with the crows", and that seems like it might be close to accurate in the situation here !

I'd buy a couple of coffees (or a few beers), go over one late afternoon, and have a chat with all the bros if possible.
Take it slow, but start with sorry about the incident the other day, can we have a sit and brief talk it out ? You want to be a good neighbour, but enjoy your hobby too.
No harm in trying, no contact and filing reports with LE is only going to darken the air overall.

Start with showing them some footage of your flights, a few stills, be selective, maybe even a special edit of the best video footage showing responsibility in your flying etc.
Ask about the problems the one of them has had, and try and clarify it wasn't you. It could have been a one of, someone who drove out to fl and was not flying with consideration etc.

But know your rights I guess in case you need to let them know.

It would be better to be on side with neighbours, one day you might need to do a recovery, and that WOULD require permission.
One day they might want some shots of stock or the property from above, and you can oblige.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[TahoeTurner]

I grew up on a farm in rural Wisconsin and in the early to mid 90's a helicopter was circling our place and all the neighbors' places. A couple weeks later a photographer/sales person stopped by with a framed, aerial view photograph of our farm. He chatted for a bit and my parents ended up buying the photograph for around $150 (If my memory is correct). My grandparents, parents, Aunts and Uncles all have aerial photographs of their farms framed in their houses.

Point is, you could approach him to apologize, ask his permission to fly over his property, and see if he'd like a large aerial photograph of his place (free of charge, of course). Might cost you 50-60 dollars but would be a good way to smooth things over...

 

[Dean George]

Fly where you want. Make a formal complaint to the police.

Actually he is planning on holding a conversation with neighbor and working it out after he cools off a bit. This is the way a good neighbor would go about resolving the issues!!! Calling the cops first in my opinion is part of the problem now days. Get to know the neighbors and let them know what you are doing this will have much better results in long run. Yes he was perfectly legal doing what he was doing but it would be better to try and have good relationship with neighbors than just telling them hey its legal so I'm doing it no matter what you say. Those who don't consider the property owner at all and do it because they can are going to be the ones that cause more laws that restrict drone use down the road.

 

[HighlandsVideo]

Stupid as in...what are you doing danman on your property that you're so afraid someone will see with their drone? There is not now, nor has there ever been any reasonable expectation of privacy from the air. You sound just like the ignorant farmer. Willing to commit a crime by destroying private property for no actual reason!

We must protect our right to fly where ever it is safe and there is little possibility that a land owner could show any actual harm caused by a tiny drone flying overhead. No lawsuit in it!

 

[Eyvindj]

When reading this thread my thoughts goes along the educational aspect - our 'obligation' to educate the public a little bit. That these drones are not THAT evil after all. They may just help one day, if/when disaster strikes - or if your neighbour want an inspection somewhere inaccessible. Wouldn't we give a hand then?

I have had a few brushes like this, too, so this is definitely across geographies and likely to be a 'new technology innovation' issue. I get to think about the steam engine, the aeroplane etc and people 'protesting' until all settle down and find a balance.

There are times, where I feel like just standing in a public/open space in full view of other people but only with the RC and tablet (and drone packed neatly away) - just to see the reaction... Bit of a prankster, I guess...

Anyway, I am now also content with flying totally in private, where nobody gets bothered. Fly legal and what they don't see they are also not likely to bother about.

With all the great footage on YT you can not help wondering about how much of it is 'legally flown' - great footage nonetheless...

 

[tomswell]

I chilled an, in my face upright pot grower, by sending him a follow up apology and a Google Map image of his concerns explaining I wasn't the only one with knowledge of what was behind is tall fences and locked gates. To this day it try to stay high ( pun intended ) and never directly above his activities. Physical confrontation is certainly not a nice experience .

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Everyone should read the Supreme Court decision in US v. Causby.

In that case the court said the land owner controlled the air above his property up to 365 feet.

He was mad because military planes were buzzing his livestock.

I've never seen this used against a drone pilot but I'm sure the day is coming.

The court never stated what anyone owns, only what they felt the Army owed Causby for using the airspace. Because the lowest plane flew at 83', and because flights above 365' were considered in the public domain, the Court needed to determine the value owed the farmer for public use of his airspace between 83' and 365'. The Court did not need to compensate the farmer for use below 83 feet (25 m), because the planes did not fly below that height (currently manned aircraft must maintain 500' in most cases). So until it is revisited in the courts we won't know the actual height considered to be 'yours'.

 

[Arkarian]

This is why I mainly fly at night. With the Strobons and "navigation" lights, at 400' my Mavic looks like a plane going by at 4,000'.

Also less people are out and about, it's cooler, and I can keep VLOS much, much longer (past 2 miles!).

What do you turn off on the drone so it doesn't crash at night? I noticed mine get really erratic one evening when I was flying and it suddenly got dark.

 

[Arkarian]

Trying to reason with a nutter that threatened shooting down your drone is probably not a good idea. You never know what will set a kook off. Maybe you show him the footage and it justifies his anger. Might T him off even more.

I'd call the police and let them deal with him.

I just go to the local park that allows it or to a nearby Ohio State Park. Most State Parks do not have drone restrictions. National Parks do restrict drones.

I have a neighbor across the street who got mad just because I flew above my house to get an aerial shot of my house. He said he could see it from his backyard and it was unnerving. I told him it was above my own house and there was nothing legally he could do about it.

 

[BuzzyOne]

So until it is revisited in the courts we won't know the actual height considered to be 'yours'.

Actually, The FAA act provides that the US Government has exclusive sovereignty of the airspace.

Again, the Causby case was a 5th Amendment rights case against the US Govt.

Although there is this tibid from the majority opinion:

"The airplane is part of the modern environment of life, and the inconveniences which it causes are normally not compensable under the Fifth Amendment. The airspace, apart from the immediate reaches above the land, is part of the public domain. We need not determine at this time what those precise limits are. Flights over private land are not a taking, unless they are so low and so frequent as to be a direct and immediate interference with the enjoyment and use of the land." (Emphasis mine)