Drone Runner, a video would be much appreciated. So many different answers to what should be simple.
Australian Rules and Regulations - CASA
- Thread starter Drone Runner
- Start date
"The regulation requiring the RPA to be kept in visual line of sight by the person flying the aircraft means that first-person view operations are not permitted. This does not exclude another crew member using FPV to help guide the remote pilot to complete a task."Unless you have a spotter is it not?
Also beaches are dependent on number of people to make up populous as per casa regs
As for the populous definition it's all to do with unreasonable risk of falling on property or someone not connected with the flight. They go on state that flying 30 metres directly above only one person could constitute a populous area.
stratos
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So its really simple, you just have to fly with care. Now, DO NOT FLY close the 5NM of the Airport.
But you CAN fly in the city provided:
a) Do not fly over 120 meters
b) Dot fly close to animals and people leave a good distance to the people ~30meters
c) Do not fly on top of other people houses - this makes sense
Fly in line of sight. Dont bother people, if people around are getting un easy just pack your stuff and go to another place.
It good to fly in some parks with open space, there is few people.
But you CAN fly in the city provided:
a) Do not fly over 120 meters
b) Dot fly close to animals and people leave a good distance to the people ~30meters
c) Do not fly on top of other people houses - this makes sense
Fly in line of sight. Dont bother people, if people around are getting un easy just pack your stuff and go to another place.
It good to fly in some parks with open space, there is few people.
Just uploaded a video addressing the top 5 misconceptions about flying a drone in Australia since I've already seen a few new drone flyers since Xmas and as per the post above many people still do not fully understand what the Rules & Regulations are.
1. Can you fly within 5.5km of an airport or helipad - YES
2. Can you fly over 120 metres - YES
3. Can you fly FPV - NO
4. Can you fly over a National Park - YES
5. Can you get cool footage of whales and dolphins - YES
I know I'm going to cop some flak about the National Park thing but CASA says it's okay to fly over, most if not all National Parks Services say you're not allowed to take off or land from a National Park but they cannot dictate what you do in the air above them.
The only applicable law you may be pinged on is being a Public Nuisance which is a Federal Regulation and not a Parks and Rec one.
1. Can you fly within 5.5km of an airport or helipad - YES
2. Can you fly over 120 metres - YES
3. Can you fly FPV - NO
4. Can you fly over a National Park - YES
5. Can you get cool footage of whales and dolphins - YES
I know I'm going to cop some flak about the National Park thing but CASA says it's okay to fly over, most if not all National Parks Services say you're not allowed to take off or land from a National Park but they cannot dictate what you do in the air above them.
The only applicable law you may be pinged on is being a Public Nuisance which is a Federal Regulation and not a Parks and Rec one.
Guys
Re the 5.5km exclusion zone regulation - if an airfield or helipad has a control tower then the 5.5km exclusion zone comes into force (as the airfield/heliport is then considered a CONTROLLED aerodrome) WHILE the tower is active (manned). If it is not manned you can fly within 5.5kms of it but still have to abide by the other RPA regulations re proximity to aircraft, arrival/departure routes etc. Very simple really except that not all control towers are always manned/active so it is your responsibility to ascertain whether or not it is active at the time you are going to fly.
This is Incorrect.
As CASA states, you can fly within 5.5km of a manned control tower/airport/helipad so long as you do not operate:
- on the approach and departure path, or
- within the movement area, or
- create a hazard to aircraft that may be using those areas.
Hi Blake
Just saw your reply and thought it needed a prompt reply as you are incorrect and my statement regarding CONTROLLED aerodromes/Heliports is correct. I'm a Commercial Pilot with many years of flying experience and fully understand CASA regs including those related to RPA operations.
You cannot fly within the 5.5km exclusion zone of a CONTROLLED airport (ie one where the control tower is manned/active) unless you have prior approval (and you will be very lucky to get that). CASA does not state that you can fly within 5.5km of an airport with an active control tower.
Here is the relevant paragraph taken straight from the CASA web site:
What are the standard operating conditions?
- Excluded RPAs, i.e. commercial very small RPA operators and some private landowners, must follow the SOCs.
- You must only fly during the day, not at night.
- You must only fly by visual line of sight (VLOS)-close enough to see, maintain orientation and achieve accurate flight and tracking.
- You must fly no higher than 120 metres (400 feet) above ground level.
- You must not fly any closer than 30 metres from other people.
- You must not fly in a prohibited area or in a restricted area without the permission of the responsible authority.
- You must not fly over populous areas, such as beaches, parks and sporting ovals. The risk to life, safety and property depends not only on the density of people and property in an area but also the flying height and the likelihood of injury or damage should something go wrong with the RPA.
- You must not fly within 5.5 kilometres (3 nautical miles) of a controlled aerodrome-one with an operating control tower.
- You must not fly in the area of a public safety operation without the approval of a person in charge of the emergency response. This includes situations such as a car crash or any police, firefighting or search and rescue operations.
- You must only fly one RPA at a time.
Flying drones in Australia | Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Thank you for your reply gunpilot, the page you linked states the SOC for all RPA, however recreational flying has additional leniencies that do allow flight in controlled airspace.
Rules for flying drones and model aircraft safely (recreational use):
This clearly indicates that you can indeed fly within controlled airspace. It then goes on to say:
This is more ambiguous as it does not directly state controlled vs uncontrolled, however given the allowance of flight in controlled airspace up to 120m AGL above, it implies that it does not matter whether the airspace is controlled or not.
Flying drones or model aircraft recreationally | Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Commercial flight does indeed require approval in controlled airspace, as you pointed out.
Last edited:
Blake
We (RPA flyers) all need to ensure that what we post in this forum is 100% correct as flyers with little or no understanding of CASA PART 101 regulations may take a comment like the one just made before by yourself as gospel and fly accordingly which could possibly have serious ramifications. Unfortunately you are one of those who just does not understand the regulations fully.
No idea where your located but if you were in say Victoria and detected flying inside 5.5kms of Moorabbin, Essendon, Tullamarine, or even the Heliport on the Yarra River in Melbourne you would be inviting serious trouble from CASA. Again, read the point in RED - could not be any simpler than that.
With regard to your reference re "Commercial flight does indeed require approval.....", again you misinterpreted what I was saying. I was not talking about commercial drone usage - I was advising you that I am a Commercial Pilot (Fixed Wing) who has 25 years of flying real aircraft with real people on board and so I have to have a very clear understanding of CASA regs.
Call this guy (details below) at CASA if you still want to argue about it and he will set you straight. What you are stating is just plain dangerous!
Peter Gibson
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
0419 296 446
[email protected]
We (RPA flyers) all need to ensure that what we post in this forum is 100% correct as flyers with little or no understanding of CASA PART 101 regulations may take a comment like the one just made before by yourself as gospel and fly accordingly which could possibly have serious ramifications. Unfortunately you are one of those who just does not understand the regulations fully.
No idea where your located but if you were in say Victoria and detected flying inside 5.5kms of Moorabbin, Essendon, Tullamarine, or even the Heliport on the Yarra River in Melbourne you would be inviting serious trouble from CASA. Again, read the point in RED - could not be any simpler than that.
With regard to your reference re "Commercial flight does indeed require approval.....", again you misinterpreted what I was saying. I was not talking about commercial drone usage - I was advising you that I am a Commercial Pilot (Fixed Wing) who has 25 years of flying real aircraft with real people on board and so I have to have a very clear understanding of CASA regs.
Call this guy (details below) at CASA if you still want to argue about it and he will set you straight. What you are stating is just plain dangerous!
Peter Gibson
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
0419 296 446
[email protected]
I agree and understand your point entirely gunpilot. I am also for the safe flying of all aircraft. While I wait for a reply from CASA, I believe this does simply show that they need to put more effort into clarifying the rules for recreational users.
The Recreational RPA page I linked above only mentions controlled airspace once, saying:
I know that many will/do take this as you are indeed able to fly sub 2kg RPAs in controlled airspace. If this is not the case, then the page should surely specify that you cannot fly in controlled airspace without approval from the tower (or CASA). However it does not (see the confusion?). These types of aircraft also fall into the new excluded RPA category, and I have read as much of the regulations as I can and still am not 100% certain one way or another. I will update as soon as I hear back from CASA themselves.
BP
The regs are in some places a bit confusing to those who have not lived and breathed CASA speak and regs for many years.......
For example, in the CASA video that I have inserted below, at the 53 second mark in the video they say "so keep well away from airports........." This in itself is just a general comment for general public consumption and should not be interpreted as being the letter of the law.
At the same time they are saying this they have an image in the bottom LHS of the video which shows an aircraft taking off over a control tower with the 5.5km exclusion zone marked around it. This is a better communication of the rule but some will still miss it. And the message this is conveying is simple (as per my earlier post in RED)
Remember, most people who get into RPAs do not have an aviation background so CASA just dumb down the messages such as in this video. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL.
The same message is in this next video as well (see below). See 1 minute 30 seconds mark. Does not matter whether your flying for fun (CASA video above) or in the Commercial category (see below video). At least in this below video they say you "must keep your drone at least 5.5km away from controlled aerodromes...". And think about it. if a person flying for commercial purposes who has either had RPAS training and or acquired a Controllers Certificate and or an Operators Certificate is being told to stay outside the 5.5km exclusion zone, why would CASA let young Johnny who got a Phantom for Xmas and has no experience or knowledge of PART 101 fly inside this exclusion zone.?
The rule is consistent - do not fly within 5.5km of a controlled aerodrome, unless you have been granted special dispensation for a particular flight (and that will not be easy to get).
The regs are in some places a bit confusing to those who have not lived and breathed CASA speak and regs for many years.......
For example, in the CASA video that I have inserted below, at the 53 second mark in the video they say "so keep well away from airports........." This in itself is just a general comment for general public consumption and should not be interpreted as being the letter of the law.
At the same time they are saying this they have an image in the bottom LHS of the video which shows an aircraft taking off over a control tower with the 5.5km exclusion zone marked around it. This is a better communication of the rule but some will still miss it. And the message this is conveying is simple (as per my earlier post in RED)
Remember, most people who get into RPAs do not have an aviation background so CASA just dumb down the messages such as in this video. THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL.
The same message is in this next video as well (see below). See 1 minute 30 seconds mark. Does not matter whether your flying for fun (CASA video above) or in the Commercial category (see below video). At least in this below video they say you "must keep your drone at least 5.5km away from controlled aerodromes...". And think about it. if a person flying for commercial purposes who has either had RPAS training and or acquired a Controllers Certificate and or an Operators Certificate is being told to stay outside the 5.5km exclusion zone, why would CASA let young Johnny who got a Phantom for Xmas and has no experience or knowledge of PART 101 fly inside this exclusion zone.?
The rule is consistent - do not fly within 5.5km of a controlled aerodrome, unless you have been granted special dispensation for a particular flight (and that will not be easy to get).
I understand where you're coming from but it's far from consistent.
On all commercial pages/video's it states "do not" fly within the exclusion zone. However on all recreational pages/videos it states "should not". This change in wording is important from a legal perspective and needs to be clarified. CASA cannot expect users to fly legally if they are not using legally correct language on their website. The argument that they "dumb it down" for consumers does not mean they can provide inaccurate advise. After all, we want EVERYONE that flies to be knowledgable and flying legally.
Hopefully it'll be answered clearly once CASA gets back to me.
Yes, it is all in the wording, I think BlakPheonix is getting confused between Controlled Airspace and Controlled Aerodrome, from my understanding Controlled Airspace covers pretty much mainland Australia and Tasmania, so simply put, no matter where you are, no flying over 400Feet AGL and Controlled Aerodromes no flying at ALL within 5.5Km period.
As for unmanned helipads the rule is less restrictive and it is around approach and departure paths and the information can be found in this PDF from CASA website, it's in Appendix A, Page 61 101c01.pdf | Civil Aviation Safety Authority
As for unmanned helipads the rule is less restrictive and it is around approach and departure paths and the information can be found in this PDF from CASA website, it's in Appendix A, Page 61 101c01.pdf | Civil Aviation Safety Authority
bakerboy
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Probably because, as already mentioned, it uses shall not for hobby and must not for commercial, and you used videos outlining both uses
Tips & Tools: Word suggestions
Why we are saying shall not, as mentioned in the hobby side of the regs, is open for interpretation
Hi Roger
Your spot on - he is definitely confused. Guess that is understandable from those not conversant with aviation and CASA jargon. Some people just subscribe to the "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" ideology.
Common sense tells you that if an experienced, licensed RPA organisation/operator cannot fly within 5.5 kms of a controlled airport then why would anyone think that an absolute newbie to RPA operation would be a less risky proposition and allowed by CASA to mix it up with controlled airport operations. Airports/helipads that are classed as Controlled have control towers as the number of movements in and out of these airport facilities are of a magnitude that warrant ATC services. EG, Moorabbin, Essendon, Tullamarine, Bankstown, Mascot, Bankstown, Jandakot, Coolangatta, Brisbane, Uluru, Alice Springs etc etc...
Thats what frustrates me the most - people talking about stuff that they are not qualified to comment on. And its this basic lack of awareness of the air legislation in Australia by RPA flyers that really worries the General Aviation and regular passenger carrier organisations and pilots. Thats why Senator Xenaphon is campaigning in Canberra right now to have the recently introduced RPA reg amendments rescinded - he is being lobbied heavily by the Aviation industry as they see the safety issues arising from the general public who fly RPAs with little understanding of what is legal and illegal. It will only take one major incident with an RPA for CASA to shut the door on us and bring in draconian laws that will see it very difficult to comply with regs and fly legally.
Thats it, fed up with trying to get a very simple message across - if you cannot get it thru your head that your wrong, just go and fly within say 2 or 3 ks of a controlled airport like Tulla, Mascot, Coolangatta etc and see how long it takes for the authorities to turn up. Unbelievably stupid, and downright frightening lack of understanding being shown here by armchair experts. I must be talking to 6 year olds here................... believe what you want - it won't make it right.
bakerboy
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So you were talking about the one he withdrew?
Just pointing out it's open to interpretation, and has been confirmed by other operators on other sites that it varies on commercial/hobby
Don't chuck a tanty like a 6 year old, just acknowledge it's worded wrong and open to interpretation because of that, why do you think I posted the link about shall not/must not
Just pointing out it's open to interpretation, and has been confirmed by other operators on other sites that it varies on commercial/hobby
Don't chuck a tanty like a 6 year old, just acknowledge it's worded wrong and open to interpretation because of that, why do you think I posted the link about shall not/must not
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