Auto switch to SPORT (increase angle) - high wind?

[chriscuk]

I've searched around to see if there is any reasoning or discussion on this already but does anyone know a reason why the mini doesn't jump to a "S" mode if it encounters really strong wind just to return home? It looks like on the Air and other models when it encounters high wind loads it'll automatically allow extra angle to fight the wind.

It seems like the Mini is missing something here as there are probably a few cases where people would have saved their drone if the device automatically allowed faster speeds when struggling. Maybe not yaw control, just forwards movement.

 

[Meta4]

It looks like on the Air and other models when it encounters high wind loads it'll automatically allow extra angle to fight the wind.

Are you sure about that?
I've never seen it in any recorded flight data.
The only way to get Sport Mode is to physically switch to Sport Mode.

 

[old man mavic]

it doesn't really matter what mode it is in,it is not designed to be flown in excessive winds even in sport mode if the wind is stronger than the max speed of the drone it will still be blown backwards the moment you get a high wind warning ,you need to descend ,choose sport mode and try to fly home moving forwards and descending at the same time,if at this point you are still not making any progress then try to find somewhere safe to land,

 

[chriscuk]

Are you sure about that?
I've never seen it in any recorded flight data.
The only way to get Sport Mode is to physically switch to Sport Mode.

I'll dig through the videos but I'm sure Ian In London showed something with the air in high wind then commented how the pro2 automatically allowed more angle.

I agree people should fly to the conditions but it makes sense if there is more power there to allow it automatically.

Okay, it turns off its forward collision sensors automatically allowing it to fly into the wind more.

 

[Meta4]

I'll dig through the videos but I'm sure Ian In London showed something with the air in high wind then commented how the pro2 automatically allowed more angle.

I agree people should fly to the conditions but it makes sense if there is more power there to allow it automatically.

Okay, it turns off its forward collision sensors automatically allowing it to fly into the wind more.

That sounds confused too.
If your flight mode switch is in P-GPS and you turn off obstacle avoidance, the drone will tilt to the max angle for P-GPS.
But it's still not as much as Sport Mode.
If you physically switch to Sport Mode, then the drone disables OA because it can't work at larger tilt angles.

Or to put it another way, using obstacle avoidance, reduces the tilt angle and potential speed.
If you leave OA enabled, you won't have as much speed as your drone is capable of in P-GPS mode.

 

[old man mavic]

none of the dji drones can select sport mode themselves ,what Ian was referring to was the ability of the different drones to be able to fly faster,because their angle of attack was greater than that of the MM,what you must remember is that a drones ability to fly in any direction, is the fact it can constantly alter the speed of its contra rotating pairs of blades front to back side to side and two diagonal ones when it yaws,because of its size and the amount of thrust that its small blades produce ,and its lower power from a two cell battery then unfortunately the MM lacks the ability to fly in high winds end of story

 

[Lastrexking]

The Air doesn’t automatically switch. You need to do it manually.
Also, as @old man mavic quite rightly said, don’t fly Minis in high wind to start with.

 

[chriscuk]

I can only go by Ian's video but:

mavic pro - colision avoidance on by default - limits pitch
mavic air - auto disables sensors
mavic pro 2 - auto disables sensors

So whilst it's still "P" mode its like having P and "P+". It doesn't jump automatically to S but the "P+" allows it to attack the wind with greater angle. Maybe something like this for the Mini would allow it to cope better in the wind.

Lots of people seem to be relying on RTH when in difficulty and if this allowed the extra angle then surely it could safe a few mishaps. It's clear that the maximum angle is controlled as in wind I still achieved maximum claimed speeds for P and S with a nice tail wind.

 

[RogerDH]

Sport mode probably doesn't allow the maximum possible speed. I think they should implement an "emergency" mode for fighting wind that, instead of having a fixed maximum tilt, would dynamically maximize tilt until the drone starts to lose altitude.

 

[Lastrexking]

Sport mode probably doesn't allow the maximum possible speed. I think they should implement an "emergency" mode for fighting wind that, instead of having a fixed maximum tilt, would dynamically maximize tilt until the drone starts to lose altitude.

I think that would cause more problems than it solves. People are over reliant on automated systems and should learn to fly their drones and judge the weather better instead.

 

[Meta4]

mavic pro - colision avoidance on by default - limits pitch
mavic air - auto disables sensors
mavic pro 2 - auto disables sensors

They all have default settings that you can change if you choose to.
But none of these auto disable anything.
When your video guy says at 4:12 that the Mavic 2 in P mode auto disables OA, he is incorrect.
If you have OA enabled, you get OA.
If you disable OA, you get extra speed because OA is disabled and the drone can tilt further.

If you choose to fly with OA enabled in any of them, your P-GPS speed is less than the max possible P-GPS speed.

 

[RogerDH]

I think that would cause more problems than it solves. People are over reliant on automated systems and should learn to fly their drones and judge the weather better instead.

What problems would that cause? Anyway, it's an "automated system" that limits the tilt in Sport mode, and you can't override it with your flying skills. The problem I was addressing is that people are losing their drones because judging wind speed at altitude is hard to do without sending something up into it, and predicted speeds aren't always accurate.

People should learn to drive their cars and judge traffic conditions better, too, but I'm betting that when self-driving cars become the norm, death rates will go way down.

 

[Meta4]

judging wind speed at altitude is hard to do without sending something up into it, and predicted speeds aren't always accurate.

But when you fly your drone it's very easy to judge the wind speed.
You start by flying directly into the wind and see how it affects your drone's speed.
The Mini can fly at 8 metres/sec in still air in P-GPS mode.
If you can only manage 3 m/s into the wind, you know that's what your RTH speed would be if RTH is into a headwind.
But because you started flying into the wind instead of flying with the wind, you know what the wind is doing and what that does for the drone's performance, before the drone is a mile away and being blown further.

If flyers had a tiny bit of wind sense, they could avoid all their wind problems.

 

[RogerDH]

But when you fly your drone it's very easy to judge the wind speed.
You start by flying directly into the wind and see how it affects your drone's speed.
The Mini can fly at 8 metres/sec in still air in P-GPS mode.
If you can only manage 3 m/s into the wind, you know that's what your RTH speed would be if RTH is into a headwind.
But because you started flying into the wind instead of flying with the wind, you know what the wind is doing and what that does for the drone's performance, before the drone is a mile away and being blown further.

If flyers had a tiny bit of wind sense, they could avoid all their wind problems.

So, you've very carefully judged that wind speed is no problem, you fly a few hundred meters away and the wind picks up...

Really, I understand what you guys are saying, but I don't see that as any real objection to my suggestion to having a "maximum speed" mode.

 

[chriscuk]

It's like cars, they'll step in to help where necessary. Brake assist, you've hit the brakes X amount and they'll step in to help. Varying levels of driving modes.
In my car there is Eco, Comfort, Sport, Sport + and then DSC off. You can vary the levels of steering and throttle on a few of the modes and you can do other stuff. If I give a LOT more throttle it in eco it will know that I need the power and suddenly deliver it.

I think it's daft to say it will create more problems than it solves. They've clearly decided the max speed is 29mph based on something. Maybe its the max power of the motors, maybe its the max allowed tilt. Either way they know what this is and there is no reason to not allow the extra tilt if wind speed picks up. With a strong headwind you don't need full power to hit the 29mph speed but even if you're giving it full throttle it wont go faster because it limits it. Clearly they could allow it to tilt more in P yet maintain the lower max speed for high wind situations. It's not like in high wind you're going to be going faster than the normal P mode would allow anyway.

I get that everyone is slagging off the people who crash the minis due to the wind but there are lots of experienced pilots crashing them and whilst it's known to swap out to sport or do other stuff it'd make sense if the drone simply allowed a greater angle in high wind load situations automatically.

 

[Meta4]

So, you've very carefully judged that wind speed is no problem, you fly a few hundred meters away and the wind picks up...

Really, I understand what you guys are saying, but I don't see that as any real objection to my suggestion to having a "maximum speed" mode.

If you are flying into the wind and watching your speed, you won't have any nasty surprises and can easily return home.
If you just lazily fly off downwind, you don't know you have a problem until it's a big problem.
The Mini already has a Max Speed mode, it's called Sport Mode, but it still won't be much help against a strong wind.

 

[Meta4]

there is no reason to not allow the extra tilt if wind speed picks up.
Clearly they could allow it to tilt more in P yet maintain the lower max speed for high wind situations.

Suggest it to DJI's propulsion engineers.
There may be good reasons you can't guess for what they have designed.

 

[sar104]

It's like cars, they'll step in to help where necessary. Brake assist, you've hit the brakes X amount and they'll step in to help. Varying levels of driving modes.
In my car there is Eco, Comfort, Sport, Sport + and then DSC off. You can vary the levels of steering and throttle on a few of the modes and you can do other stuff. If I give a LOT more throttle it in eco it will know that I need the power and suddenly deliver it.

I think it's daft to say it will create more problems than it solves. They've clearly decided the max speed is 29mph based on something. Maybe its the max power of the motors, maybe its the max allowed tilt. Either way they know what this is and there is no reason to not allow the extra tilt if wind speed picks up. With a strong headwind you don't need full power to hit the 29mph speed but even if you're giving it full throttle it wont go faster because it limits it. Clearly they could allow it to tilt more in P yet maintain the lower max speed for high wind situations. It's not like in high wind you're going to be going faster than the normal P mode would allow anyway.

I get that everyone is slagging off the people who crash the minis due to the wind but there are lots of experienced pilots crashing them and whilst it's known to swap out to sport or do other stuff it'd make sense if the drone simply allowed a greater angle in high wind load situations automatically.

In all the modes the limits are both tilt and ground speed - whichever is achieved first. The P-mode limits are primarily to allow OA to work properly. The S-mode tilt limit is to keep the aircraft within its flight performance envelope - you can increase it with a parameter modification but at higher tilts it is unable to climb properly, and eventually cannot even maintain altitude.

As for auto-switching to higher tilts when it detects that it cannot hold position or RTH - that idea has some obvious potential advantages, but would disable OA. And then there is the question of quite how autonomous you want these aircraft to be. One could argue that some reasonable level of pilot knowledge of how to fly the aircraft in varying conditions should be expected before taking to the air at all.

 

[RogerDH]

(snip)
The Mini already has a Max Speed mode, it's called Sport Mode...

Well, if that's the case, my suggestion is obviously superfluous but I made it because, as I said, I doubt that. As sar104 points out, Sport mode needs to reserve some power for climbing and maneuvering, and I'm talking about an "emergency" mode when all you want is maximum speed to fight the wind. Since the drone can know when it's tilted too far to maintain altitude, it seems there could be an autonomous dynamic mode to do that.

 

[chriscuk]

It's like cars where you can dynamically limit traction. I can put mine into a mode where I can drift around corners with effort as it steps in to limit it or I can turn it off and it'll just smoke the tyres and if I dump it into a ditch it's my fault.