Camera has terrible wavy lines throughout

SackboyDad · Dec 9, 2016

The fact is winds that are less than its maximum wind specs should not be causing anything like this jello effect. I had a P3P since it came out and never one single time did I ever have any issue with this.

I think we are looking at design flaw in either the aircraft itself or the gimbal.

I can hear the approach of the class-action lawyers as we speak [emoji51]. They have a nose for these things. I'm still getting class action notices on floppy disk drive price fixing lawsuits from like 10 years ago!

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CactusJackSlade · Dec 9, 2016

OK PEOPLE... Jello effect is a WELL KNOWN issue in the multirotor world and a WELL KNOWN CURE (95% of the time) - All multi-rotor platforms can suffer from this, the cure 95% of the time is ND filters on the camera, Before you get all yanked out of shape try ND filters... They will slow down your shutter speed and 95% of the time it will rid your video of rolling shutter (jello) if you still have a problem, then take another look at prop balance, things touching the gimbal from the frame, loose, bad or too stiff gimbal mounts etc...

Yes, the cold can affect the mounts...

I tried in vain on one of my 'copters, tried everything, balanced props, exotic gimbal mounts etc.... ND filters did the trick. Did the trick on my Phantom 2's with GoPro's and Phantom 3 Pro as well.

As soon as I ordered my Mavic I ordered a set of PolarPro ND filters. .

CactusJackSlade · Dec 9, 2016

I will say this video is extreme and slightly different than the normal jello I've seen... but I would still try ND filters...

AAPhoto · Dec 10, 2016

I took my Mavic out for it's 2nd flight today. The first flight was in about 28 degree (F) temps, no wind, and at sunset, and everything worked perfectly. Today, I just wanted to do a test flight above the house but it was 16 degrees (F) with high winds gusting 15-25mph and the sun was blaring (higher shutter speeds). I live on the side of a mountain so the winds were calm when I took her up. The first few minutes went well, but at the end of my flight, I began receiving alerts for high winds, started to take her down, and that's when I started seeing the same wavy lines as the OP. Right now, I'm going to attribute it to perhaps the cold temps (borderline the lowest temp they recommend for the battery) and the high winds. I'm hoping it doesn't persist in future flights and will keep everyone here posted.

In regards to ND filters, I also pre-ordered the 6-pack Polar Pro filters (that's what I used on my Phantom 3 and they were awesome). They arrived yesterday, or so I thought. PolarPro sent me the 3-pack by accident. I sent them back this morning and will wait for the 6-pack. Will test with those as well once they arrive.

SackboyDad · Dec 10, 2016

CactusJackSlade said:
OK PEOPLE... Jello effect is a WELL KNOWN issue in the multirotor world and a WELL KNOWN CURE (95% of the time) - All multi-rotor platforms can suffer from this, the cure 95% of the time is ND filters on the camera, Before you get all yanked out of shape try ND filters... They will slow down your shutter speed and 95% of the time it will rid your video of rolling shutter (jello) if you still have a problem, then take another look at prop balance, things touching the gimbal from the frame, loose, bad or too stiff gimbal mounts etc...

Yes, the cold can affect the mounts...

I tried in vain on one of my 'copters, tried everything, balanced props, exotic gimbal mounts etc.... ND filters did the trick. Did the trick on my Phantom 2's with GoPro's and Phantom 3 Pro as well.

As soon as I ordered my Mavic I ordered a set of PolarPro ND filters. .

Hi. I understand what you're saying but there's more to it..... This last winter I took my P3Pro up when it was 16 degrees F outside -- no ND filter at all. Not once - ever - did I have any rolling shutter or jello effect.

Please see this video:
I deliberately pulled a portion of the raw footage where I was whipping all over the place. even then, there was no rolling shutter. I really think we are looking at some kind of design flaw in the Mavic -- or maybe an ongoing manufacturing defect. Yes, if you're whipping all over the place you should expect to see rolling shutter because of the inherent temporal issues with CMOS sensors. Unless you're wlling to spend $70,000 on a Sony F-65 you're always gonna have rolling shutter without a mechanical shutter to back it up (hello Phantom 4 Pro).

But this huge issue:
Yes, this video is TECHNICALLY rolling shutter - because there is SO MUCH movement that you're seeing the temporal limitations of the CMOS sensor at its very worst. But this is just the symptom of a greater issue...... This is either a defect in the gimbal or the aircraft is so unstable that the gimbal cannot keep up with it. No ND filter is going to solve either of these two problems.

beachcombing · Dec 10, 2016

So have you sent it back yet?

AAPhoto · Dec 10, 2016

Update: I just few the Mavic in my basement for 15 minutes and had zero jello. So, I can confirm that I don't have any jello with slower shutter speeds, no wind, and warmer temps. I'm looking forward to getting my filters so I can do another daytime, blaring sun, test with more control over the shutter speed. Stay tuned.

Sidenote - I also did not have this issue with the P3P, but looking back, I always used ND filters, and looking at the physical size difference of the cameras, I don't think we can say they are exactly the same. I can spend time doing tests with the P3P as well, but the way the P3P behaves, to me, is irrelevant. As was mentioned, rolling shutter can be an issue with any moving camera (GoPro is famous for it) and therefore, that's the issue/effect i'm going to try to eliminate in my testing.

Peter Neis · Dec 10, 2016

I Sackboy, seems that some vibrations of the Mavic pro reaches the gimbal, what not should be. The gimbal has 4 "noses" which hold it free swinging (sorry for my bad english) in 4 rubbers . If one of these noses is tilt, the vibrations of mavic body are transmitted to the gimbal. Seen a video about that issue, but don't find it. Have some pictures.

AAPhoto · Dec 10, 2016

Peter Neis said:
I Sackboy, seems that some vibrations of the Mavic pro reaches the gimbal, what not should be. The gimbal has 4 "noses" which hold it free swinging (sorry for my bad english) in 4 rubbers . If one of these noses is tilt, the vibrations of mavic body are transmitted to the gimbal. Seen a video about that issue, but don't find it. Have some pictures.
View attachment 2284 View attachment 2285

Thank you for this. That was the first thing I checked and everything was/ is fine. I believe the OP checked as well, but if not, it's worth looking into.

SackboyDad · Dec 10, 2016

Peter Neis said:
I Sackboy, seems that some vibrations of the Mavic pro reaches the gimbal, what not should be. The gimbal has 4 "noses" which hold it free swinging (sorry for my bad english) in 4 rubbers . If one of these noses is tilt, the vibrations of mavic body are transmitted to the gimbal. Seen a video about that issue, but don't find it. Have some pictures.
View attachment 2284 View attachment 2285

Thanks. That was the very first thing I checked. Then dji had me check that too before sending me a pre-paid label to send it back for replacement

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Aryeh · Dec 10, 2016

I've had no crashes. I've done imu, gimbal, and compass calibration, my gimbal is in the right place, and I still have terrible jello.
It is around 30°f here but its the Northeast in the winter and I shouldn't have to wait till April to fly my new drone.

duelingglove · Dec 10, 2016

If it's cold have Mavic warm up first, good luck!

Sent from [emoji211]

halley · Dec 10, 2016

Aryeh said:
I still have terrible jello.

Jello is due to vibrations. Vibrations on machinery are generally due to imbalanced motors. The easiest thing to be out of balance on the Mavic is the propellers. Inspect them closely. Swap them all for new ones. The gimbal should be able to counteract jerkiness and slower movements of the aircraft but won't be able to counteract the vibrations from out-of-balance motors.

What I find interesting on this forum is all the talk about how ND filters "fix" the issue. It doesn't fix anything, it can't. Slowing the shutter time just hides the jello a bit by averaging the exposure through a longer period of time. Optically, that would be reducing the resolving power, cutting contrast, or blurring some edges.

SackboyDad · Dec 10, 2016

halley said:
Jello is due to vibrations. Vibrations on machinery are generally due to imbalanced motors. The easiest thing to be out of balance on the Mavic is the propellers. Inspect them closely. Swap them all for new ones. The gimbal should be able to counteract jerkiness and slower movements of the aircraft but won't be able to counteract the vibrations from out-of-balance motors.

What I find interesting on this forum is all the talk about how ND filters "fix" the issue. It doesn't fix anything, it can't. Slowing the shutter time just hides the jello a bit by averaging the exposure through a longer period of time. Optically, that would be reducing the resolving power, cutting contrast, or blurring some edges.

Couldn't agree with you more. The motion blur will kind of hide the rolling shutter but not stop it. Case in point..... I go on jobs where I have to use a 900mm lens because I've got to be completely out of the way of what I'm being hired to film (think being relegated to the back of a church or crowd at an event). Even with an ND32 or ND64, even the slightest - and I mean slightest - movement of the camera at that focal length will produce unacceptable rolling shutter because at only about a 2 degree field of view any movement no matter how small is greatly amplified.... like an unstable drone with a gimbal trying to keep up.

I really think we dealing with some design defect on the mavic. This massive jello effect, caused likely by an unstable aircraft, happened on my first flight with a brand new aircraft. No crashes, nothing.

If it is, indeed, props then they're putting bad props in new aircraft boxes.

It'll be interesting to see how my replacement aircraft handles.

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AAPhoto · Dec 11, 2016

It will definitely be interested to see if the new craft has the same issues. So far, everyone I've seen experiencing this issue has been flying is sub-32 degree (F) temps. So, I'm also curious if DJI will mention that at all. Reading their specifications for the Mavic, I found the Operating temperature is only 32-104 degrees. Of course, if it's unrelated to temperature, then I foresee DJI handing out plenty of replacements. I will need to contact them as well depending on the outcome of your return. it's winter in Maine, so I can't perform any tests above 32 degrees until over 2 weeks from now if the predicted warm front actually passes through.

AAPhoto · Dec 11, 2016

I just went out and did another test. Still cold (20ºF), no wind, and sunny. The wavy video appeared right from the beginning, from before takeoff, before I started recording, and continued for the entire flight. I put the plastic protective bubble on and they completely went away...not even a trace. I flew around like that and had no issues, other than the glare and flaring caused by the bubble.

Now I'm wondering if the propellers are directing turbulance to the camera causing it to vibrate, either due to badly balanced propellers or out of sync motors. What do you guys think?

I'm heading out, but later I'll replace the front propellers with the spares to see if that changes anything.

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SackboyDad · Dec 11, 2016

AAPhoto said:
It will definitely be interested to see if the new craft has the same issues. So far, everyone I've seen experiencing this issue has been flying is sub-32 degree (F) temps. So, I'm also curious if DJI will mention that at all. Reading their specifications for the Mavic, I found the Operating temperature is only 32-104 degrees. Of course, if it's unrelated to temperature, then I foresee DJI handing out plenty of replacements. I will need to contact them as well depending on the outcome of your return. it's winter in Maine, so I can't perform any tests above 32 degrees until over 2 weeks from now if the predicted warm front actually passes through.
View attachment 2306

I have never flown my mavic in sub-freezing temps. The times my jello happened it was low to mid 50's with wind no greater than 10-15mph

I do not believe this is a temperature issue

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Aryeh · Dec 11, 2016

AAPhoto said:
I just went out and did another test. Still cold (20ºF), no wind, and sunny. The wavy video appeared right from the beginning, from before takeoff, before I started recording, and continued for the entire flight. I put the plastic protective bubble on and they completely went away...not even a trace. I flew around like that and had no issues, other than the glare and flaring caused by the bubble.

Now I'm wondering if the propellers are directing turbulance to the camera causing it to vibrate, either due to badly balanced propellers or out of sync motors. What do you guys think?

I'm heading out, but later I'll replace the front propellers with the spares to see if that changes anything.

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I just ordered 2 pairs of spare props from Apple for pickup today, and I'll see if that helps, I sure hope it does, because this thing is so awesome.

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AAPhoto · Dec 12, 2016

Update: I heard from another Mavic owner that when he contacted DJI, they admitted some Mavics had bad gimbal control boards. It's only a 5 minute fix for DJI and turnaround time is about a week (ship out, repair, ship back). So, I've contacted DJI to have the repair done. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

Daniel Yee · Dec 13, 2016

I have jello effect only in one flight... that was in -6C (21F) with pretty strong winds. And that was the only jello out of my 10+ flights. Do let us know how what is DJI's response; if its a defect I would like mine repaired as well.