Can someone explain these numbers to me?

[itsneedtokno]

Yes. This is a controlled airspace

The is a controlled airspace, though from the picture I cannot speak to the exact nature of why is is controlled, but the numbers refer to the elevation to which you can get permission to fly in a particular zone. There are some zones that read 0 where you cannot fly at all and others that you can fly to 400 ft. If it says 300 you can get permission to fly to 300 ft. Anywhere in this region you will need to file a flight plan with a LAANC tool like AirMap or Kittyhawk. Your DJI drone won’t even let you take off until you get a confirmation to your flight plan.

Okay now, understanding that this is Class D and the other is Class B... Why is it that if I check all the boxes on my auto unlock (provided inside the FLY app upon take off), I can fly to whatever altitude I want here.

I am by NO MEANS saying it is the right thing to do, as that is an approach for a runway, but... I'm just trying to get better informed.


Please help me understand.

Thanks guys.

Let's get some CLARITY here...

Those #'s are altitudes you "could" get clearance to fly at via LAANC. We're not talking the DJI GEOZONE system but the FAA's LAANC system. Those #'s are just a "guidance" to suggest that it's probably useless to ask for 400'AGL in a 100'AGL sector.

While it's possible to get approval to fly higher than the noted alt (many of us have many times) it's not something you're likely to get approved via the LAANC portal.

Also it's important to note that those noted #'s are not a guarantee that you will get approved up to that altitude. Airspace is very dynamic and things can change to make a noted altitude NOT available. They are just a guidelines and not a guarantee for approval if requested.

Any flights within Controlled Airspace must have FAA/LAANC approval to fly period.... that altitude is not a "Safe to fly altitude without approval". The FAA needs to make this abundantly more clear as this misunderstanding is very common. Too many people just "look & assume" without knowing what they are really looking at.

You need to be very careful when flying in an area with multiple (and possibly overlapping) airspace categories. I have seen some good and informative responses in this thread and others that are not correct. Here is what to look for:

• The FAA issues TFRs for any major sporting event. You may agree or disagree but that doesn't really matter. Without a waiver (which you will not get) you cannot fly at all inside the area during the TFR.
• Distance from an airport (i.e. 5 miles) does not matter as it did in the past. There is no longer a 5-mile rule.
• When you want to fly in controlled airspace (as is the case here with Miami Class B airspace) you do need to look at the UAS facilities data grid as you see. However seeing a 300 (or 200 or 400) does NOT mean that you can automatically fly to that altitude whenever you wish. It means that you must apply for and receive LAANC authorization for the time and place you want to fly. Usually you will receive authorization quickly and easily but that is never guaranteed. Do NOT fly there unless you have LAANC authorization.

 

[PhantomFandom]

Okay now, understanding that this is Class D and the other is Class B... Why is it that if I check all the boxes on my auto unlock (provided inside the FLY app upon take off), I can fly to whatever altitude I want here.

I am by NO MEANS saying it is the right thing to do, as that is an approach for a runway, but... I'm just trying to get better informed.


Please help me understand.

That is because the Fly app (or any DJI app) is only alerting you to potential flight restrictions. It is left upon you (the pilot) to assume responsibility to actually check for controlled airspace and obtain any and all required authorizations prior to flight. DJI does not control airspace; only the FAA does. The GEO zones in the DJI apps are next to useless because they most often do not correspond directly to controlled airspace and other restrictions. Thus it is always of the utmost importance to check with the authoritative source (FAA) whenever flying.

 

[itsneedtokno]

That is because the Fly app (or any DJI app) is only alerting you to potential flight restrictions. It is left upon you (the pilot) to assume responsibility to actually check for controlled airspace and obtain any and all required authorizations prior to flight. DJI does not control airspace; only the FAA does. The GEO zones in the DJI apps are next to useless because they most often do not correspond directly to controlled airspace and other restrictions. Thus it is always of the utmost importance to check with the authoritative source (FAA) whenever flying.

Okay, I always do, but just wanted clarification on the DJI side, because as you stated and I have noticed, the DJI app is hardly ever correct.

 

[Dale D]

Okay, I always do, but just wanted clarification on the DJI side, because as you stated and I have noticed, the DJI app is hardly ever correct.

OK- First let me say sorry for the quasi-political comment.

Back to the subject...Here is a screen shot from stock photo of where I would have liked to fly yesterday. I would have done a flight directly towards downtown (flying away from the airport direction) just above the height of the wires and buildings, in direct line of sight, for no more than a 10 second clip. I guess the height would have been about 50 feet or so. I have previously shown my AirMap warnings, which showed that I was in a blue zone and a red triangle. I did not check the B4UFly app (although I have it). I did not try to start the drone (it was left in my car) while I photographed. (BTW- this is a dicey neighborhood and if I am going to be robbed, the less gear I have, the better). So I guess my questions are, (1) should I have tried to get permission? (2) do I just ask for it on the AirMap app?

 

[JimWest]

OK- First let me say sorry for the quasi-political comment.

Back to the subject...Here is a screen shot from stock photo of where I would have liked to fly yesterday. I would have done a flight directly towards downtown (flying away from the airport direction) just above the height of the wires and buildings, in direct line of sight, for no more than a 10 second clip. I guess the height would have been about 50 feet or so. I have previously shown my AirMap warnings, which showed that I was in a blue zone and a red triangle. I did not check the B4UFly app (although I have it). I did not try to start the drone (it was left in my car) while I photographed. (BTW- this is a dicey neighborhood and if I am going to be robbed, the less gear I have, the better). So I guess my questions are, (1) should I have tried to get permission? (2) do I just ask for it on the AirMap app?

Yes--just apply for LAANC permission on AirMap (or one of the other aps). If approved, you should get a text granting permission within a few seconds. If you are in the temporary no fly zone, you won't get permission.

 

[Scubadiver1944]

OK- First let me say sorry for the quasi-political comment.

Back to the subject...Here is a screen shot from stock photo of where I would have liked to fly yesterday. I would have done a flight directly towards downtown (flying away from the airport direction) just above the height of the wires and buildings, in direct line of sight, for no more than a 10 second clip. I guess the height would have been about 50 feet or so. I have previously shown my AirMap warnings, which showed that I was in a blue zone and a red triangle. I did not check the B4UFly app (although I have it). I did not try to start the drone (it was left in my car) while I photographed. (BTW- this is a dicey neighborhood and if I am going to be robbed, the less gear I have, the better). So I guess my questions are, (1) should I have tried to get permission? (2) do I just ask for it on the AirMap app?

Thanks for that Dale. Your drone-related posts are always interesting and highly welcome.

 

[Dale D]

Yes--just apply for LAANC permission on AirMap (or one of the other aps). If approved, you should get a text granting permission within a few seconds. If you are in the temporary no fly zone, you won't get permission.

PERFECT! That is what I wanted to hear. I'll try another trip down there. Today I get a

Thanks for that Dale. Your drone-related posts are always interesting and highly welcome.

So TODAY (not a Marlins game) here is what my AirMap says- see screen grabs. The warning now is yellow (or orange?) instead of red, and it says I can fly below 300 feet which is WAY more than I needed. So I guess I'll just apply for the permission?

 

[jag32266]

Here's a link to the USA LAANC map. Note not all airports are involved in this as yet and I believe the GREEN shows the ones that are in the LAANC system. Currently the other colors denote airports not involved as they rollout the program. This system allows the instantaneous approval for flights after a plan is submitted. Other means of filing plans gaining approval are avail but will take time.

ArcGIS Web Application

faa.maps.arcgis.com

 

[BigAl07]

Here's a link to the USA LAANC map. Note not all airports are involved in this as yet and I believe the GREEN shows the ones that are in the LAANC system. Currently the other colors denote airports not involved as they rollout the program. This system allows the instantaneous approval for flights after a plan is submitted. Other means of filing plans gaining approval are avail but will take time.

ArcGIS Web Application

faa.maps.arcgis.com

I'd edit that to say "instantaneous notification" because approval is assumed and not guaranteed. Many people are absolutely shocked when their "request" is denied even when it's within the "Grid Altitude". Airport operations are very dynamic and things can change that affect flight patterns etc and an area that "should" or has been approved previously can suddenly be a DENIAL area but maps are not edited to reflect those dynamic changes.

 

[Dale D]

I'd edit that to say "instantaneous notification" because approval is assumed and not guaranteed. Many people are absolutely shocked when their "request" is denied even when it's within the "Grid Altitude". Airport operations are very dynamic and things can change that affect flight patterns etc and an area that "should" or has been approved previously can suddenly be a DENIAL area but maps are not edited to reflect those dynamic changes.

So yesterday, I flew from the spot indicated. You will see that it is in the pink zone and had a red triangle. I tried 3 to 4 times to get approval through Air Map but after I checked all of the parameters it just shut down and never gave me a decision. The phone just went right back to the home screen. See the two attachments. The overall view shows where I am in relation to the huge Miami International Airport. The 2nd view shows where I flew from. I flew only to about 50-60 feet above the river and only flew about 200 feet. I stopped before any roadway or bridge. The good news was that my drone started right up and I had no trouble getting it airborne. The AirmMap request just kept shutting down without any disapproval or approval.

 

[JimWest]

Well you're in controlled airspace, so you absolutely cannot fly there at any time unless you get FAA permission through LAANC or DroneZone. Whether or not your drone starts up and flies is irrelevant.

 

[Dale D]

Well you're in controlled airspace, so you absolutely cannot fly there at any time unless you get FAA permission through LAANC or DroneZone. Whether or not your drone starts up and flies is irrelevant.

Lance says I can fly there up to 300 feet but I only went up about 50- 60ft

 

[JimWest]

Lance says I can fly there up to 300 feet but I only went up about 50- 60ft

You have to get approval to fly to any altitude in controlled airspace. The 300 feet is an indication of what will often be approved. It is not automatic. If you did not get approval, your altitude limit is 0.

 

[BigAl07]

Lance says I can fly there up to 300 feet but I only went up about 50- 60ft

That # on the grid only tells you how high you are "likely" to get approval. It doesn't mean you're good to go to that Alt but this is a VERY common misunderstanding.

In all honesty, your flight was illegal without LAANC Authorization sir.

 

[PhantomFandom]

So yesterday, I flew from the spot indicated. You will see that it is in the pink zone and had a red triangle. I tried 3 to 4 times to get approval through Air Map but after I checked all of the parameters it just shut down and never gave me a decision. The phone just went right back to the home screen. See the two attachments. The overall view shows where I am in relation to the huge Miami International Airport. The 2nd view shows where I flew from. I flew only to about 50-60 feet above the river and only flew about 200 feet. I stopped before any roadway or bridge. The good news was that my drone started right up and I had no trouble getting it airborne. The AirmMap request just kept shutting down without any disapproval or approval.

Hi Dale,

I say this respectfully and without any ill intent. I think you really do need to familiarize yourself much better with the NAS and FAA regulations prior to attempting flights in any areas like these. The flight you just described was completely illegal per FAA regulations because you were in controlled airspace. A few items to review in reference to this whole thread, your questions, and the terminology you are using:

• I know it is confusing with all the different sources. You mention pink zones, red zones, blue zones, etc... There are no such things with the FAA. The FAA only has different classes of airspace (Class A, Class B, Class D, etc...). The FAA is the ONE and ONLY authoritative source for airspace. Nothing else matters. More on this further down.
• I only use AirMap for secondary reference. It usually is right but cannot be depended on entirely. If AirMap is wrong and you have an airspace incursion, you are still at fault as the RPIC. It is your responsibility to check the true source of data (FAA resources).
• The DJI apps (Fly, Go, Go4 etc...) have their own Geo Zones (with associated colors). These mean absolutely nothing. Repeat...nothing. The DJI Geo Zones do not generally line up well with actual FAA controlled airspace. There are instances where the DJI app says everything is clear (and it isn't) and other cases where the DJI app says you can't fly (and you can). It is only a rudimentary safety mechanism to hopefully keep noobies from flying in controlled airspace and getting in trouble and/or hurting people. Again it is not to be depended on since it has no validity with the FAA. Just because it lets you fly does not mean that you are actually allowed to legally fly there.
• Let's look at the actual FAA airspace designation for where you were flying. The best (authoritative) source for that is the FAA VFR Sectional Chart for the area in question. In this case it is the Miami VFR Sectional Chart. Have a look at the snippet below. Notice where you are. That is clearly within the Class B airspace for Miami International Airport. Class B signifies VERY BUSY CONGESTED airspace around a major airport. The ring you are in is controlled airspace from the surface all the way up to 7000 feet (see the circled numbers). That means that the FAA controls all traffic in that area from the SURFACE (yes from the top of the grass tips) on up. So if you were flying at 50 to 60 feet, you were indeed in controlled airspace...and thus illegally flying without authorization to do so.
  
• So now that you know it is controlled airspace, the questions are how do you get authorization there, can you get authorization there, and how high can you expect to get cleared for? That is when we go to another authoritative (FAA) source of data (not AirMap). That would be the FAA UAS Facilities Chart. See the snippet below for where you were flying.
  Notice that it clearly indicates you are in MIA airspace and that the "ceiling" is 300 feet in that particular gris square. This does NOT mean that you are allowed to fly to 300 feet any time you wish. It means that you can usually expect to get authorization to fly up to 300 feet with LAANC. Don't Request anything above 300 feet because it would generally get denied. Don't fly without requesting authorization. Don't fly if authorization is denied. Only fly after you receive authorization and then only in the designated area, only during the approved block of time, only within VLOS, and only up to the maximum approved altitude.

I hope this does clear things up a bit. Yes I know it is probably clear as mud. however, if you look at the only sources that matter (FAA resources), learn to interpret those sources, learn how to apply for LAANC authorization properly, and learn how to fly only when/where you are allowed, then you will be a much better and safer pilot.

I commend you for asking questions and attempting to fly legally and safely.

Hopefully that helped. Cheers!

 

[Dale D]

You have to get approval to fly to any altitude in controlled airspace. The 300 feet is an indication of what will often be approved. It is not automatic. If you did not get approval, your altitude limit is 0.

I understand you, but I was neither able to get or not get the approval! After going through the steps on Air Map it shut down and went back to my phone home page.

Today, just now, at my desk and next to my router, I tried for tonight on Kittyhawk. I got immediate approval for <300ft. So tonight I am going to try to get a pre-sunset (lights coming on in the city buildings) flight along with more timelapse studies. I will

That # on the grid only tells you how high you are "likely" to get approval. It doesn't mean you're good to go to that Alt but this is a VERY common misunderstanding.

In all honesty, your flight was illegal without LAANC Authorization sir.

I just got official LAANC authorization for flying at the same place this evening. Its stated that most flights under 300 feet were automatically authorized. Thanks for your input.

 

[Dale D]

I understand you, but I was neither able to get or not get the approval! After going through the steps on Air Map it shut down and went back to my phone home page.

Today, just now, at my desk and next to my router, I tried for tonight on Kittyhawk. I got immediate approval for <300ft. So tonight I am going to try to get a pre-sunset (lights coming on in the city buildings) flight along with more timelapse studies. I will

I just got official LAANC authorization for flying at the same place this evening. Its stated that most flights under 300 feet were automatically authorized. Thanks for your input.

Here are my approvals

 

[PhantomFandom]

but I was neither able to get or not get the approval! After going through the steps on Air Map it shut down and went back to my phone home page.

This means that the app and/or your phone were having issues. It does not mean that you were authorized to fly there. In such cases, you need to pack up and call it a day.

I just got official LAANC authorization for flying at the same place this evening.

That's great. It is the proper way to do it. I always try to do it in advance because then it negates any technology issues onsite.

Its stated that most flights under 300 feet were automatically authorized

Yes USUALLY but now always. Never depend on automatic authorization as the NAS is very dynamic.

 

[Dale D]

Hi Dale,

I say this respectfully and without any ill intent. I think you really do need to familiarize yourself much better with the NAS and FAA regulations prior to attempting flights in any areas like these. The flight you just described was completely illegal per FAA regulations because you were in controlled airspace. A few items to review in reference to this whole thread, your questions, and the terminology you are using:

• I know it is confusing with all the different sources. You mention pink zones, red zones, blue zones, etc... There are no such things with the FAA. The FAA only has different classes of airspace (Class A, Class B, Class D, etc...). The FAA is the ONE and ONLY authoritative source for airspace. Nothing else matters. More on this further down.
• I only use AirMap for secondary reference. It usually is right but cannot be depended on entirely. If AirMap is wrong and you have an airspace incursion, you are still at fault as the RPIC. It is your responsibility to check the true source of data (FAA resources).
• The DJI apps (Fly, Go, Go4 etc...) have their own Geo Zones (with associated colors). These mean absolutely nothing. Repeat...nothing. The DJI Geo Zones do not generally line up well with actual FAA controlled airspace. There are instances where the DJI app says everything is clear (and it isn't) and other cases where the DJI app says you can't fly (and you can). It is only a rudimentary safety mechanism to hopefully keep noobies from flying in controlled airspace and getting in trouble and/or hurting people. Again it is not to be depended on since it has no validity with the FAA. Just because it lets you fly does not mean that you are actually allowed to legally fly there.
• Let's look at the actual FAA airspace designation for where you were flying. The best (authoritative) source for that is the FAA VFR Sectional Chart for the area in question. In this case it is the Miami VFR Sectional Chart. Have a look at the snippet below. Notice where you are. That is clearly within the Class B airspace for Miami International Airport. Class B signifies VERY BUSY CONGESTED airspace around a major airport. The ring you are in is controlled airspace from the surface all the way up to 7000 feet (see the circled numbers). That means that the FAA controls all traffic in that area from the SURFACE (yes from the top of the grass tips) on up. So if you were flying at 50 to 60 feet, you were indeed in controlled airspace...and thus illegally flying without authorization to do so.
  View attachment 113218
• So now that you know it is controlled airspace, the questions are how do you get authorization there, can you get authorization there, and how high can you expect to get cleared for? That is when we go to another authoritative (FAA) source of data (not AirMap). That would be the FAA UAS Facilities Chart. See the snippet below for where you were flying.
  Notice that it clearly indicates you are in MIA airspace and that the "ceiling" is 300 feet in that particular gris square. This does NOT mean that you are allowed to fly to 300 feet any time you wish. It means that you can usually expect to get authorization to fly up to 300 feet with LAANC. Don't Request anything above 300 feet because it would generally get denied. Don't fly without requesting authorization. Don't fly if authorization is denied. Only fly after you receive authorization and then only in the designated area, only during the approved block of time, only within VLOS, and only up to the maximum approved altitude.View attachment 113217

I hope this does clear things up a bit. Yes I know it is probably clear as mud. however, if you look at the only sources that matter (FAA resources), learn to interpret those sources, learn how to apply for LAANC authorization properly, and learn how to fly only when/where you are allowed, then you will be a much better and safer pilot.

I commend you for asking questions and attempting to fly legally and safely.

Hopefully that helped. Cheers!

I really do appreciate your time and input. That was an amazing presentation and it really scared the s...out of me. However, while doing all of this back and forth corresponding, I managed to actually apply for and actually GET authorization (LAANC) to fly there tonight for 30 minutes and of course, way under 300 feet. (I never go that high anywhere). In a separate post I submitted my LAANC authorizations. Did you get a chance to look at those? Am I ok now? Here they are again.

 

[PhantomFandom]

I really do appreciate your time and input. That was an amazing presentation and it really scared the s...out of me. However, while doing all of this back and forth corresponding, I managed to actually apply for and actually GET authorization (LAANC) to fly there tonight for 30 minutes and of course, way under 300 feet. (I never go that high anywhere). In a separate post I submitted my LAANC authorizations. Did you get a chance to look at those? Am I ok now? Here they are again.

Yes i saw that and it looks great.

Just make sure to stay within that square area you applied for, under the maximum altitude, only within the time specified and always within VLOS.

Good job Dale.