[Canada] Urgent: How to prove "Basic" skills (TP-15263) without being a citizen

[kingsnake11]

Hi Hendrik...actually, that is what I said...All other airspace is considered G class....so that is anywhere that is not C,D,E or F. There is a debate as to exactly what the exemption means as some interpret it as certification is not required as long as you are flying at a MAAC field. As I said, almost all MAAC fields are in some form of controlled airspace, so the exemption for all practical purposes is at MAAC fields. For example, I fly out of a MAAC field in Surrey B.C. it is in Class C airspace as it is directly below the approach to Vancouver International. As long as we adhere to the 400 ft AGL rule, and stay within the defined area of the MAAC flying area, then no certification is needed, nor any special approval. The second anyone flies above 400 AGL feet, or exits the confines of the field, they have technically broken the rules and are in violation with TC. We are actually trying to negotiate a higher ceiling for gliders but that may be a pipe dream. It would be nice, but the safety rules are just that. The MAAC requirements for marking are the membership number, the website for MAAC, and the MAAC phone number. Your own number is optional. The reason for the debate is over which of the rules apply to MAAC members who fly in class G airspace...ie uncontrolled airspace. As you said, the height requirement certainly does, the giving way to manned aircraft at all times does, the VLOS rule does,...but there is a question about the 250gr to 25KG exemption. Does it apply to MAAC fields in controlled airspace or to any MAAC member flying in G airspace. The rules are not clear and there has been no direction on that question. Seems odd that some of the safety rules apply and others don't. We have a zone MAAC meeting coming up so hopefully some of these questions will be more fully answered. Where are you vacationing in Canada?

 

[Henfri]

Will be flying in over your heads
Vancouver towards Bannf and Jasper.

 

[Henfri]

Hello Again,

no, I have the opposite understanding of what I and what you write:

.Yes...you can fly in Class G airspace (unrestricted airspace) without too many restrictions, however, if your aircraft is over 250grams, you are subject to the transport Canada rules and hence need a certification at the basic level. Being a member of MAAC and labeling your aircraft under their rules, do not supersede the transport Canada rules.

So you clearly say, that as MAAC member it does not supersede the TC rules... whereas I say, that as a MAAC member you are completely exempt from these rules.
That's something different, especially because you do NOT need a certification (for me that makes a big difference).

The main reasons for the exemption is so that flying at MAAC fields can continue...the realty of which is that most of the MAAC fields are within some type of controlled airspace.

... and the excepmtion says, that you can fly in controlled airspace only, if you take off from an MAAC field (and obey other rules).

But in uncontrolled airspace you are completely exempt from the TC rules (but there are others, that fit on one page of paper).

Greetings,
Hendrik

 

[kingsnake11]

I talked to a couple of senior MAAC reps yesterday. All I can say is good luck with your interpretation if there is an issue. I hope you enjoy Banff and Jasper...very beautiful places. Just be aware, that all flying in national and provincial parks are forbidden with special park permits and authorization....even if it is uncontrolled airspace. Being a MAAC member or a certified TC pilot will get you in trouble if you break this regulation. Just saying. Recently, a film crew for the discovery channel had their equipment confiscated and face charges. They had permits for filming in the national park, but not the provincial park....they were busted for flying in the provincial parks.

Are you flying to Vancouver and then driving to Banff and jasper?

hope you enjoy your trip. What part of germany are you from? My girlfriend is from Wuppertal.

cheers
Vic

 

[kingsnake11]

BTW, we live just outside of Vancouver.

 

[Henfri]

Hi Vic,

Ah, originally I come from "Bergisches Land" Wuppertal ist at its Border. Now I live close to Bremen.

Where do you think is my interpretation wrong?

I aware if the provincial and national park limitation.

Greetings,

Hendrik

 

[kingsnake11]

What I was told was that MAAC rules do not supercede Transport Canada regulations. As the information is conflicting, I am trying to get a definitive answer

 

[Henfri]

Correct: Maac rules cannot supercede.
But Maac members can be exempt.

That is something different.

But if you like: by allowing basic pilots to fly in controlled airspace, one could say that Maac rules are superseding if one wants to follow that argument/thinking.

But that is not the spirit of the quoted document.
It clearly says: except as long as the following rules are followed...

Thanks for trying to get a definite answer!

 

[ajkm]

Hello,

that is not how I read the excemption:
It clearly states:
"hereby exempt Model Aeronautics Association of Canada, Unit 9, 5100 South Service Road, Burlington, Ontario and their members in good standing from the requirements set out in Part IX of the Canadian Aviation Regulations (CARs) as amended from time to time, subject to the following conditions. "

So, MAAC members are excempt.

"This exemption applies to Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) and lheii members in good standing that operate remotely piloted aircraft systems weighing between 250 grams and 35 kilograms in accordance with MAAC’s safety guidelines as amended from time to time."

BUT, these rules apply:
-VLOS
-Member must have demonstrated his knowledge and experience to a person delegated by MAAC
-Mark the RPAS with Membership number

The rest is common sense rules (avoid aircraft, don't fly reckless, ...)


And then, if you want to fly in controlled airspace and only then, two additional rules apply:
-The member of MAAC operating a RPAS in Class C, D, E, F, or any other type of restricted airspace shall take-off, launch, land, or recover from a field sanctioned by MAAC [...]
-The member of MAAC operating a RPAS in Class C, D, E, F, or in any type of restricted airspace shall adhere to all the conditions that are detailed in the agreement with the controlling agency or user agency for the area;


So: If you are a tourist, you can use this as an option to avoid the SFOC

Comparison:
SFOC:
Goverment process, >30 days, Training&Test, chepest I found Canadian RPAS Basic | Foreign Pilots for $89
MAAC:
Non Profit organization, Liability Insurance included. No formal test needed. $60 for three month membership (minimum). Need to demonstrate skill to a MAAC delegate (and I can imagine that this is also possible by not doing this in person; but one can certainly also visit an MAAC field and visit nice people; certainly nicer than the TC officer I was in contact with)


Greetings,
Hendrik

As far as your MAAC understanding goes, you have to demonstrate your flying ability to the MAAC reviewer - clearly you can't "demonstrate" your abilities other than in person to the reviewer.

Secondly, you didn't include a copy of your passport picture page, even though it's on the Checklist? That alone would get you on the wrong side of TC. It's a government process so you have to be accurate in all your communications. Not including something required, like a passport page, would immediately raise a flag about how serious/professional the applicant is.

Third, the most obvious option is, as the TC employee told you, to provide a copy of an RPAS certification from your own country. In CARs IX, this is the most basic starting point for any foreign application.

Unfortunately, I would put money on the fact that your name has now been flagged in the TC database as having impersonated a Canadian and provided a government agency with misleading information. That would be considered unacceptable in any country in the world I would think, and sufficient reason alone for blocking whatever application was being processed.

So, to all foreign pilots wishing to fly in Canada, please abide by our regulations and follow the instructions given to you to the letter.

 

[Henfri]

As far as your MAAC understanding goes, you have to demonstrate your flying ability to the MAAC reviewer - clearly you can't "demonstrate" your abilities other than in person to the reviewer.

Where did you read that?

Secondly, you didn't include a copy of your passport picture page, even though it's on the Checklist?

Where did you read that? (I did send it in with my application)
Stop speculating please.

Third, the most obvious option is, as the TC employee told you, to provide a copy of an RPAS certification from your own country. In CARs IX, this is the most basic starting point for any foreign application.

Was included in my application.
Why do you suggest it was not?

provided a government agency with misleading information.

I was open, polite and honest in all communication. I provided neither wrong, nor misleading information.
I asked, whether taking the Canadian test would be sufficient. If that is missleading....

Greetings,
Hendrik

 

[eteching]

I tried my luck and had several mail discussion with the SFOC agent to get the SFOC at least limited to basic operation to fly in Canada my MAvic Air while being there in vacations for few weeks. NO chance without "certificate or proof of completion TP15263" which I can't pay because even then I am not sure if this will be there in time before the trip.

Nothing helped....

Here is the final reply of the SFOC agent......

..........
I check with my supervisor and the answer is still the same.

There is a potential that sometimes during the following year, the system will be modified and non-Canadian will we allowed to take the Basic exam but not for now
Sorry
..........

 

[ajkm]

Where did you read that?


Where did you read that? (I did send it in with my application)
Stop speculating please.


Was included in my application.
Why do you suggest it was not?


I was open, polite and honest in all communication. I provided neither wrong, nor misleading information.
I asked, whether taking the Canadian test would be sufficient. If that is missleading....

Greetings,
Hendrik

I suggest you re-read the details you have yourself provided. Secondly, as far as MAAC rules go, I suggest you read all the applicable documentation that MAAC provide.