Clarity on Rules Regarding Private Property

[Paul Uttermohlen]

I am new to piloting and I am trying to learn everything I need to know to properly fly in compliance with FAA as a hobby pilot. But I see conflicting posts and opinions regarding flying over private property. Some of it has to deal with the current date vs. when an item was posted or real rules vs. how someone feels about people flying over their private property. As I understand it, as of July 27, 2019, in the USA all other rules aside it is permissible to fly over someone else's private property. This excludes landings and takeoffs as those would require trespassing. Am I correct in this analysis? Comments please.

 

[Meta4]

As I understand it, as of July 27, 2019, in the USA all other rules aside it is permissible to fly over someone else's private property. This excludes landings and takeoffs as those would require trespassing. Am I correct in this analysis? Comments please.

The FAA doesn't have rules about private property.
Some things you have to use common sense for.
It's a good general principal to avoid flying in a way that is going to annoy landowners.

 

[theDRONEranger]

In the USA, the FAA controls all airspace, by Congressional decree. That being said, common sense must prevail! Just how comfortable would YOU feel if another drone pilot hovered outside your window or directly above your property, that is their perception, not mine! Likewise, YOU are farmer Jones, and a drone pilot flies about 50 feet over your cows and scares the crap outta them and they refuse milk for a week, thus causing you to lose revenue. Chances are, you are no longer drone friendly. The two key words in all this is “COMMON SENSE”. Never place yourself in a potential compromising position! Mutual respect of others and their right to peace of mind. Always try to inform others of your intent first, if possible! Perhaps show them the drone with a live picture, if possible, all the while explaining the free airspace and how you wish to respect their privacy. If they say no, and you choose to fly over their property any way, be ready to eat a lot of humble pie when your drone crashes and need to retrieve it!!!

 

[LenSavage]

Another issue that could trigger litigation is; if the homeowner has a 'privacy fence' around a portion of their property and has an expectation of privacy while doing whatever they choose to do in that space, then the presence of drone flying above could be seen as a violation.
Once again, if you're low and slow you look like a peeping tom but if you are just passing over high and fast, you'll probably go unnoticed.
Think like a grumpy person sunbathing and act accordingly.
Don't give them ammo to shoot you with.

 

[Goin Up]

Property and privacy rights regarding "how far up does it go" probably varies from state to state, but as a general rule, it's 100' above the tallest structure of your property - which is in FAA regulated airspace. Check your local and state regs, and as pointed out here, use common sense. And if someone asks you not to fly over their property - don't.

 

[Thomas B]

..., And if someone asks you not to fly over their property - don't.

Definitely the way to go. If in transit fly high and quickly over houses ( without people outside) when in transit.

 

[kensteele]

Another issue that could trigger litigation is; if the homeowner has a 'privacy fence' around a portion of their property and has an expectation of privacy while doing whatever they choose to do in that space, then the presence of drone flying above could be seen as a violation.
Once again, if you're low and slow you look like a peeping tom but if you are just passing over high and fast, you'll probably go unnoticed.
Think like a grumpy person sunbathing and act accordingly.
Don't give them ammo to shoot you with.

how does a privacy fence give rise to the reasonable expectation of privacy in your backyard from the air overhead?

 

[LenSavage]

how does a privacy fence give rise to the reasonable expectation of privacy in your backyard from the air overhead?

It doesn't and that's the point. From the beginning of time until recently, a good fence was enough.
If you like privacy in your own back yard and now there are people 'peeking' from the sky, then your fence is no longer effective.
Drone pilots lacking ethics and / or flight skills, may hover around low over places where they're not welcome - giving the rest of us a bad name.
I have only had one person express concern about my drone flying along their property line and I explained that their Property Association hired me to get aerial photos of the fence lines, and he said 'Okay' and he walked away.
Ironically, I believe he was one of the homeowners who had pushed his fence several feet beyond his property line into common (reserved) space.

 

[kensteele]

ok, camera in the sky is nothing new. people have been flying in helicopters for years/decades peeking over the fences and into backyards. but of course ordinary citizens weren't the target so at the time they didn't care, but now....

ethics? i don't get it.

 

[LenSavage]

ok, camera in the sky is nothing new. people have been flying in helicopters for years/decades peeking over the fences and into backyards. but of course ordinary citizens weren't the target so at the time they didn't care, but now....

ethics? i don't get it.

Ethics:
moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

synonyms:

moral code, morals, morality, moral stand, moral principles, moral values, rights and wrongs, principles, ideals, creed, credo, ethos, rules of conduct, standards (of behavior), virtues, dictates of conscience.

First, you can assume that in the mind of the public, a helicopter is an expensive tool and an sUAS is a toy that any jerk can buy - and for many, any time they see one, they assume its a peeping-tom or some other brand of bad guy. I believe that we should all endeavor to reverse that mindset or at least, fly ethically so as to not advance a negative stereotype.
If you truly 'don't get it', if ethics don't influence your behavior, then fly anywhere you feel like including low around stranger's back yards and let me know how that works out for you.
If one day, some unknown jerk without ethics is buzzing around your loved ones in your back yard, just laugh it off - he can do anything he wants.... right? mic-drop.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The FAA doesn't have rules about private property.
Some things you have to use common sense for.
It's a good general principal to avoid flying in a way that is going to annoy landowners.

It is also a good general principle to avoid flying in a way that is going to annoy any bystanders who may decide to interrupt you and your flight, and even call the police, just because they are annoyed! Anything you can do to avoid attracting attention is well advised, no matter how legal your flight.

 

[LenSavage]

Another thing that I believe makes a big difference is; I wear my vest anytime I fly.
It makes it obvious that I am working not playing. It says that my process has a purpose.
Think of me like you would a utility company employee - nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Paul Uttermohlen]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the input. I have a better idea of the expectations of fellow pilots. Clarity, however, still escapes me. "Ethics" and "Common Sense" are ill-defined. In fact I've found that common sense tends to not be common at all. And ethics like beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. The expectations of one landowner and those of another may be vastly different as are the ethics and common sense from one pilot to the next one. I've seen some crazy stuff on YouTube (some of which prompted my original post - One guy said never fly over private property). I am striving to avoid any or all conflict while pursuing what for me is just a hobby at this point. So I seek first to understand.

Thanks again. You've given me a lot to think about and consider...

 

[kensteele]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the input. I have a better idea of the expectations of fellow pilots. Clarity, however, still escapes me. "Ethics" and "Common Sense" are ill-defined. In fact I've found that common sense tends to not be common at all. And ethics like beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. The expectations of one landowner and those of another may be vastly different as are the ethics and common sense from one pilot to the next one. I've seen some crazy stuff on YouTube (some of which prompted my original post - One guy said never fly over private property). I am striving to avoid any or all conflict while pursuing what for me is just a hobby at this point. So I seek first to understand.

Thanks again. You've given me a lot to think about and consider...

kinda what i was thinking as well. i absolutely know the definition of ethics and i love ethics. but it has no place here; zero. if another drone pilot, law enforcement, or an ordinary citizen brings up ethics in their "legal dispute" then that is code from i'm right and you're wrong; they have immediately lost me and i turn from a friendly, cooperating law-abiding citizen into....

 

[Rangerider]

I've often wondered when looking up at a low flying airplane (not a drone) if they are looking at me? Do they have a camera? Are they photographing me? If I call the FAA and complain, they will ask me if the aircraft was flying at or above 500 ft. Was the aircraft within power off gliding distance in case of an engine failure? You get the picture. This is an unclear grey area in aviation. If you pass over someone's house at 400 ft they might not notice as the drone is quieter and smaller in appearance than a C-150 at 500 ft. I agree with the 'common sense' approach and respecting other's right to privacy. Even so, I don't feel bad about flying over someone else's property if at a respectable distance and not being a peeping Tom with my camera. Numerous small airplanes fly over my home often and make more noise than my drone does. Military f-16's etc fly over and vibrate my windows. Do they have their camera's on me? Only they know for sure. Google earth is photographing my property regularly. Should I be concerned? Maybe.

 

[Rangerider]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the input. I have a better idea of the expectations of fellow pilots. Clarity, however, still escapes me. "Ethics" and "Common Sense" are ill-defined. In fact I've found that common sense tends to not be common at all. And ethics like beauty is often in the eye of the beholder. The expectations of one landowner and those of another may be vastly different as are the ethics and common sense from one pilot to the next one. I've seen some crazy stuff on YouTube (some of which prompted my original post - One guy said never fly over private property). I am striving to avoid any or all conflict while pursuing what for me is just a hobby at this point. So I seek first to understand.

Thanks again. You've given me a lot to think about and consider...

You'll know how they feel if they fire a shotgun at your drone!

 

[Rangerider]

Another thing that I believe makes a big difference is; I wear my vest anytime I fly.
It makes it obvious that I am working not playing. It says that my process has a purpose.
Think of me like you would a utility company employee - nothing to see here, move along.

View attachment 78521

Is that an airport in California in the picture? I wear my MAGA hat. It also says I mean business!

 

[GadgetGuy]

You'll know how they feel if they fire a shotgun at your drone!

Indeed! Seems like the hovering is the problem, rather than a high speed flyover. Harder to hit a moving target that wasn't expected. Hover it in the air, and it's begging for target practice! No one minute spherical panoramas over gun owners!

 

[Maviac]

The FAA doesn't have rules about private property.

Hasn’t the FAA actually been pretty clear that their position is they control all airspace? I ask this realizing that you are one of the most knowledgeable folks here, but they seem to be fairly adamant in their position.

Now, civil nuisance law is another matter. But if I’m nude sunbathing in my backyard (nobody freak out, please, I don’t) and it’s out in the open, even behind a fence, there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy. A private pilot could clearly get the same shot (but he’d probably crash if he saw me, so sort of moot)

 

[Rangerider]

Hasn’t the FAA actually been pretty clear that their position is they control all airspace? I ask this realizing that you are one of the most knowledgeable folks here, but they seem to be fairly adamant in their position.

Now, civil nuisance law is another matter. But if I’m nude sunbathing in my backyard (nobody freak out, please, I don’t) and it’s out in the open, even behind a fence, there’s no reasonable expectation of privacy. A private pilot could clearly get the same shot (but he’d probably crash if he saw me, so sort of moot)

Maybe you'll get on Google Earth in the nude? I practice rude sun-bathing myself.