Was out with my MA2 filming the sunset last evening on a beach in Oregon. I was up about 200' in altitude, when out of nowwhere a single engine high wing plane and an ultralight buzzed the beach. They came up from behind a large dune, and I had almost no warning--and I did not get any DJI Airsense warning even though I have it turned on. The only thing I could think to do was drop down immediately to about 20'. They flew by so fast it was hard to say for sure what their altitude was, but I'm guessing no more that 200-300'. Any idea why Airsense wouldn't kick in--at least for the plane? I can see how an ultralight might now have that technology, but was surprised the plane didn't. I did check--it was not a restricted zone......
Close Call On The Beach
- Thread starter Nonprophet
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lannes
Well-Known Member
They might have ADS-B exemptions etc. or they were not equipped or they turned it off.
Isn't VFR a 500ft minimum altitude
Isn't VFR a 500ft minimum altitude
Last edited:
VFR is 500ft min altitude but more specifically it is 500 ft from any object, building, or person. If there are no ships around they can literally touch the water, or sand, if they are 500 ft lateral from anyone, or thing, on the beach.
Not sure of the situation in the USA but in Oz many VFR only aircraft do not have ADS-B equipment
itsneedtokno
I'm chillin, appreciate it though.
I live pretty close to the ICW, not 500 feet, but about a mile.
I have planes that fly under 400' ALL THE TIME. It's a clause that states pilots are allowed under the 500' floor if over water.
Usually ADS-B handles it, but there's been once or twice I can remember that it didn't. I turn on the light, and start lowering immediately.
I also live near multiple flight schools and near A-294, so there's always air traffic.
@Nonprophet, that's sounds intense. Glad everything is okay.
That explains the helicopters flying well below 400 ft over the Ohio River. Scares the beepers out of me. All I know to do is go to sport mode and descend post haste.
At least in the US is has nothing to do with being over water. A VFR pilot can fly over remote land as well down to the surface as long as there are no people, buildings, or objects within 500ft laterally.
Because lots of general aviation aircraft don't have ADS-B.
It is wrong to assume that all planes have ADS-B and many don't.
The FAA requires ADS-B Out capability in the continental United States, in the ADS-B rule airspace designated by FAR 91.225:
- Class A, B, and C airspace;
- Class E airspace at or above 10,000 feet msl, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 feet agl;
- Within 30 nautical miles of a Class B primary airport (the Mode C veil);
- Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B or Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet;
- Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico, at and above 3,000 feet msl, within 12 nm of the U.S. coast.
The kind of planes that don't use ADS-B are the kinds of planes that are most likely to be down at levels that might put them close to drones.
itsneedtokno
I'm chillin, appreciate it though.
"over water" is a simplification on purpose.
More often than not, the areas you will find people flying under the 500' floor are near water features.
That's why I worded it that way, thanks for the clarification though.
Here's what the rules actually say
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA
§ 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: General.
Except when necessary for takeoff or landing, no person may operate an aircraft below the following altitudes:
(a) Anywhere. An altitude allowing, if a power unit fails, an emergency landing without undue hazard to persons or property on the surface.
(b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.
(c) Over other than congested areas. An altitude of 500 feet above the surface, except over open water or sparsely populated areas. In those cases, the aircraft may not be operated closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
(d) Helicopters, powered parachutes, and weight-shift-control aircraft. If the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface—
(1) A helicopter may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section, provided each person operating the helicopter complies with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the FAA
Only about half of the fleet has installed transmitters because ADS-B is not required for most airspace.
As of Aug. 1 2020
As of Aug. 1 2020
itsneedtokno
I'm chillin, appreciate it though.
Ultralights don't have minimums. And none use ADS-B. And even aircraft with ADS-B don't have to have them on if they're not in controlled airspace.
Full ADS-B rules here: Airspace
Full ADS-B rules here: Airspace
200' would be considered a normal altitude out on the prairie where I live. wreckless Yes, stupid Yes, but still extremely common. Just as common on a beach. If it was a helicopter that hit a child's kite string which wrapped around the mast pinching the pitch change links and crashed the helicopter, it would be considered pilot error for an unsafe altitude.
However if it was a drone at the same 200' altitude instead of a kite, it would be the drones fault for failure to give the right-a-way.
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hiflyer201
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People fly low along the beach all the time. A lot of the coastal areas are restricted because of wildlife and the FAA has come down hard on that type of violation. That being said..some people like to fly lower than the last guy....drone pilots included. I guess they don't realize that the best you can do is a tie..and that's not a good result. Sadly I know of more than a few of those.
The FAA regulations say that you can't fly so low as to be a hazard to people or property ...and the insurance companies can jump on that ..cuz in effect they own the plane.
The FAA regulations say that you can't fly so low as to be a hazard to people or property ...and the insurance companies can jump on that ..cuz in effect they own the plane.
I don't think he was flying VFR because he stayed up past dusk and into darkness--VFR=no flying at night, correct?
Thank goodness that's not accurate. We can fly VFR day or night so long as weather conditions permit it.
Visual flight rules - Wikipedia
Bottom line is, had one of the aircraft hit your drone the popular consensus would have been “Drone operator causes horrific air collision”. Unfortunately with the attitude the media has, Drone operators are being blamed for a lot of instances that simply are not related to drone operations. Hope you never have to experience that again. I was flying my P4A at a huge reservoir near my hometown and a single engine aircraft flew 100ft off the water down the valley and scared the bezeesus out of me!!!! Not fun when it happens! My wife has her pilots license (doesn’t fly anymore) and she said I should have gotten the tail numbers and reported it to the FAA. But it all happened to quick for that!
hiflyer201
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VFR =Visual flight Rules legal at night. He was flying VFR in visual flight conditions..basically at least 1000 ceiling and 3 miles visibility
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