Commercial Registration?

nedcampbell · Oct 4, 2018

If I want to start a small business taking and selling pictures with my drone, am I truly required by law to register as a Commercial Operator? I am truly just a hobbyist trying to make a buck on the side to fund my drone addiction and show my wife it's a cost neutral thing buying bigger and better drones.
I am flying and taking pics in the midwest primarily over lakes, fields and woods.
Appreciate any advice.

SKentBrown · Oct 4, 2018

nedcampbell said:
If I want to start a small business taking and selling pictures with my drone, am I truly required by law to register as a Commercial Operator? I am truly just a hobbyist trying to make a buck on the side to fund my drone addiction and show my wife it's a cost neutral thing buying bigger and better drones.
I am flying and taking pics in the midwest primarily over lakes, fields and woods.
Appreciate any advice.

It depends... are you trying to justify the cost to the wife (good luck on that one) or to the IRS to deduct the costs as a business expenses?

If thinking of a deduction - suggest getting with a qualified CPA to talk specifics. IRS typically wants to see a profit eventual or they will presume you are really a hobbyest trying to deduct to the cost of your hobby.

nedcampbell · Oct 4, 2018

Not worried about the IRS and hobby v. business angle.
Not worried about the wife as long as I continue to fund vacations and girls nights out.
Just trying to figure out if FAA really has legal jurisdiction to force me to get a commercial license to fly a drone that has not people in it.

nedcampbell · Oct 4, 2018

Did you forget to take your meds today?

nedcampbell · Oct 4, 2018

Look...
Twist cap.
Open bottle.
Take pill.
Drink water.
It will calm your life.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 5, 2018

nedcampbell said:
If I want to start a small business taking and selling pictures with my drone, am I truly required by law to register as a Commercial Operator? I am truly just a hobbyist trying to make a buck on the side to fund my drone addiction and show my wife it's a cost neutral thing buying bigger and better drones.
I am flying and taking pics in the midwest primarily over lakes, fields and woods.
Appreciate any advice.

To simply answer your question, yes and you need a Part 107 certificate

nedcampbell · Oct 5, 2018

Thanks Flyboy.

cyeung · Oct 5, 2018

In order make money from your photography on the up-and-up, yes, you will need to be licensed under Part 107. See here: Becoming a Pilot

I used this class to get me ready: King Schools
After that, you will need to take an exam, at a cost of $150.

While you're studying, you can still fly recreationally and show your wife how a drone can capture things from a different perspective ... it's not all about the money! Just browse the Photos & Videos section or fly at a place that the regulations allow!

Good luck!

nedcampbell · Oct 5, 2018

cyeung said:
In order make money from your photography on the up-and-up, yes, you will need to be licensed under Part 107. See here: Becoming a Pilot

I used this class to get me ready: King Schools
After that, you will need to take an exam, at a cost of $150.

While you're studying, you can still fly recreationally and show your wife how a drone can capture things from a different perspective ... it's not all about the money! Just browse the Photos & Videos section or fly at a place that the regulations allow!

Good luck!

Thanks for the link to Kings. I’m really enjoying flying and taking photos and videos. The perspective you get from a drone is truly unique and the flying features of the DJI drones make it simple to both fly and photograph at the same time.

Anton Hardcastle · Oct 5, 2018

nedcampbell said:
Not worried about the IRS and hobby v. business angle.
Not worried about the wife as long as I continue to fund vacations and girls nights out.
Just trying to figure out if FAA really has legal jurisdiction to force me to get a commercial license to fly a drone that has not people in it.

???

beachcombing · Oct 5, 2018

nedcampbell said:
Just trying to figure out if FAA really has legal jurisdiction to force me to get a commercial license to fly a drone that has not people in it.

Yes. Yes, they do.

You need a Part 107 certificate if your intent of the flight is anything other than for your own personal enjoyment.

If your INTENT to make money, even a little tiny bit of money, then you need to be certified.

dewster · Oct 5, 2018

Get the certification from the FAA. It’ll help sell your service.

Use this video to get you started for your test:

SKentBrown · Oct 5, 2018

nedcampbell said:
Just trying to figure out if FAA really has legal jurisdiction to force me to get a commercial license to fly a drone that has not people in it.

FAA could consider as "Commercial" if you or someone derives some sort of compensation from your flying or related pictures. Say you take pictures of property and a real estate agent uses the picture to advertise the property. FAA would presume the operation to be "commercial" even if you were not paid for the picture.

Exception for educational purposes.

Some of this may have changed with the 2018 FAA Reauthorization bill signed today.

beachcombing · Oct 6, 2018

SKentBrown said:
FAA could consider as "Commercial" if you or someone derives some sort of compensation from your flying or related pictures. Say you take pictures of property and a real estate agent uses the picture to advertise the property. FAA would presume the operation to be "commercial" even if you were not paid for the picture.

Exception for educational purposes.

Some of this may have changed with the 2018 FAA Reauthorization bill signed today.

"Commercial" does not appear in the regulations. And there's no "exception" for educational purposes. (However, public universities can get a COA instead of Part 107)

Prior to October 5, the regulations allowed that flights flown for hobby/recreation (defined as for one's own personal enjoyment) would fall under Part 336. Anything else didn't.

If the intent of the flight is hobby/recreation, then it fell under Part 336. Otherwise, it didn't.

If you flew for hobby/recreation and took pictures or videos for your own enjoyment and someone subsequently approached you to purchase them for some other purpose, then you are fine.

But if your intent from the beginning is something other than your own personal enjoyment, then it falls under Part 107.

However, as you have noted, the regulations changed as of October 5, 2018 but this part of the regulation does not appear to have changed. But even the FAA does not yet know exactly want the new rules mean.

SKentBrown · Oct 6, 2018

beachcombing said:
"Commercial" does not appear in the regulations. And there's no "exception" for educational purposes. (However, public universities can get a COA instead of Part 107)

Correct the word "Commercial" is not mentioned in the regs, rather in an FAA Draft Legal Interpretation of PL 112 Section 336 see about page 11 FAA Interpretation of Special Rule for Model Aircraft (2014).

The new 2018 FAA Authorization does provide an exception for educational purposes (specified to institutions of higher learning._. HR 302 section 350.)

Mavrick II · Oct 7, 2018

The new FAA Rules and Regulations FY18 is almost law. I just saw where commercial operators are now going to need a operator section stating Privacy issues. Has anybody tackled this yet?
Also, looks like all will need to take some sort of exam to fly a drone, even recreation flyers. I for one thing it is good for the community of drone operators and will educate the abusive, operators will also be required to show proof of such training.
Anyway I had to shelve my start up due to medical issues with my knee surgery but am now getting prepared to get going, sigh my FAA Certificate expired in Sept so will have to take the test again and pay the 150 fee. Oh well, shouldn't be to hard to prep for passed first time with a pretty good score but it is a bit time consuming.

FLYBOYJ · Oct 7, 2018

Mavrick II said:
The new FAA Rules and Regulations FY18 is almost law.

It is law - POTUS signed the bill on Friday. The FAA just has to put the legislation into Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations. In some areas they have 180 days to do so.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/302/text

Turn11 · Oct 7, 2018

I don't have any dog in this hunt but I found this Youtube video, It is an opinion, not gospel. I think we are just seeing the beginning of opportunity.