covid 19,and this forum update

[Duggy]

Yep, the whole world is almost locked down now, and even Australian states are going to close their own internal borders to try and keep a lid on things, lest we can probably expect a situation like Italy and Spain have / are going through.
Nobody wants to see 10’s, perhaps 100’s of thousands die from this, small price to pay to take a step back from normality and lay low for perhaps a few weeks to maybe months.

Visitors are the main issue for us, there are so many in the country, and moving between almost all our states now requires 14 day isolation (self imposed) which I’m pretty sure won’t work with this sectors of travellers.
They’ve come from all over the world, they’ll want to keep exploring, and as seen in news services, no doubt worldwide, young people are tending to ignore the distancing requests.

Is this all a waste of time though ??
I really can’t see the World ever being the same again, covid-19 isn’t going to disappear in a month, two months, or a year.
It’s here for good I’d say, mutations and all.

Good luck everyone.

Frightening statement, sadly, I share your opinion. Can’t see any end to this anytime soon.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I'm starting to wonder about a few things . . .

1. How does each affected countrys normal death toll curve, compare / change since Dec 2019.
Is it the same ?
Does there appear to be an obvious increase ?

If same curve, and deaths are not REALLY tied specifically to CV, ie if deaths are mostly caused by normal other illness etc, then why hasn't this been picked up and reported as so ?

2. If any curve is relatively normal, what is the obvious agenda behind what GOVCOs are doing Worldwide ?
Who would drive that, World organisations, the mega rich ?

3. Why ? Control, shift of even more wealth ?

I am trying to find regular death figures for the top affected (as reported) countries, like Italy, Spain, as per this list from Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,193,765 Cases and 64,384 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer and filtered via actual attributed deaths form CV . . .

click to enlarge

That will truly reveal if this is almost normal in regards to deaths, or if CV is making a huge impact.

I look at the population part of Worldometers, and watch as births outstrip deaths, made me think . . . what if there is no real accelerated number of deaths, and what is behind GOVCO reactions worldwide ?

It's a pity the historical data here (table down the page) can't show at least monthly, and per country, guess it will be google search for monthly death rates in say the top 6 or 10 countries, and see if I can find something to graph.

World Population Clock: 8 Billion People (LIVE, 2023) - Worldometer

How many people are there in the world? World population has reached 8 billion on November 15, 2022 according to the United Nations. World population live counter with data sheets, graphs, maps, and census data regarding the current, historical, and future world population figures, estimates...

www.worldometers.info

 

[Thomas B]

Search your county’s posts and the W. H. O.
For instance here’s Arizona and U.S. data:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the U.S.

View the number of confirmed cases COVID-19 in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

“Stay Home, Stay Healthy, Stay Connected”

PHOENIX⁠ — “Stay home, Stay healthy, Stay connected” – that’s what the state is asking of fellow Arizonans in the continued effort to slow the spread of COVID-19.

azgovernor.gov

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Search your county’s posts and the W. H. O.
For instance here’s Arizona and U.S. data:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in the U.S.

View the number of confirmed cases COVID-19 in the United States.

www.cdc.gov

“Stay Home, Stay Healthy, Stay Connected”

PHOENIX⁠ — “Stay home, Stay healthy, Stay connected” – that’s what the state is asking of fellow Arizonans in the continued effort to slow the spread of COVID-19.

azgovernor.gov

I wonder if that US source is more accurate than the Worldometer one ?

COVID Live Update: 144,561,630 Cases and 3,074,780 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

Your link now shows 4th April, obviously it might still be the 4th there when we have hit 5th.
Not sure where the Worldometer site gets its info, I would hope it hasn't gone from 277205 / 6593 to 311357 / 9452 showing now overnight

The overnight new cases / deaths showing Worldometer is 34196 / 1331 is shocking, let's hope it's able to be slowed soon (can't wish for it just stop, that would be unrealistic).

 

[Matriculated01]

Alex Berenson’s (formerly of the NYT) twitter feed is a good source of actual information (data, charts, etc.) that the legacy media will not report. FYI for those who are not under the institutional narrative spell.
People like him and Peter Hitchens are taking a huge risk going against literally the entire establishment, and their bravery should be recognized. I am sure the number of voices questioning this madness we have inflicted on ourselves will continue to increase as the realities of the currently ignored economic crash begin to set in. I am just as sure that as the virus peters out the media will immediately write the correct history: the shutdown saved us! Watch how they ignore the fact that the virus behaved relatively similarly in countries that did things way differently and was worse in places where you would expect such a virus to be worse based on local conditions (population density, air quality, cultural norms regarding interpersonal touching, personal space, family structure/living arrangements, healthcare capacity, etc.). We are in the midst of a societal experiment with generational consequences and nobody has even stopped to ask the basic questions, such as “What is the concrete scientific evidence that lockdowns work?” How do we know we are not making things worse? Why haven’t the experts with the opposing point of view (of which there are many) to the consensus been allowed on TV to debate this with the “correct” opinion experts? Why did we get one point of view shoved down our throats and then told to shut up and obey?

 

[Thomas B]

I’ll stay with distance/isolation as much as I dislike it. I am not willing to be the test subject.
Isolation always works...

 

[Matriculated01]

In Texas we are starting to end this madness on Friday. I’ve always had some respect for our governor here, but it just went up significantly. Unbelievable what we (not the virus) have done to ourselves. Also never thought I’d be saying nice things about Sweden, but here we are - good going Sweden for keeping a cool and rational head.

Coronavirus shutdown skeptics challenge establishment over ‘mistake’

As the statistical models on deaths are revised downward, and the economic and social costs of the stay-at-home strategy grow more dire, contrarians are diving into the data and asking whether the lockdown pain was worth the gain — or if the COVID-19 reaction was overblown.

m.washingtontimes.com

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Also never thought I’d be saying nice things about Sweden, but here we are - good going Sweden for keeping a cool and rational head.

Sweden are certainly not doing well in the CV 'charts' . . .

COVID Live Update: 144,561,630 Cases and 3,074,780 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer

Live statistics and coronavirus news tracking the number of confirmed cases, recovered patients, tests, and death toll due to the COVID-19 coronavirus from Wuhan, China. Coronavirus counter with new cases, deaths, and number of tests per 1 Million population. Historical data and info. Daily...

www.worldometers.info

I've been watching this very closely, there are still a lot of very bad situations in many countries, one is the USA for goodness sakes.
Yes, it's mainly killing the older population and those with underlying health related issues, but they are still human beings first and foremost.
The young and middle aged are certainly in there too, and obesity is a huge problem with coping with CV.

We've almost totally got on top of this first wave of CV here in Australia, but let me say we are still going to have some very different day to day lives from here onwards.
Anyone that seriously thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.
We won't have overseas travel for quite some time, many months, that makes sense until almost the entire World has got control of this a little bit more than now.

Hey, I'd love our internal borders to open soon, so much to do interstate, and 2 weeks isolation is not a viable thing for me and interstate work, visiting family interstate, etc.

The real stats ?
Who knows for sure, what GOVCOs can hide, if there is some deep agenda or plan by someone / somewhere in all this.
But if a big section of the communities around the globe are at high risk with this, do we say that this is causing too much disruption to our lives, wealth, normality, and throw them to the wolves ?

Round 2 of CV outbreaks will happen when restrictions are lifted, mutations of the virus have already occured (is it 3 or 4 now ?) and this will keep happening like flus.
I don't know what the best balance of a normal and a CV World is, and don't think anyone else on the planet does either.

 

[dronerdave]

Today the US death # past the 2017-18 (Nov-May) flu related death rate of 61,100. Seems they are finding many of us have had the 19 virus but didn't know they had it. I just hope they find a way to handle this before the next flu season starts.

 

[Matriculated01]

Sweden is right around the middle of the pack in Europe, by the numbers. That’s the point - the tsunami apocalypse never showed, just like it didn’t anywhere else, and it only reared its head in certain places where, again, you would expect a virus with the characteristics of CV to do so. Somehow Sweden is weathering the storm just with proportional and rational measures, sans mass hysteria, mass lockdowns or economic destruction. It’s almost as if all we could ever hope for was to control the virus around the edges. And I use the word “control” loosely. Viruses that spread as easily and covertly as CV tend to do what such viruses do. We can’t even control the flu and we have a vaccine for it.

Let’s go back in time for a second and look at how the shutdown was sold to us. We were told it was necessary to flatten the curve. The idea was never to decrease the number of infected; I think even the most god-complex inflicted in our public health establishment knew and pretty much admitted that they can’t really do anything about that. The idea was to spread the infections across a longer period of time and avoid a healthcare system crushing spike. Well... mission accomplished. How much the lockdown had to do with it - nobody knows - but mission accomplished. The hospitals are empty and hospital workers are being furloughed and having their hours cut. Why are we still in lockdown? People need to start paying attention and notice the goal posts being shifted in front of their eyes. Now we have a certain highly esteemed public health official talking about criteria for re-opening being “no new CV cases, or deaths.” What? Did I miss something?

When you slap a Death-O-Meter on the TV machine at a constant refresh rate you can apparently scare people into accepting anything. But the thing is, we could do that for any single cause of death. Let’s try it for car accidents. How about heart attacks - cardiovascular disease is the number one cause of death in the US after all - I bet we could get those numbers up real nice and quick. Industrial accidents? Strokes? Cancer?

The evidence is mounting that quarantining the elderly and having rational social distancing measures for the rest without a shutdown would have produced an outcome not that much worse than where we are. The fact remains that no good argument or evidence has been presented by anyone, least of all the “experts,” for the effectiveness of mass quarantine of the healthy. Of course we quarantine the sick, and a good argument can be made for quarantining the most vulnerable even if healthy (in this case the elderly), but still waiting on the mass lockdown argument/evidence. I still wouldn’t make the quarantine of the elderly mandatory - if grandpa wants to take his life into his hands and venture out - it’s his right to make that choice. That’s the other pernicious thing about what’s been happening, the inexcusable erosion of our civil liberties and the proliferation of petty tyrants. From judges to mayors to governors to individual police officers, and most horrifyingly of all - ordinary citizens. Anybody who thought something like this couldn’t happen in the land of the free - citizens accepting arbitrary authoritarianism from politicians promising them safety - has a hard pill to swallow. The experiment has been run, and we complied. Try putting that genie back in the bottle.

While I am disappointed in my fellow citizens, I can’t say I’m surprised. And we didn’t all just sit down and take it, so there is some silver lining. Some of us still take the Bill of Rights seriously and know that it doesn’t have a “except in case of pandemic” clause.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Sweden is right around the middle of the pack in Europe, by the numbers.

You have to look deeper than the totals to understand the real impact.

Take a look at that link I posted again.
Click on some of the other factors up the top bar . . . you can sort them into those different fields, top to bottom, or vice versa.

Like Deaths per million population. As of now, Sweden has recorded 244 deaths per million and is #10 on the list Worldwide, well higher than the USA and many other countries with much higher # of cases.
They are #15 on the list of number of serious / critical cases.
They are #50 for tests per million population, so there are probably a lot more people going undetected, that will continue to spread the virus to many they encounter.

It's an insidious disease like all such viruses, but spreads at such a higher rate than any seen before, including normal flu strains.

 

[Davros007]

You have to look deeper than the totals to understand the real impact.

Take a look at that link I posted again.
Click on some of the other factors up the top bar . . . you can sort them into those different fields, top to bottom, or vice versa.

Like Deaths per million population. As of now, Sweden has recorded 244 deaths per million and is #10 on the list Worldwide, well higher than the USA and many other countries with much higher # of cases.
They are #15 on the list of number of serious / critical cases.
They are #50 for tests per million population, so there are probably a lot more people going undetected, that will continue to spread the virus to many they encounter.

It's an insidious disease like all such viruses, but spreads at such a higher rate than any seen before, including normal flu strains.

Agreed. Not only that, but the ability to compare data between countries is... not good. As you say, the data needs to be sorted in a “percentage” fashion, not just “totals”, as well as taking into account the reliability of the countries reporting in the first place! Even the accuracy of various tests is questionable; so who is testing how? Anyway, proud to report here in Western Australia, it seems currently under control. 0-1 case/day for awhile and all from cruise ships, travel etc. (None in my region for a month, not even active cases). You cannot travel between our regions even within the state, without a permit. “Everyone” is relatively pleased with the sacrifice, given the current result. But... now what? It is likely at this point we’ll stamp it out in many regions, states, even Australia. And then? That’s the next question! Good luck everyone! And stay well!

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Agreed. Not only that, but the ability to compare data between countries is... not good. As you say, the data needs to be sorted in a “percentage” fashion, not just “totals”, as well as taking into account the reliability of the countries reporting in the first place! Even the accuracy of various tests is questionable; so who is testing how? Anyway, proud to report here in Western Australia, it seems currently under control. 0-1 case/day for awhile and all from cruise ships, travel etc. (None in my region for a month, not even active cases). You cannot travel between our regions even within the state, without a permit. “Everyone” is relatively pleased with the sacrifice, given the current result. But... now what? It is likely at this point we’ll stamp it out in many regions, states, even Australia. And then? That’s the next question! Good luck everyone! And stay well!

Let's hope they keep the international border closed a good while longer, at least very strict, with the 14 day 'straight to a hotel' isolation.
Without the cruise ships and overseas return travellers / visitors, we would have had almost nil cases of course.

They say when restrictions are lifted a bit soon, we can expect another little wave of cases . . . let's hope that it's not too bad and can be handled, without going back to higher level of shutdown again.

 

[Matriculated01]

The fever may be breaking, both literally and metaphorically. When legacy media is writing fair articles, you know reality is becoming too hard to ignore.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Thomas B]

No doubt about much of the info in this thread. In my county, containing Phoenix... these are today’ numbers and those of recent past.

it’s a bad AZ county... but the numbers are bigger in California. Check them out here:

Gilbert, AZ Weather Forecast and Conditions - The Weather Channel | Weather.com

Today’s and tonight’s Gilbert, AZ weather forecast, weather conditions and Doppler radar from The Weather Channel and Weather.com

weather.com