Customer service - Banned or Neglected?

tredelijkheid · Sep 28, 2017

Hi Mavic fans,

A couple of months ago I had a "Fly-Away" situation where the drone could not be recovered anymore (landed in a lake automatically).

I had flown this flight with 3rd party App Litchi but do have the Litchi log files of the fatal moments which shows that the root cause is a hardware issue (barometer failure).

The lake is situated on my last holiday destination, about 1.800km from home. I have hired divers but they are unable to find it (the Mavic has been lying there since the 10th of August.

DJI kept on sending me two statements:

1. We do not have the resources to check your 3rd party log files

2. The issue is caused by the 3rd party app and this voids the warranty/care refresh

If they would just have a look at the logfiles (which are just one click away: Airdata UAV - Flight Data Analysis for Drones) they would see that there was something very wrong with my Mavic. Like a 15 m/s descent rate. So it is not App related.

Of course I know that they want to have my aircraft for the Care-Refresh option but after such a long time under water they probably could not do anything with it. I was hoping that they would be somewhat flexible and I have been reading posts where similar cases were resolved by customer friendliness and understanding the situation. Not in the least because of the very, very long time they took to have a look at my situation. I have had replies from DJI support that makes you wonder how they think of customer service.

I have been asking polite and friendly but because of the lack of answer I got (every time the above two reasons) I am now becoming quite frustrated. Especially because they now even do not reply any more.

Has anyone had the same experience? What are my best options? Thinking of going to court, visit their repair facility which is very close to my home, tell the truth on my Youtube channel or anything else?

I really do not know what to do anymore.

Thanks for your advice,

Theo.

Adamcain112 · Sep 28, 2017

One of the reasons I didnt buy the refresh, I know I was going to use non dji products. And knowing any alterations would void the warranty. You are out of luck sorry to hear this. The warranty is pretty clear.

Youser · Sep 28, 2017

I don't think it matters what condition the drone is in for Care Refresh.

Looks like they got you though, they'll just keep saying you used a 3rd party app and they cannot do anything about the logs the app produces.

If you had the drone and Care Refresh, you'd probably get a replacement, no questions asked.

microlinux · Sep 28, 2017

It's not that the act of using Litchi voids the warranty, it's that DJI will only (understandably) work from their own logs. The problem here is you don't have the aircraft either. This is the risk of using Litichi, if you have a problem and can't recover the aircraft, you're out of luck.

Maineiac · Sep 28, 2017

Refresh requires you to return the drone regardless of what caused the failure so you're out of luck there and then the use of the 3rd party app voids a normal warranty claim.

In this case you'd have needed State Farm or some other outside insurance protection.

Kilrah · Sep 28, 2017

Can you post your actual log file? Airdata does not give anywhere near enough detail to paint a picture.

microlinux · Sep 28, 2017

Maineiac said:
then the use of the 3rd party app voids a normal warranty claim.

There is nothing in the warranty policy that states a 3rd party app voids a claim. The problem with 3rd party apps is ancillary - DJI will only work from the logs in Go or on the aircraft itself.

msinger · Sep 28, 2017

tredelijkheid said:
do have the Litchi log files of the fatal moments which shows that the root cause is a hardware issue (barometer failure).

After you post your log, please tell us where you see this in the log.

tredelijkheid · Sep 28, 2017

The DJI policy is very clear:

Failure of, or damage caused by, any third party products, including those that DJI may provide or integrate into the DJI product at your request.

There might be differences between the DJI-GO and Litchi Log files.But UAV Airdata supports the two (and even more) logfiles.
It also includes the local surface weather and other data. DJI should have tackled this in the SDK which they promote quite thoroughly.

But can we please stay on topic? Does anyone has the same experience where DJI suddenly stops communicating?
To my opinion this is very rude. Imagine discussing a problem with someone and that other person just walks away.

I could state some answers that I have gotten from DJI but I am afraid that I will be deleted from this forum...
You will be shocked when you read them..

Theo.

msinger · Sep 28, 2017

Here's your uploaded flight log:
DJI Flight Log Viewer - PhantomHelp.com

Where do you see the barometer failure?

Adamcain112 · Sep 28, 2017

I could see any company stop communicating if they came to a conclusion already even if the end user isn't satisfied. Not the best way to deal with customers for future sales, but they are such a big company and have hundreds of warranty claims and loosing a customer here and there is the last thing on there mind.

tredelijkheid · Sep 28, 2017

Adamcain112 said:
I could see any company stop communicating if they came to a conclusion already even if the end user isn't satisfied. Not the best way to deal with customers for future sales, but they are such a big company and have hundreds of warranty claims and loosing a customer here and there is the last thing on there mind.

"Apparently, in C you just lost the downlink for 2 1/2 seconds, but not the connection between the RC and the AC.
From C (3:35) to D (5:56), your drone remains in Waypoint mode. This means that it continues to fly autonomously according to the programmed mission. With Litchi, once the mission is uploaded and started, there is no need of the app or even of the RC. You can shut off your device and your RC, the drone will fly to the last waypoint by itself at the speed and with the gimbal tilt that were programmed at the moment of disconnection.

Thus if this last waypoint is programmed close to the place you are and the programmed speed is fast enough, you have just to wait quietly for your bird.
But since you were still in waypoint mode during these 2 minutes 20 seconds between C and D, I am surprised that the speed remained at very low values (varying randomly between 0.2 and 4mph but mostly around 1mph) as it was before the downlink loss in C.

To me, this is reminiscent of a drift (with some accelerations under gusts) when the drone is hovering for a long period with some wind. The programmed speed was quite above zero.
What is even more strange is the slow but regular ascension from 204 feet to 1,168 feet during these 2' 20s.

Together with the abnormally low altitude value (-336 feet) at the moment the drone lands in the lake under P-GPS and 19 satellites (!), this raises the possibility of a barometer and/or sensor failure allowing a great discrepancy with the GPS data (a ~100m error is huge with 19 satellites).

This is the non-disputable point that I would put forward to contest the decision of DJI because this error cannot be explained by any pilot error or erroneous command of Litchi app."

tredelijkheid · Sep 28, 2017

"There is obviously something wrong with the Mavic. At 7:10, altitude is 1187", at 7:10.2 it is -28". Even free fall is not as fast. Looks like a barometer failure, exactly what happened to me with my first Mavic during its third flight."

tredelijkheid · Sep 28, 2017

"Just looked at the parameters on airdata and only one thing stands out to me. Under the notifications tab reference line H (mode changed to confirm landing) at 391 meters. After looking at various flights i've done that message doesn't appear until the mavic has stopped short of the ground and cleared itself to land. The aircraft was descending at 15 M/s which is far from terminal velocity but it was a healthy descent. When I was traveling I was able to conduct some flights where I was able to max the aircraft out because I like knowing the limitations and capability of things I fly. A similar flight profile had mine descending at half the rate yours was in similar conditions and winds aloft. Quite honestly I think something malfunctioned causing the mavic to enter its final landing stage before it should have. Oh and it's probably exactly where it shows on the map, might want to get some goggles and go for a dip.

Phlier · Sep 28, 2017

A State Farm drone insurance policy is far better than DJI Refresh, and cheaper as well. Guys are getting them for 65 bucks per year. Do a search for posts on it. Think you'll like what you find.

Mavic_Pete · Sep 28, 2017

Do you expect them to communicate with you forever? They already gave you an answer which you just don't want to accept. As far as DJI is concerned your issues is resolved on their end so no further conversation is needed. As others have said its not DJIs problem that you decided to use Litchi even thought it probably was not Litchi that caused the behavior.. Risk you take using a 3rd party app. For your next mavic look into state farm. I have my mavic insured for $60 a year with $0 deductible. If anything happens to it they will mail me a check to replace it... and I mean ANYTHING! All you need is a proof of purchase so they know the dollar amount. Don't even need to recover the drone. Got a chuckle that you hired divers lol how much did that run? Sorry for your loss..

danman999 · Sep 28, 2017

If DJI replaced every lost drone that had DJI Care, they would be out of business. They need the drone, and I understand why. Not to say you may not have a valid issue, but you also have to look at it from a business point of view.

tredelijkheid · Sep 30, 2017

I am giving up. Have no choice. Thanks everyone for your advise. As a reference for this topic and to warn other people I will include my final message to DJI:

"Dear DJI,

Apologies for the broad distribution of this mail but I hope that your customers are important to you.

INTRODUCTION

During my vacation of August in Slovenia I made a couple of flights with my Mavic Pro. During one of my last flights I received a “DISCONNECT” message after just a few minutes of flight and I was unable to control the aircraft. The control App is was using on my iPhone 7/+ was a 3rd party app called “Litchi”, not the default DJI App. If have made many flights with Litchi and never had any problems.

After the disconnect warning the aircraft ascended erratically to more than 300 meters which prevented me to see or hear it anymore. After the climb the aircraft descended out of control at a speed of 15(!) meter per second and landed in a small lake. The standard Mavic descent speed is 5 meter per second. Because I have been running back to the RTH point I did not actually see it land but because It dropped right out the sky it must have landed on the location shown in the log files.

My holiday location (Therme Catez) is about 1500m from my home. I tried to retrieve the Mavic by dredging for a full day but also got in touch with the DJI community in Slovenia. They would try to find scuba divers who could help us.

2. LATEST UPDATE

Today, 24 September you wrote: “Thanks, unfortunately we can't analyze 3rd party APP since we do not have the resources to analyze data as such we cannot provide further assistance with this issue. “

Earlier on 18 Aug you wrote: – “We apologize for the experience you have had with your product. DJI of Netherlands would like to assist you on determining the cause of the aircraft to erratically fly away. Please allow our Data Analyst Team to review your flight records which you have synced together with your email address. A Special Team will contact you via email as soon as the results have been readily available to discuss the details of the incident and the possible option.”
No DJI Netherlands and no “Special Team” did contact me.

3. 3. DJI’s INTERNAL CRISIS

On 28-Aug you wrote: – “Thanks for writing us back. Upon checking your case its still on going. We sincerely apologize to you for the delay of your case, to tell you honestly, We are flooded with a large number of unexpected cases this month and all this has led to this delay, this inconvenience has been caused to you.”. We are trying our best to minimize the delay as much as possible to reduce your trouble, We have equipped our departments with more number of staffs as soon as possible. To ensure that this crisis does not take place in the future again, we have taken all precautionary steps. Once again we apologize to you for all the troubles caused because of us. We would appreciate your support on this matter.”

This indeed sounds like a resource issue (or in your own words a “crisis”). Although I can imagine that you have sold so many Mavic’s that you now have a resource issue. But that is NOT my problem. If I were you I would hire additional support employees because I have had 6(!) different of your DJI support colleagues looking at my case. And apparently you are experiencing “flooding of unexpected cases.”. Sounds pretty serious.

4. 4. CARE-REFRESH IN PLACE - EXPEDITE SUPPORT

I purchased the Care Refresh because of the “Rapid support” and “VIP Phone Service”, as you advertised. At the end it took you a month to figure out that the log files are not at the DJI-GO location on my iPhone but on another location used by the 3rd party App. You did not even had a look at the logfiles I had send way earlier. The Flyaway occurred on the 10th of August. It is now the 24th of August and we have made no progress whatsoever.

5. RETRIEVAL OF MAVIC?

On the 21th of August I have asked your opinion to hire scuba divers to try and retrieve the drone. That costs me 200 EUR per attempt but if that would be my only option I would have tried it. Your answer was “With your concern, It's up to you if you want it to find by the divers. But we suggest you just to live it with the data analysis if what was the caused of an issue.”.
In other words: postpone the scuba diving option until the data is analyzed.

Summarized there are two reasons why you refuse to help me:

A. DJI RESOURCE ISSUE

“We regret to inform you due to the fact that you were using a non DJI app that we are unable to confirm your flight records as we do not have the resources to analyze data from other app”.

Again, I suggest that you free up some resources to at least have a look at the log files. They are just one click away on the Airdata UAV site. Airdata UAV now has over 2,000,000 flights that have been uploaded as more and more pilots look to Airdata UAV for their flight analytics. Data is automatically uploaded and Airdata UAV supports your DJI-GO App. It even shows more data like the ground weather. The issue I have encountered is visible immediately and will cost less than 10 minutes to analyze. Surely you can free up someone who will help a customer who is waiting over a month because of your internal “crisis” and has “Care-Refresh” in place.

B. CAUSE OF ISSUE

You state: “Failure of, or damage caused by, any third party products, including those that DJI may provide or integrate into the DJI product at your request.”. Again, please take a look at the log files. They will show you that the problems are caused by a barometric hardware issue. At least 4 experts on the Mavic (even on you DJI forum) acknowledge this. So the issue is NOT software/app related. Either your DJI-GO app or the 3rd party did not cause the issue. I have used (and can prove) the 3rd party app until the 6th of august without any issues at all. If you still believe the 3rd party App is the cause – please send me evidence of this so I can held the developers responsible. Not in the least on how you promote the SDK: “Using the SDK, create a customized mobile app to unlock the full potential of your DJI aerial platform.”. The 3rd party App is used by thousands of pilots and has a steep price tag.

C. CURRENT SITUATION

Because of your internal “crisis” it took you over a month to find anything regarding the cause of the FlyAway. The Drone might have drifted in the lake and chances to retrieve it are getting smaller and smaller. And after such a long period in the water chances that you will get any information from the aircraft are very small.

tredelijkheid · Oct 2, 2017

To finalize matters - this is the same flight only two days before the accident..
This one is almost perfect and I should not have taken any more flights.

Hope you like it. Finally I am going to remove all 3rd party add-ons.
I already started to make a movie from the dreadful DJI experience - keep watching my channel!

Again all the best and thanks for your support, confirming my ideas and share your expertise.

Theo.

genesimmons · Jan 27, 2018

please forgive my ignorance as i am a very new piolot, what does litchi do that the dji app does not? does it infact jailbreak the mavic and it can fly higher than 400ft? i am curious as to why this app is appealing and in this case cost u the drone if its worth it to use this app?