Death Valley

[sar104]

"Land of the free."

When I was renewing my drivers license yesterday, I found out about the "Real ID" legislation. It seems that, if I want to fly commercial, within the United States, after Oct. 1, 2020, I have to have a "real ID" drivers license. In order to get one of those, I have to present documents equivalent to a certified copy of my birth certificate, my social security card and my old drivers license. Then my drivers license will have a feature that makes it more difficult to counterfeit.

Even though I have a passport, I decided to comply, since there was no added fee involved.

My mother-in-law was less fortunate. She has a birth certificate that has sufficed up to this point in her 83 year span as a Michigan born US Citizen. In order to get a "Real ID," she will have to apply for a new "certified birth certificate" and pay Michigan $34.

We lost our freedom when the "Patriot Act" was passed (talk about a misnomer).

Regarding drones, one of the restrictions that doesn't make a lot of sense is the 5 mile radius of any airport. The restriction is entirely generic. There is inadequate distinction between Ohare airport and a small town airport that gets perhaps two or three planes a day. Additionally, there is no distinction, when it comes to drones.

My drone weights 2 lbs and is made of plastic. Any airplane that can be brought down by colliding with a two pound plastic drone doesn't need to be airborne.

End of rant.

I was pretty much with you until your last paragraph. Assuming that you are flying a Mavic, then (a) your drone is not just made of plastic and (b) what on earth is the basis for that assertion regarding aircraft? They have never been designed to resist impacts of that kind, because it's never been a threat. Are you seriously suggesting that all GA aircraft should now be grounded just because a few people want to fly drones and can't be bothered to follow aviation safety rules?

 

[MotorPsycho]

I'm curio

I was pretty much with you until your last paragraph. Assuming that you are flying a Mavic, then (a) your drone is not just made of plastic and (b) what on earth is the basis for that assertion regarding aircraft? They have never been designed to resist impacts of that kind, because it's never been a threat. Are you seriously suggesting that all GA aircraft should now be grounded just because a few people want to fly drones and can't be bothered to follow aviation safety rules?

I'm curious what airplane you believe could be brought down by a Mavic 2? I certainly don't want to go up in that plane.

Don't put words in my mouth. My point was that responsibly flying a tiny drone, at low altitudes, four miles from a rarely used airport does not represent a meaningful aviation hazard. Even small towns have tiny airports. It is a rare town that doesn't have a five mile radius no-fly zone circle because of current regulations.

But, more than that, it was, as I said, a rant. I could go on about our "freedom" all day. The NPS not allowing drones in "Death Valley" is another case in point.

 

[FoxhallGH]

I didn't break the law I never took off or land in a national park, I stopped before entering took off flew over it took a couple of pictures and then landed outside the park again. Nowhere does it say you can't do that.

The 'F' in NFZ is for FLY ... It's a 'No Fly Zone' - not a no take-off & landing zone ...

 

[sar104]

I'm curio


I'm curious what airplane you believe could be brought down by a Mavic 2? I certainly don't want to go up in that plane.

Don't put words in my mouth. My point was that responsibly flying a tiny drone, at low altitudes, four miles from a rarely used airport does not represent a meaningful aviation hazard. Even small towns have tiny airports. It is a rare town that doesn't have a five mile radius no-fly zone circle because of current regulations.

But, more than that, it was, as I said, a rant. I could go on about our "freedom" all day. The NPS not allowing drones in "Death Valley" is another case in point.

I think it's pretty well accepted that a Mavic-sized drone would, for example, go straight through the windshield of many GA aircraft, fixed-wing and helicopters and could completely disable the pilot. Recent testing also showed that a Phantom easily penetrates a GA wing, and could therefore breach the fuel tank. Something this size would also likely destroy many helicopter tail rotors. There's been inadequate testing so far on commercial jets - hopefully those would be damaged but not disabled. But you probably should stay out of all GA aircraft if that is your concern.

 

[sar104]

The 'F' in NFZ is for FLY ... It's a 'No Fly Zone' - not a no take-off & landing zone ...

National Parks are not designated anywhere that I'm aware as NFZs. Certainly not by the FAA or NPS.

 

[DanMan32]

I thought the same. Then found its an NPS rule, not an FAA rule. FAA simply reiterates NPS rule as a PSA.

 

[DanMan32]

I think it's pretty well accepted that a Mavic-sized drone would, for example, go straight through the windshield of many GA aircraft, fixed-wing and helicopters and could completely disable the pilot. Recent testing also showed that a Phantom easily penetrates a GA wing, and could therefore breach the fuel tank. Something this size would also likely destroy many helicopter tail rotors. There's been inadequate testing so far on commercial jets - hopefully those would be damaged but not disabled. But you probably should stay out of all GA aircraft if that is your concern.

Not sure I'd say "well accepted". DJI has published a rebuttal that has merit on that latest test.

 

[sar104]

Not sure I'd say "well accepted". DJI has published a rebuttal that has merit on that latest test.

I don't see any technical merit at all in their rebuttal. And even if you explore their argument, I find it very hard to imagine that anyone at DJI actually thinks that the test outcome would have been significantly different had the impact velocity been 200 mph.

 

[sar104]

I thought the same. Then found its an NPS rule, not an FAA rule. FAA simply reiterates NPS rule as a PSA.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The NPS explicitly acknowledges that it has no jurisdiction over the airspace.

 

[SteveCA]

National Parks are not NFZ’s period. That ended some years ago when President Bush signed off on lifting a long standing NFZ that had been in place for decades

 

[sar104]

National Parks are not NFZ’s period. That ended some years ago when President Bush signed off on lifting a long standing NFZ that had been in place for decades

Are you saying that they used to be restricted airspace?

 

[SteveCA]

Are you saying that they used to be restricted airspace?

My memory may be fading but I recall a time when commercial aircraft could not fly over Yosemite National Park, which was changed in the early 2000’s as a result of a major policy change that the big airlines lobbied successfully for. I can’t find the source of the information anymore so it could be my poor memory.

In any event, your assertion about the lack of a NFZ today is 100% correct. There is no such thing in National Parks’ just a restriction prohibiting the Launching, operating and landing of unmanned aircraft from or on NPS property.

 

[ChallengerPilot]

Let me jump in. Two pounds of Mavic 2 going into the N1 fan of a jet engine can do a lot of damage...potentially destroy the engine when the thing starts vibrating. Maybe cause a fire? Then there is the airplane at 275 MPH hitting a 2 pound solid object right in the windscreen. Or smashes in the tail of a smaller aircraft. Or hit a helicopter....

I would be more than happy to take you along on a flight, have someone guide a mavic 2 into your side of the airplane and see how it goes. You down for that? Let me know and we can make it happen.

Professional Pilot....

I'm curio


I'm curious what airplane you believe could be brought down by a Mavic 2? I certainly don't want to go up in that plane.

Don't put words in my mouth. My point was that responsibly flying a tiny drone, at low altitudes, four miles from a rarely used airport does not represent a meaningful aviation hazard. Even small towns have tiny airports. It is a rare town that doesn't have a five mile radius no-fly zone circle because of current regulations.

But, more than that, it was, as I said, a rant. I could go on about our "freedom" all day. The NPS not allowing drones in "Death Valley" is another case in point.

 

[ChallengerPilot]

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Not sure I'd say "well accepted". DJI has published a rebuttal that has merit on that latest test.

 

[MotorPsycho]

Let me jump in. Two pounds of Mavic 2 going into the N1 fan of a jet engine can do a lot of damage...potentially destroy the engine when the thing starts vibrating. Maybe cause a fire? Then there is the airplane at 275 MPH hitting a 2 pound solid object right in the windscreen. Or smashes in the tail of a smaller aircraft. Or hit a helicopter....

I would be more than happy to take you along on a flight, have someone guide a mavic 2 into your side of the airplane and see how it goes. You down for that? Let me know and we can make it happen.

Professional Pilot....

I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a jet traveling at 275 mph less than 120 meters from the ground anywhere but a major airport, if it even happens there.

Try to save your ire for a real life example.

It’s like I said J walking was reasonably safe when there is light to no traffic in a small rural town and you respond that J walking is terrible because you will be killed and perhaps cause an accident if you do it across a 10 lane highway in major traffic.

Also, I can hear airplanes coming for miles, especially jets traveling at 275 mph 50 meters off the ground. I have plenty time to land a drone.

Finally, I never once said I fly in restricted airspace.

Meaningless, angry post.

 

[ChallengerPilot]

You’re right. No use arguing with you since you have it figured out. Rules are silly....

 

[MotorPsycho]

You’re right. No use arguing with you since you have it figured out. Rules are silly....

I'm just glad you didn't fantasize my poor Mavic 2 Pro above Cape Canaveral in the flight path of a Falcon Heavy. What did my poor drone ever do to you?