Disconnected in flight - Mavic 2 Pro gone

[Mossiback]

...Conditions this morning were almost zero wind, although much warmer than normal due to the heatwave...

How hot was it? Batteries have been known to swell when overheating to the point of disconnection.

The discount offer is the standard response when no evidence of manufacturing defect is shown. Since the sudden power loss could be explained by an improperly seated battery, DJI is unlikely to offer a free replacement.

 

[paulatkin73]

I will start a claim that the goods were not of merchantable quality.

A claim with whom exactly? Dji?

 

[worldtraveller]

To answer the last two posts.....it was hotter than normal but as it was early morning, not hot, so it should not have caused any problems to the batteries (I believe that the flight records confirmed this).

I paid for the drone with a VISA card, and if DJI do not offer a replacement drone, then I will dispute the charge on the grounds that the goods were not of merchantable quality. A drone costing almost 1400 euros should not suffer from problems after less than 6 weeks with normal use (and no crashes/no heavy landings). The flight records do not indicate that I did anything wrong, and given that there was a sudden disconnection, then the finger points at a failure of the drone itself. In addition, the drone did not return-to-home, which would indicate another failure.

I will wait until next week in order to give DJI a chance to offer a replacement drone, then if they have not offered me another drone, will dispute the charge on the credit card.

 

[paulatkin73]

Euros - so, it makes sense, as in states it is not really doable to make a claim afterwards, so i was curious if there was a new way or something to dispute this pist-factum

 

[worldtraveller]

Always in these type of cases, it comes down to reasonable use and whether or not the goods were of merchantable quality. I suspect that a judge would decide that an electrical item costing around 1400 euros should last more than 6 weeks, as that is such a short period of time. As there is no evidence that the user (myself) did anything wrong or contributed to the in-flight failure, then it appears that the drone had some kind of fault (especially as it did not return to home as it was supposed to do). For a fault to occur so soon after purchase implies that the drone (=the goods) was not of merchantable quality.

I also must check to see if my particular VISA card includes purchase protection, as I have an idea that purchase protection is included with some cards, luckily I paid for the drone with a credit card (as opposed to a debit card). So I may also be able to claim there.

But I am hoping that DJI offer a replacement drone. If they refuse and will only offer me a 30% discount of another drone (which might also fall out of the sky after less than 6 weeks) then it will be the end of my association with DJI. The fact that the .DAT files from the Mavic 2 Pro were not stored on my mobile phone also makes matters more difficult....for some reason on the .DAT files from the Mavic Pro (1) were stored.

There are a few products with quality control issues, but a good company would want to replace them, rather than have dissatisfied customers.

Bottom line is that I am not going to buy another Mavic 2 Pro if DJI insist on only giving the 30% discount. I know that I am not the only one to have experienced a disconnection.

I may disconnect myself from DJI, depending on their response.

 

[sar104]

Always in these type of cases, it comes down to reasonable use and whether or not the goods were of merchantable quality. I suspect that a judge would decide that an electrical item costing around 1400 euros should last more than 6 weeks, as that is such a short period of time. As there is no evidence that the user (myself) did anything wrong or contributed to the in-flight failure, then it appears that the drone had some kind of fault (especially as it did not return to home as it was supposed to do). For a fault to occur so soon after purchase implies that the drone (=the goods) was not of merchantable quality.

I also must check to see if my particular VISA card includes purchase protection, as I have an idea that purchase protection is included with some cards, luckily I paid for the drone with a credit card (as opposed to a debit card). So I may also be able to claim there.

But I am hoping that DJI offer a replacement drone. If they refuse and will only offer me a 30% discount of another drone (which might also fall out of the sky after less than 6 weeks) then it will be the end of my association with DJI. The fact that the .DAT files from the Mavic 2 Pro were not stored on my mobile phone also makes matters more difficult....for some reason on the .DAT files from the Mavic Pro (1) were stored.

There are a few products with quality control issues, but a good company would want to replace them, rather than have dissatisfied customers.

Bottom line is that I am not going to buy another Mavic 2 Pro if DJI insist on only giving the 30% discount. I know that I am not the only one to have experienced a disconnection.

I may disconnect myself from DJI, depending on their response.

The problem with the argument is that there have been other similar cases where the fault was an incorrectly installed battery. Those are distinguishable in the aircraft DAT file, but not the mobile device DAT file, and so without the aircraft there is nothing definitive to determine whether it was user error or hardware/firmware failure. In your case the circumstances suggest to me that it was not a battery disconnect, but again that's not definitive.

 

[Simmo]

You need to see it from DJI's perspective too.
What if you just shut down the app, (ending the data recording) and then landed the AC and have it in good condition in your lounge room??
Thats what the data shows. Who's to know any differant?? With out giving the Drone to DJI, thats their offer under the circumstances.

 

[worldtraveller]

I would argue that DJI may also have made the matter worse by the fact that my Android-based mobile phone no longer stores .DAT files, as it did previously with the Mavic Pro (1). Had there been .DAT files stored right up to the very last moment then finding out what failed would have been easier.

I am not sure, but would the flight data records that are in the mobile phone show that I did NOT shut the app down?? Also, as there have been other reports of disconnections then again that would indicate that there is a problem in SOME Mavic 2 Pro units. This was not an isolated event, which again indicates that there MAY be a problem with SOME Mavic 2 Pro units. And it was less than 6 weeks old.

And looking at the matter from the DJI point-of-view, an experienced (several years) drone pilot who apparently did nothing wrong appears to be innocent. Customer service and customer loyalty may be worth protecting and preserving.

And looking at it from the consumer's point-of-view, who would spend ANOTHER 1000+ euros on something that might also fall from the sky for no apparent reason ???

But for now I am waiting on the reply from DJI, so I will wait until after the weekend and see what if anything is their reply.

 

[sar104]

I would argue that DJI may also have made the matter worse by the fact that my Android-based mobile phone no longer stores .DAT files, as it did previously with the Mavic Pro (1). Had there been .DAT files stored right up to the very last moment then finding out what failed would have been easier.

I am not sure, but would the flight data records that are in the mobile phone show that I did NOT shut the app down?? Also, as there have been other reports of disconnections then again that would indicate that there is a problem in SOME Mavic 2 Pro units. This was not an isolated event, which again indicates that there MAY be a problem with SOME Mavic 2 Pro units. And it was less than 6 weeks old.

And looking at the matter from the DJI point-of-view, an experienced (several years) drone pilot who apparently did nothing wrong appears to be innocent. Customer service and customer loyalty may be worth protecting and preserving.

And looking at it from the consumer's point-of-view, who would spend ANOTHER 1000+ euros on something that might also fall from the sky for no apparent reason ???

But for now I am waiting on the reply from DJI, so I will wait until after the weekend and see what if anything is their reply.

The DAT file problem was not caused by DJI - the GO 4 app stores DAT files on Android and iOS devices. The lack of DAT files in this case indicates a problem with the device. As I mentioned previously, there have been sudden loss incidents with all the DJI aircraft types; some have been caused by failures and some by incorrectly seated batteries. All are extremely uncommon "isolated events" compared to the number of these aircraft sold. Sometimes the cause can be identified from the mobile device logs, but sometimes it cannot. Without the DAT file there is very little chance of determining the cause. And when the cause cannot be identified, DJI's default offer is 25% discount.

You might choose to buy another one on the basis that these problems are very uncommon and, if it were not a battery installation problem, then you were simply unlucky this time. But there are inherent risks in flying this kind of equipment, and if you are not willing to run those risks then it's probably not for you.

 

[worldtraveller]

Thanks for the reply again, always good to have my thoughts reviewed.

The problem is uncommon but the thought of spending another large sum of money on something that may again have a connection problem is too much....already a lot of money spent on a product that, in this case, appears to have some kind of failure.

Many years of drone flying, and I can think of one occasion this year where I flew the Mavic Pro (1) knowing that I had a good chance to lose it - the winds were over 50 km/h at the time but the though of videos of the surf was enticing. The risk is ok if I can choose, but in the recent case, I did not have the chance to decide.....disconnection and then no more drone.

And when we are talking about 1400 euros + perhaps another 1000 euros, the sums start to get big. I do not pay that sort of money for something that has a problem so soon after purchase. I am sure that some other companies would be offering a replacement item, given the circumstances.

But time will tell, weekend now so I guess it will be sometime next week before DJI reply.

 

[worldtraveller]

UPDATE on 23 July

DJI have emailed me again and are still refusing to offer more than a 50% discount off a new Mavic 2. I still say that the drone was faulty (as witnessed by its failure to return-to-home following the disconnect -itself an indication of a fault).

So I have now started the next stage, and have asked the retailer (a good, reputable retailer) for a full refund. Unfortunately the retailer is the one who will lose in this matter, as my contract was with them (even though they did nothing wrong).

But given the extremely bad 'support' from DJI then that was the end of my association with DJI. I will look for another make of drone, but no more DJI products for me. Having experienced their 'support' it has turned me off their products for life. Once they have your money then they are no longer interested in you.

So I am disconnecting myself from DJI. Far too many problems and issues with DJI, from the software and constant updates to geo-fencing and now hardware problems. Life is too short to have hassles like the ones that I have had with DJI .

So I will wait for a refund from the dealer, or failing that, dispute the credit card charge. Not happy with DJI, as you can imagine.
?????

 

[Simmo]

Good luck!
If I could add though, DJI is the worlds best selling Drone seller. You may have got a dud.. unlucky considering the number of units they sell...
Now you are looking for a differant manufacturer, who's tech experiance is argueably a whole host less than DJI (or they would be top seller no?)
So your chances of another 'dud' have increased exponentially, based on market share???
I'd take their offer, and hope that you dont get another alleged Dji dud??

 

[worldtraveller]

I will not buy another one, even with the 50% discount. A company that sells a dud (and by the law of averages, that can be expected) then refuses to replace it does not deserve further trade. DJI have a few lessons to learn in Customer service. I am tired of the hassle with DJI and the many emails to their customer 'support' section recently have convinced me. As some other people have experienced the same issue then a good company would be interested in resolving those problems, as often the consumer is innocent. It might cost a company money in the short term, but long term it pays off.

But in this case, DJI refuses to stand by one of its products that was faulty. The drone disconnected and failed to reconnect. The drone failed to return to home. Operator error? Unlikely. Equipment error? Very likely.

What sort of company sells a product then when a percentage of those products has a problem, refuses to accept responsibility?

I just feel sorry for the (reputable) retailer who is in the middle of this, as they did nothing wrong and will also suffer because of DJI.

 

[sar104]

UPDATE on 23 July

DJI have emailed me again and are still refusing to offer more than a 50% discount off a new Mavic 2. I still say that the drone was faulty (as witnessed by its failure to return-to-home following the disconnect -itself an indication of a fault).

So I have now started the next stage, and have asked the retailer (a good, reputable retailer) for a full refund. Unfortunately the retailer is the one who will lose in this matter, as my contract was with them (even though they did nothing wrong).

But given the extremely bad 'support' from DJI then that was the end of my association with DJI. I will look for another make of drone, but no more DJI products for me. Having experienced their 'support' it has turned me off their products for life. Once they have your money then they are no longer interested in you.

So I am disconnecting myself from DJI. Far too many problems and issues with DJI, from the software and constant updates to geo-fencing and now hardware problems. Life is too short to have hassles like the ones that I have had with DJI .

So I will wait for a refund from the dealer, or failing that, dispute the credit card charge. Not happy with DJI, as you can imagine.
?????

The problem remains that you can only, at best, infer circumstantially that it was an aircraft fault. It almost certainly disconnected and failed to return either because it lost power due to a battery disconnect or because an FC process crashed. DJI regard the battery disconnect as likely user error, and only ever offer a discount without the aircraft to examine. 50% is more than their usual offer of 30%. So while your disappointment is understandable, so is their policy.

 

[Meta4]

But in this case, DJI refuses to stand by one of its products that was faulty.
Operator error? Unlikely. Equipment error? Very likely.

What sort of company sells a product then when a percentage of those products has a problem, refuses to accept responsibility?

The gaping hole in your logic is that you have no proof it was a DJI issue that caused the problem.
It might have been, but it might not have been.
DJI offered to meet you halfway without any evidence of the cause of the incident and you accuse them of not standing behind their product?
What kind of customer insists that a problem must be the manufacturer's fault when the evidence for that cannot be provided?

The drone disconnected and failed to reconnect. The drone failed to return to home.

You seem to have missed the important detail that the drone lost power and fell from the air.
Losing connection is an unavoidable effect of losing power as is failing to return.

 

[worldtraveller]

The gaping hole in your logic is that you have no proof it was a DJI issue that caused the problem.
It might have been, but it might not have been.
DJI offered to meet you halfway without any evidence of the cause of the incident and you accuse them of not standing behind their product?
What kind of customer insists that a problem must be the manufacturer's fault when the evidence for that cannot be provided?

You seem to have missed the important detail that the drone lost power and fell from the air.
Losing connection is an unavoidable effect of losing power as is failing to return.

 

[worldtraveller]

Could this be a case of battery critical error, such has been seen in other similar cases?

Also, when a failsafe system (=return to home) fails then that would put more liability on DJI. There is no evidence that the customer (= myelf) did anything wrong, but as there are a number of very similar instances of disconnection, then the probability would point towards DJI.

As I see it, DJI are just using the lack of .DAT files as an excuse in this case. It was their app which somehow stopped recording .DAT files for the Mavic 2, but it now gives them a very convenient reason to say that there is no evidence. But I think that there is sufficient evidence to point to a failure of either the drone itself (a battery problem), the RC or the software. It was not the operator in this case, nor in some of the other similar cases.

It is reasonable to expect a certain level or reliability in a piece of equipment costing around 1400 euros that is less than 6 weeks old. My unit failed, which is why I am expecting DJI to stand behind their product and replace it.

From what I have read, I am not the only one with this issue.

 

[Meta4]

Also, when a failsafe system (=return to home) fails then that would put more liability on DJI.

And exactly how would you expect the drone to return when it has lost power and fallen from the sky ???

There is no evidence that the customer (= myelf) did anything wrong, but as there are a number of very similar instances of disconnection, then the probability would point towards DJI.

Likewise, there is no evidence that DJI is responsible.
There's just no evidence either way.

Disconnection was not the cause of the problem.
It was just what happens when the drone has lost power.
No power = no props spinning and no radio communications.

But I think that there is sufficient evidence to point to a failure of either the drone itself (a battery problem), the RC or the software. It was not the operator in this case, nor in some of the other similar cases.

It's been explained already but you just don't want to accept the unfortunate fact.
A lack of evidence means it's not possible to tell what the cause of the problem was.
It was your choice to fly out over a deep lake from which recovery was not possible.
You have to accept that it was your choice of flight location that has made it impossible to provide DJI with the evidence they need to determine the cause of the incident.

 

[Shon]

I don’t think any amount of argument will sway op.

If I paid 1400 euros for something that fell out of the sky after only a few weeks of use, with no definitive answer as to the cause, I would be reluctant to spend more money with that manufacturer too. DJI’s fault or not, 1400 euros is quite a bit of money to throw away.

As @sar104 said in two different posts, DJI’s policy is understandable, and there are inherent risks when flying. I might take the risk the first time in purchasing the drone, but I’m not willing to take it the second without a more definitive answer.

DJI has enough money to err on the side of the customer, but customers often don’t have enough to err on the side of DJI.

 

[dragoneggs]

Any update?