DJI Ban Questions

[Cafguy]

Let's say I purchase an old Mavic Body and then gut it and put in a diatone Mamba stack? and hot glue some motors on. (Well screw them on). My drone Sure looks like a DJI -So do they pull out their "WW2sy" looking Drone I.D. cards and shoot me down? Do I get an apology from them for shooting down my drone because it contained plastic Molded by the DJI co. or one of its subsidiaries.

 

[plstovall]

Just as another aside on this, Committee just passed it to "ordered to report" on HR 2864. So guess it will be scheduled for house vote at some point. But some in congress say the bill isn't moving fast enough so they want the administration to increase tariffs on DJI drones. It's already at 25%. I've also heard this is to cover their bases as there may be a constitutional issue in regards to the bill. What that may be, I don't know as of yet.

 

[mavic3usa]

Just as another aside on this, Committee just passed it to "ordered to report" on HR 2864. So guess it will be scheduled for house vote at some point. But some in congress say the bill isn't moving fast enough so they want the administration to increase tariffs on DJI drones. It's already at 25%. I've also heard this is to cover their bases as there may be a constitutional issue in regards to the bill. What that may be, I don't know as of yet.

Constitutional issues have never stopped Congress in the past.

 

[BobaFut]

I would like someone to please articulate how this bill prevents DJI from selling, or consumers from purchasing drones for private or commercial use. Like legitimately, no snark. Please explain it to me with citations, not just vibes.

This is my understanding. The new bill, the Countering CCP Drones Act, amends the Secure and Trusted Communications Networks Act of 2019 to essentially add DJI to the list of entities included in the STCNA. From the proposed bill:

To amend the Secure and Trusted Communications Networks Act of 2019 to provide for the addition of certain equipment and services produced or provided by DJI Technologies to the list of covered communications equipment or services published under such Act, and for other purposes.

Okay, that doesn't really tell us much without looking at the STCNA. The summary of the STCNA on the Congressional website describes it thusly:

Specifically, the bill prohibits the use of certain federal funds to obtain communications equipment or services from a company that poses a national security risk to U.S. communications networks. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) must publish and maintain a list of such equipment or services.

So okay, when combined with Stefanik's bill this would ban the use of certain federal funds from being used to purchase DJI products or contract services that use DJI products. How does this affect my ability to buy and use a DJI drone for my real estate photography business? I don't want to ignore the impact this will have on some businesses who do work with the federal government or who get funding via federal grants or whatever. But people here (and just about everyone in the drone space) are talking about a consumer ban and I just don't understand where that is coming from. I'm happy to be wrong about my understanding but I have seen no explanation of how this bill actually prohibits consumer sales/purchases/uses.

I'm also not implying that this bill is okay. It's not. But there just seems to be a maddening amount of misinformation floating around that seems (again, unless my understanding is incorrect) to be freaking people out for no reason (or perhaps for the wrong reasons).

 

[mavic3usa]

^I've seen multiple bills and some of them are federal only, many of them are state bans, and only one has suggested a ban that would prohibit consumers for using DJI drones. This full frontal assault on DJI drones using an onslaught of comprehensive bills is designed to confused the people and to some extent the legislators and flood them with so many wacky bills that we are unable to truly understand the scope and the likelihood that some of these bills will slip thru is higher. It's a tactic of deception complete with hidden caveats and rules/regulations that are vague and open to interpretation. The high volume promotes the velocity of the ban effort (which would otherwise take years) and creates an atmosphere of hysteria especially among those who get their information from questionable sources.

The only passive way I know to prevent a DJI from legally flying is to revoke the FCC. None of us will fly a drone without proper FCC authorization, that's too risky in so many ways. Never mind blocking the signals, cutting off the apps, grounding the drone, quarantine at the border, etc. We know this is coming and if we're not prepared, consider your hobby as over.

 

[BobaFut]

^I've seen multiple bills and some of them are federal only, many of them are state bans, and only one has suggested a ban that would prohibit consumers for using DJI drones. This full frontal assault on DJI drones using an onslaught of comprehensive bills is designed to confused the people and to some extent the legislators and flood them with so many wacky bills that we are unable to truly understand the scope and the likelihood that some of these bills will slip thru is higher. It's a tactic of deception complete with hidden caveats and rules/regulations that are vague and open to interpretation. The high volume promotes the velocity of the ban effort (which would otherwise take years) and creates an atmosphere of hysteria especially among those who get their information from questionable sources.

The only passive way I know to prevent a DJI from legally flying is to revoke the FCC. None of us will fly a drone without proper FCC authorization, that's too risky in so many ways. Never mind blocking the signals, cutting off the apps, grounding the drone, quarantine at the border, etc. We know this is coming and if we're not prepared, consider your hobby as over.

Yes I think this is the right way of thinking about it. Not necessarily "this bill will take away your drone," (which so much of the discourse seems to be about, unfortunately) but rather (content warning: politics) "your reps are xenophobic idiots who care less about facts and what their constituents want than they do about scoring cheap political points with voters who don't know better." DJI is a convenient and easy target and this is all just a cynical ploy to appear "tough on China," and they are just throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks. And this even a Republican vs. Democrat thing. It's coming from both sides.

 

[plstovall]

^I've seen multiple bills and some of them are federal only, many of them are state bans, and only one has suggested a ban that would prohibit consumers for using DJI drones. This full frontal assault on DJI drones using an onslaught of comprehensive bills is designed to confused the people and to some extent the legislators and flood them with so many wacky bills that we are unable to truly understand the scope and the likelihood that some of these bills will slip thru is higher. It's a tactic of deception complete with hidden caveats and rules/regulations that are vague and open to interpretation. The high volume promotes the velocity of the ban effort (which would otherwise take years) and creates an atmosphere of hysteria especially among those who get their information from questionable sources.

The only passive way I know to prevent a DJI from legally flying is to revoke the FCC. None of us will fly a drone without proper FCC authorization, that's too risky in so many ways. Never mind blocking the signals, cutting off the apps, grounding the drone, quarantine at the border, etc. We know this is coming and if we're not prepared, consider your hobby as over.

curious, what do you consider being prepared? purchase US made drones? So far everything I've searched for has been cost prohibitive as well as technologically lacking. I'm all ears for something else but it won't come around for years probably. In my case, I had been interested in the Mavic 3M. So far I haven't found anything close unfortunately. My business is new and it may be dead before it really gets started. Sigh.

 

[MS Coast]

^I've seen multiple bills and some of them are federal only, many of them are state bans, and only one has suggested a ban that would prohibit consumers for using DJI drones. This full frontal assault on DJI drones using an onslaught of comprehensive bills is designed to confused the people and to some extent the legislators and flood them with so many wacky bills that we are unable to truly understand the scope and the likelihood that some of these bills will slip thru is higher. It's a tactic of deception complete with hidden caveats and rules/regulations that are vague and open to interpretation. The high volume promotes the velocity of the ban effort (which would otherwise take years) and creates an atmosphere of hysteria especially among those who get their information from questionable sources.

The only passive way I know to prevent a DJI from legally flying is to revoke the FCC. None of us will fly a drone without proper FCC authorization, that's too risky in so many ways. Never mind blocking the signals, cutting off the apps, grounding the drone, quarantine at the border, etc. We know this is coming and if we're not prepared, consider your hobby as over.

A return to the sky-is-falling scenario and the scary language. "full frontal assault," "onslaught," "deception," "hysteria," ...

I'll ask again whether there are any previous cases where the federal government confiscated or disabled a consumer product as you are predicting?

We know this is coming and if we're not prepared, consider your hobby as over.

What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?

 

[plstovall]

A return to the sky-is-falling scenario and the scary language. "full frontal assault," "onslaught," "deception," "hysteria," ...

I'll ask again whether there are any previous cases where the federal government confiscated or disabled a consumer product as you are predicting?



What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?

This may only answer one question, but my understanding is that if DJI becomes "covered", this now allows the FCC to not approve any further drones and can also have approvals revoked. Thereby grounding all DJI dones. Have no idea on how likely this is but it gives the FCC authorization to do so.

 

[mavic3usa]

curious, what do you consider being prepared?

Just so I can clarify my comment, the drone industry needs to prepare for the upcoming wave of legislation designed to end the future expanded use of drones by consumers.

What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?

I won't get into the specifics but if you don't already know what we need to do to prepare to push back then it's already too late. "Prevent" and "ignore" is not a strategy.

Maybe I'm off-base here, which one is closer to what you really meant (or maybe something else)?

1. "I have no idea how to get prepared. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?"

or

2. "I know what needs to be done. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it? I want to hear from you so I have something to argue with you about."

Don't be shy, reach out if you need help on how to fight the long fight. I said this last year, it won't be pretty and you might not agree with all of it or how to get there, but we're a team and we're all on the same side with the same end goal.

I'm hysterical?

Officials swamped by illicit drone invasions of banned US airspaces

The rising number of drone invasions of banned or sensitive US airspaces illustrates a huge, growing problem across the US

dronedj.com

 

[RexAsh]

This would absolutely decimate First Responder Fleets. There are no comparable non-Chinese drones available for them.

With luck, maybe 5-8 years. We not only lack a well designed or built comparable replacement, even if we had one, we lack the manufacturing capabilities to make them.

In a recent study by the Drone Advocacy Alliance (Drone Advocacy Alliance - Home), we found that 67% of all drone businesses would fail if we were forbidden from using Chinese made drones.

100% no. There is no reason at all.

In a recent webinar, Michael Robbins (Co-CEO of AUVSI) said that a transition is not a ban. That is also 100% false. Not only is it a ban at the time when the rule goes into affect, it's basically an immediate ban. Not company of gov't agency (federal, state, or local) will spend 1000s of dollars on a drone program knowing full well that in 2 or 3 years or so they'll have to spend it all over again.

A transition is NOT the answer.

No, they aren't. There is no evidence of any issue. Every single bill and proposed bill is worded to say that the threat is possible, not real. And a country of origin ban wouldn't even address the issue if it did exist. Any drone that is connected to the internet is hackable. And all of these supposed blue drones do connect to the internet.

The only way to truly address this issue is to have the gov't establish a set of true cybersecurity protocols for any drone used in areas with security concerns. And then mandate that those protocols are followed, regardless of where the drone was built. Also, we need to define what actual areas where security concerns exist. Many of these bills are so poorly written, it would prevent drones from flying in our own backyards if we have power lines in them.

The entirety of this mess is predicated on the current anti-China fervor in politics, and spread by unscrupulous US drone manufacturers (specifically Skydio, BRINC, and Teal) who can't compete with DJI or Autel any other way. They buy their way into congressional offices and state houses to spread their lies.

And they have organizations like AUVSI actively pushing their agenda too.

These companies and AUVSI don't care about the U.S. drone industry (especially First Responder Agencies), they only care about their bottom line.

Thanks so much for the time you spent on this, this is the one I will use. Also would you mind giving a bit more insight on question 4 (do you believe it is right to ban DJI drones).

 

[Cafguy]

WOW per the artical above:
"Those recurring sightings sparked the deployment of fighter jets, research aircraft, and other high-power aerial assets to locate and collect information that would permit authorities to identify the UAVs and their operators – in vain."
Dear U.S. Air Force:
Try an iphone app and a car or bicycle
signed
A concerned Taxpayer

 

[Art Cox]

I wonder if DJI could circumnavigate such a "ban" By selling their Drones in Kit form?
If you send me a box of parts Its not manufactured in China is it?
Then again..I guess DJI would have to open source the Drones so they are not dependent on some "App" you have to download to fly..... Once it's put together.

My first QuadCopter was a DYI. I used a DJI Naza-M V2 Flight Controller Version 2.0 with GPS on a DJI F450 frame.

​

 

[MS Coast]

Just so I can clarify my comment, the drone industry needs to prepare for the upcoming wave of legislation designed to end the future expanded use of drones by consumers.

I won't get into the specifics but if you don't already know what we need to do to prepare to push back then it's already too late. "Prevent" and "ignore" is not a strategy.

Maybe I'm off-base here, which one is closer to what you really meant (or maybe something else)?

1. "I have no idea how to get prepared. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?"

or

2. "I know what needs to be done. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it? I want to hear from you so I have something to argue with you about."

Don't be shy, reach out if you need help on how to fight the long fight. I said this last year, it won't be pretty and you might not agree with all of it or how to get there, but we're a team and we're all on the same side with the same end goal.

I'm hysterical?

Officials swamped by illicit drone invasions of banned US airspaces

The rising number of drone invasions of banned or sensitive US airspaces illustrates a huge, growing problem across the US

dronedj.com

1. and 2. are the same question if you remove the emotional additions. It's the same question @plstovall posed.

The word was hysteria. You used it in post #25.

 

[mavic3usa]

1. and 2. are the same question if you remove the emotional additions. It's the same question @plstovall posed.

The word was hysteria. You used it in post #25.

Ok, I'll go with #1 then.

"I have no idea how to get prepared. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?"

Look, if you don't know how to get prepared, not sure what I can do to help you; I can't teach you. Probably not appropriate to discuss it in this thread but if you reach out and you need help in getting prepared for the bad things that are coming and you are interested in pushing back, let us know. I'm sure it will make a great topic. Kinda scary that you can't see the disaster than is heading our way but there's an old saying "what you don't see can't hurt you." BTW, I know what I have to do.

 

[MS Coast]

Ok, I'll go with #1 then.

"I have no idea how to get prepared. What preparation are you suggesting that will prevent the total ban on DJI drones or allow forum members to ignore it?"

Look, if you don't know how to get prepared, not sure what I can do to help you; I can't teach you. Probably not appropriate to discuss it in this thread but if you reach out and you need help in getting prepared for the bad things that are coming and you are interested in pushing back, let us know. I'm sure it will make a great topic. Kinda scary that you can't see the disaster than is heading our way but there's an old saying "what you don't see can't hurt you." BTW, I know what I have to do.

I've contacted my Congressmen on the issue of DJI restrictions. You?

You talk of "bad things" and a "disaster that is heading our way" and promote "push back." You allude to insider information that can't be discussed and a "long fight." You preach doom but "won't get into specifics" in offering suggestions for positive actions.

I'm reminded of the fear of a surge of attacks on drone pilots when RID was implemented. Any reports of RID-aided robberies and violence yet?

 

[mavic3usa]

I've contacted my Congressmen on the issue of DJI restrictions. You?

You talk of "bad things" and a "disaster that is heading our way" and promote "push back." You allude to insider information that can't be discussed and a "long fight." You preach doom but "won't get into specifics" in offering suggestions for positive actions.

I'm reminded of the fear of a surge of attacks on drone pilots when RID was implemented. Any reports of RID-aided robberies and violence yet?

No comment.

 

[Vic Moss]

Thanks so much for the time you spent on this, this is the one I will use. Also would you mind giving a bit more insight on question 4 (do you believe it is right to ban DJI drones).

I 100% believe it is NOT right to ban DJI drones. Or any drone. Not without very specific evidence of any wrongdoing. DJI was put on the covered entities list for supposed human rights violations. Accusations only. No evidence was ever given, and DJI was not given a chance to defend the accusations.

As mentioned if this was an issue, then address the actual problem. Don't beat around the bush. Decide it's an issue, define what the issue it, determine where the issue comes from, and then develop a set of cybersecurity protocols and enforce them. No matter who makes the drone, where it's made, or where the parts are sourced from.

And if this is such an issue, why wait? If China is actually getting data on our critical infrastructure, shut us down now.

This is pure politics and gov't paranoia run amok. It's that simple.

 

[Cafguy]

've contacted my Congressmen on the issue of DJI restrictions. You?

I did and I also screamed at the ceiling. Turns out the ceiling was more help.
I have seen all of this before Only back then it was My fixed wing Balsa wood airplane or as they saw it -missile, would strike your home and instantly kill everyone inside. I would worry less about a total Ban on DJI drones and more about having the gas money to go back and forth from the flying field you are about to be regulated too.
For the photography people who don't posses a 107 cert,- Not a problem. Maybe the AMA will put up some pretty billboards for you to photograph. Maybe even some fake animals or something dotted around the area for you to "find".
At least the people and Bar-BQ's are worth it.
Late addition: I believe that if you are a recreational Drone pilot and you want to fly a drone over 250G outside of a flying field--Your days are numbered.

 

[gogorokokoko]

Gallagher, Bipartisan Lawmakers Call for New Restrictions and Tariffs to Protect Against Threats Posed by Chinese Drones

WASHINGTON, D.C.-- Chairman Mike Gallagher (R-WI) and Ranking Member Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL) of the House Select Committee on the Strategic Competition Between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party today wrote to the Biden administration, calling for immediate action to counter...

selectcommitteeontheccp.house.gov