DJI discontinues Phantom series!

[Former Member]

No argument from me, it is not a deal breaker in my eyes as I use RTH to bring it overhead but always land in manually but there is no arguing that it has a "narrow wheelbase" lol.

I suspect, and I have not heard anything about this, it's just my personal suspicions, that while a P5 would be rather P4 like that due to the propensity of the P4 to tip over and the rotors coming into frame at at speed that DJI may well take a leaf out of some it's competitors book and have a broader more squat land gear and raised engine mounting points ... at least we can hope. I am still a little worried that there has been another change of heart and the whole Phantom line will end since the last information I heard ... but I always was a worrier.

Regards
Ari

I think everyone should use prop guards.

 

[Meta4]

TBH - I think I'm even more confused after watching Bill's video. In any case, I'm excited about the possibility of a Phantom 5 with interchangeable cameras as someone suggested above.
"Until further notice" is kind of ambiguous - could mean anything really.

Bill tDR is the last place you'll ever find any original information.
He doesn't know much and just repeats what he sees on DroneDJ or other Youtube sources which may (or may not) be accurate.

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

We need to catch up for a beer and a chat at some stage Decado

Sure thing mate, I'd love to! We both have a busy one tomorrow (best of luck with that and I hope the weather holds for you) I'll drop you a PM with a phone number after that.


Sorry to drop offline like that, it was storming here like you wouldn't believe so I pulled the plug.

I think people will see the job offers from companies slowly turn away from demanding Phantoms as the preferred drone, and towards the Mavic 2 as the daily workhorse.

In the real estate, events and "pretty pictures" department yes quite possibly. As far as mapping, area and quantity surveys not unless they release one with a mechanical shutter.

Most aerial photographers can get the job done with a Spark, and dont need a P4P

Yes, the P4P is not the first choice for that work.

The mapping industry sounds like the exception to the rule

I suppose it depends on how your business is geared as to what is the exception or the rule. I have all the procedures and risk mitigation in place in my approved ReOC manuals to be allowed to do proximity work and events and fly over built up areas but I simply don't take those jobs. I don't like operating around crowds if I can avoid it, it keeps my insurance premiums down and also there is always plenty of people around the city who do real estate and the like and I'm yet to break into TV or film work (and not too fussed if I don't). My bread and butter is survey, mapping, and inspections of structure, buildings, bridges and antennas so your exception is my rule and vice versa I would guess.

I personally find the Mavic to be the most stable drone at any altitude and in any condition. Maybe that's just me. The Phantom has a huge profile, and the wind bats it around.

At slow speeds this is true but as speed increases the Mavic's advantage fades away. At speed the Mavic needs to take on such a steep angle of attack that it's sail profile increases greatly. According to Airdata UAV who are averaging out records from over 2 million flights if you take it to the extreme end at 40 Mph the Mavic airframe has dropped to around 47% efficiency compared to a hover equating to about 13 minutes of battery life, the P4 Airframe has only fallen to about 72% efficiency meaning around 20 minutes per battery. So if you are buzzing slowly around or hovering while lining up and doing nice film or photos with the occasional dash from place to place to change angles then the Mavic is your choice. If on the other hand you are surveying large tracts of land while taking images on the move at speed for a map at industry levels of accuracy then the P4 gets it every time. My average waypoint run for a photo mosaic is conducted at 91m AGL and 32.9 Kph at .50Hz (a frame taken every 2 seconds) for an 80% overlap. I need 5 batteries on the mavic to do what I can do with 3 on the P4 and then the mavic has the speed distortion caused by the rolling software shutter. Also I carry all of my birds in hard shell suitcase style protection for job sites so for me a lot of the portability advantage is moot.

As I said earlier, I've got both so I just choose the one I need for the job I'm doing. I'm trying to convince the Mrs that I really need a Matrice 600 for the business now, wish me luck

Regards
Ari

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

I think everyone should use prop guards.

If you are flying around crowds without doubt! As I rarely do most times I don't use them so I don't have to worry about them getting into frame.

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

Bill tDR is the last place you'll ever find any original information.

Now now, I was trying to be nice LOL

 

[silverdragon]

Oooppss, the OP, has to read twice and write once before posting, or was it measure twice,,,oh forget it ...

 

[Former Member]

Sure thing mate, I'd love to! We both have a busy one tomorrow (best of luck with that and I hope the weather holds for you) I'll drop you a PM with a phone number after that.


Sorry to drop offline like that, it was storming here like you wouldn't believe so I pulled the plug.



In the real estate, events and "pretty pictures" department yes quite possibly. As far as mapping, area and quantity surveys not unless they release one with a mechanical shutter.



Yes, the P4P is not the first choice for that work.



I suppose it depends on how your business is geared as to what is the exception or the rule. I have all the procedures and risk mitigation in place in my approved ReOC manuals to be allowed to do proximity work and events and fly over built up areas but I simply don't take those jobs. I don't like operating around crowds if I can avoid it, it keeps my insurance premiums down and also there is always plenty of people around the city who do real estate and the like and I'm yet to break into TV or film work (and not too fussed if I don't). My bread and butter is survey, mapping, and inspections of structure, buildings, bridges and antennas so your exception is my rule and vice versa I would guess.



At slow speeds this is true but as speed increases the Mavic's advantage fades away. At speed the Mavic needs to take on such a steep angle of attack that it's sail profile increases greatly. According to Airdata UAV who are averaging out records from over 2 million flights if you take it to the extreme end at 40 Mph the Mavic airframe has dropped to around 47% efficiency compared to a hover equating to about 13 minutes of battery life, the P4 Airframe has only fallen to about 72% efficiency meaning around 20 minutes per battery. So if you are buzzing slowly around or hovering while lining up and doing nice film or photos with the occasional dash from place to place to change angles then the Mavic is your choice. If on the other hand you are surveying large tracts of land while taking images on the move at speed for a map at industry levels of accuracy then the P4 gets it every time. My average waypoint run for a photo mosaic is conducted at 91m AGL and 32.9 Kph at .50Hz (a frame taken every 2 seconds) for an 80% overlap. I need 5 batteries on the mavic to do what I can do with 3 on the P4 and then the mavic has the speed distortion caused by the rolling software shutter. Also I carry all of my birds in hard shell suitcase style protection for job sites so for me a lot of the portability advantage is moot.

As I said earlier, I've got both so I just choose the one I need for the job I'm doing. I'm trying to convince the Mrs that I really need a Matrice 600 for the business now, wish me luck

Regards
Ari

Do you really do mapping at 40mph wide open throttle? If so, then I can imagine that the M2s efficiency vs the P4P would be an issue, as you pointed out, for sure. However, neither the M2 or the P4 is designed to fly at those speeds for prolonged periods of time due to the drag and required pitch angle. Also, Im pretty sure that any video at that speed on either drone is going to be bouncy, unclear, and unstable. At more reasonable and controllable speeds, the Mavics power to weight ratio exceeds the Phantoms, and flight duration is superior.

Another question for you would be why dont you use external batteries??? Then instead of going through 5 batteries in the Mavic, you could go through 2 flight of 3 batteries each. Thats what I would do.

Yes it doesnt sound like the Mavic 2 is ideal for your line of work, but only because its rolling shutter is not ideal for mapping, in your case. However if you slowed the flight down, used external batteries, and increased the endurance of your drone, who knows, maybe it would work for you. It would be very impressive to the client as well, if you showed up with a "Spirit of St Louis" looking drone armed to the teeth with external power storage.

 

[mrhinman]

Mark my words, there WILL be a DJI announcement within the next two months with a new aircraft. No word yet on whether it will be a P4PV3 or a P5 or something completely different, but something will be announced.

 

[Former Member]

Mark my words, there WILL be a DJI announcement within the next two months with a new aircraft. No word yet on whether it will be a P4PV3 or a P5 or something completely different, but something will be announced.

Is that you Frank Wang?

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

Do you really do mapping at 40mph wide open throttle?

No mate, that's just the extreme figures quoted by Airdata UAV. I did put the figures in but you must have missed it (Don't blame you, I make long posts I know).

I do the average mapping or photo mosaic mission with the P4 at 91m height AGL (300Ft) traveling at 32.9Kph (20.5 Mph) and I take 4:3 4K still shots (not video) at 0.50Hz (one shot every 2 seconds). This gives you an overlap on each side and front and back of 80% and allows you to generate a map or image with 2.5cm (1 inch) resolution which is what is required to meet industry standards.

However, neither the M2 or the P4 is designed to fly at those speeds for prolonged periods of time due to the drag and required pitch angle. Also, Im pretty sure that any video at that speed on either drone is going to be bouncy

Both aircraft will handle 20Mph all day long but the Mavic has to assume quite a bit more angle of attack than the P4. At 20Mph the P4 is still at 90% efficiency meaning you lose about 3 minutes from the hover time. The Mavic drops away sharply over 15Mph and at 20Mph loses about 7 minutes of battery life compared to at hover. So while at slow speed the Mavic has a much smaller frontal sail area once you reach 20Mph due to the greater angle of attack of the Mavic the P4 then has a smaller frontal cross section and is in fact more stable and less wind effected.

Phantom 4 airframe
---------------------------------



Mavic Airframe





Once again, as I said I am taking stills not video. Computer processing time is horrendous enough when stitching stills, if you try and process video (it can be done) that time blows out to weeks.

Another question for you would be why dont you use external batteries???

This is something I am looking at with my Inspire, it's a mod that's been around for a few years now and can almost double your airtime if done right which makes it worthwhile although it can end up looking like frankenstein's monster with rotors.

Neither the P4 or the Mavic has enough lifting power to carry enough external batteries to make it worth while and the increased weight of what batteries they can lift reduces the time to weight ratio to the point where you might as well not have bothered. Way too much fiddle for a couple of minutes tops.

but only because its rolling shutter is not ideal for mapping

Yes, that is the major issue, battery duration is a factor but I'd live with the extra batteries required if the camera was up to snuff.

As I said before, all this holds true for me and other people doing that sort of work. If your job is to take rich highly saturated stills or videography of events, nature or lanscapes for example then the M2P is your "go to" bird. I can equal the prettyness of the the M2P with the P4P if I do post processing but for sheer prettyness straight off the memory card without any manipulation you can't beat the M2Pro. That's why is so popular with the masses. It allows even new comers to get the kind of results that used to required a lot of know how and manipulation in post before they hit the market.

Regards
Ari

 

[Mav.phant.inspire]

The phantom has died and become a... ghost [emoji317]

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

Mark my words, there WILL be a DJI announcement within the next two months with a new aircraft.

Hi mrhinman

Yes as I said before I dragged the thread way off topic (my apologies everyone, never ask me a question ... I might answer! lol) the DJI people were told to expect a release earlier this year so it's over due and it wont be about a P4 ( or so I've been told).

Regards
Ari

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

The phantom has died and become a... ghost

Yup *sniff* but it still lives on, hell there's still people flying Phantom 2 series =-|

 

[thefrozenhawaiian]

I would VERY surprised if DJI killed off the phantom line entirely. it's a product line that has and continues to sell well and fits neatly into the DJI product line between the inspire series and the mavic series.

 

[frank candor]

DJI discontinues Phantom series! It’s on their website! They strongly point customers to the more capable Mavic Pro series!
DJI Phantom Drone

are they accepting trade-ins?

 

[msinger]

are they accepting trade-ins?

You can get more for your used drones elsewhere, but they do offer trade-ins via the DJI Trade Up program.

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

What msinger said

If it's in good working order you'll get far more for it on the second hand market than as a trade. I've seen P4P V2.0s with the original packaging bring as much as new ... I've heard claims of people selling them currently for more than they were bought for.

Regards
Ari

 

[Former Member]

Yup *sniff* but it still lives on, **** there's still people flying Phantom 2 series =-|

Yes, but there are also people driving 66 VW bugs, but only on Sunday mornings. Their other car might be a Camry for M-F commutes lol

 

[Remote Pilots Australia]

Yes, but there are also people driving 66 VW bugs, but only on Sunday mornings. Their other car might be a Camry for M-F commutes lol

Yes, and then there's the guy who drove his beetle across Bass straight from the Australian mainland to Tasmania ... let's see you do that in your Camry XD (to be fair it did take him two tries, he sank the first time lol).

For that matter there are still regional carriers flying DC-3s and C-46s because even after 70 years there's nothing come along that's better under those perculiar, particular conditions for that particular job at any price point. Or how about the AN-2 Biplane ... in production from 1946 to 2001 and still in service with military and civilian operators around the world lol Why? Because they are unrivaled in their niche.

The P4P is one of those that is still unrivaled in it's niche and will remain so until and if the P5 or something with a mechanical shutter arrives to replace it. It's not the airframe, it's the camera and nothing at less than 5 times the price that has it's equal for orthomosaics and mapping.

I kid you not, I'm still not sure that I should have bought the Inspire, I often think I would have been better off (for my needs I stress, not yours) buying another P4P V2.0 while I can still get one.

Oh BTW! You mentioned yesterday that there was a fair price difference between the Mavic 2 and the P4P in the U.S. I was going to comment that out here the Mavic 2 Pro has a MSRP of $2398 and the P4P V2.0 is $2395 .... It sucks to be an Aussie sometimes, we call it the "downunder tax".

P.S. this is all "good fun banter" right? I'm certainly not looking at getting under anyone's skin which is so easy to do with the written word even when it's the last thing you mean to do.

Regards
Ari

 

[NorthGADronePilot]

YAY!!!!!!!!

DJI will now focus more of their attention on the well deserved Mavic series.

Amen to that. The Phantom Series served its useful life, and now it's time to move onward and upward. Personally, I consider the Phantom a huge, bulky desktop computer in a world dominated by laptops, tablets, etc.