DJI or Third-Party chargers?

[wco81]

The 100W chargers are tempting to cut 20 minutes of charging time.

But charging at higher rate is suppose to degrade batteries.

For instance, you can go to superchargers for electric vehicles but supposedly using them too much reduces the service life of the EV batteries.

 

[slup]

The 100W chargers are tempting to cut 20 minutes of charging time.

But charging at higher rate is suppose to degrade batteries...

DJI batteries with a BMS chip usually can't be charged faster than 1C ... meaning that they get full (from totally empty) in an hour, in real life when the batteries have been on storage charge level (3,7-3,8V/cell or 1 solid led + one blinking - 2 solid leds + one blinking) that means approx 45min until full.

A 1C charge is considered to be a normal charge & not a quick charge...

 

[wco81]

I thought someone put up specs showing 80 minutes for 65W chargers and 60 minutes for 100W chargers.

So it's shaving 25% charge time if you use a charger with a little over half more wattage?

I don't know if the amp ratings play into it, not just wattage.

 

[davidarmenb]

The 100W chargers are tempting to cut 20 minutes of charging time.

But charging at higher rate is suppose to degrade batteries.

For instance, you can go to superchargers for electric vehicles but supposedly using them too much reduces the service life of the EV batteries.

The Air 3 batteries, which are four cells in series, have a nominal voltage of 14.76V and a capacity rating of 4.241Ah. Charging at a rate of 100W, which is delivered via USB-C PD at ~20V/5A, is only slightly over 1C of charging (1.18C). Pretty much 1C when you take into account the fact that the battery charges intelligently and the current is not linear, and efficiency losses. So, as slup stated, 100W is not considered quick charging at all. This is in agreement with DJI’s advertised charge times of exactly 60 minutes if using a 100W charger.

I thought someone put up specs showing 80 minutes for 65W chargers and 60 minutes for 100W chargers.

So it's shaving 25% charge time if you use a charger with a little over half more wattage?

I don't know if the amp ratings play into it, not just wattage.

The reason increasing the wattage by ~53% (from 65W to 100W), only decreases charge time by 25% (from 80 minutes to 60 minutes), is because ‘intelligent’ batteries such as those for the Air 3 (along with most lithium-ion batteries today) do not have a linear charge curve; they will charge slower and slower as the battery charge increases closer and closer to 100%.

The 100W charger will indeed charge at 100W. However, this will only be for a portion of the battery charge. After a certain percentage, say when the battery reaches 60-80%, the charge rate will drop dramatically and keep dropping until the battery is full, at which time the battery may only be receiving a few Watts before charging stops completely. This nonlinear charging rate is the reason an increase in charge rate will not provide a 1:1 decrease in charge time.

 

[slup]

... This nonlinear charging rate is the reason...

All there is correct...

It's a pity that DJI's so called "Smart" thing's (in all it's glory & convenience), deprives users from valuable knowledge that I think most, that have bought these high $$$ gadgets wouldn't mind have. With knowledge you can be Smart yourself & for instance treat the equipment nicer than what DJI have programed or hurry up a charge from time to time when needed & knowing the consequences of it.

Especially LiPo & Li-Ion batteries are important to treat with care, they are expensive, can cause disasters & is one of the most crucial components in a drone to keep it airborne.

Knowing thing's like...

-the non-linear behavior both during charging & discharging
-how the internal resistance affects the performance of the battery
-how you...
+should store & use the battery
+get a longer & more reliable service life
+mitigate swelling & know why it occurs
+prevent an increasing internal resistance
+preserve the max capacity
-know what "voltage drops" is & how you need to fly to handle it & mitigate it
-which affects different extreme ambient temps can have
-& how to follow all this up in order to take decisions about "grounding" a battery to prevent a total airborne failure

I general, all in the hobby that uses generic Lithium batteries & chargers usually know all this... but unfortunately many that only uses DJI batteries treat them as any other hardware on the drone & very often becomes totally surprised when the battery fails.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Yeah just like Apple and Samsung have done.

Yes, they all are all pretending we have dozens of the necessary chargers lying around, and they are all heroes, saving the planet, by no longer including them! However, we still need the new higher powered chargers, so not including them saves them money, and costs us more money to buy them, separately, after the sale! Ain't shrinkflation great? LOL!

 

[MS Coast]

Yes, they all are all pretending we have dozens of the necessary chargers lying around, and they are all heroes, saving the planet, by no longer including them! However, we still need the new higher powered chargers, so not including them saves them money, and costs us more money to buy them, separately, after the sale! Ain't shrinkflation great? LOL!

As long as they clearly state what comes with the product and don't falsely say a charger is included, I'm fine with not having a charger included. In some cases, I've already had a charger and I saved money. In other cases, I preferred to buy a charger different from the one they might have included, like a 100W unit rather than 65W.

A charger is required whether it's included in the package or purchased afterward. You buy it directly or the manufacturer includes it with the product and charges you.

 

[davidarmenb]

Since this is a thread about chargers, I’d like to add my experience with one third-party charger.

Before my Air 3 even arrived, I got an Anker 317 100W charger from Amazon for about USD$25.
It’s advertised as a USB-C PD charger for MacBooks/Laptops/Phones and thousands of other devices.

I also have an energy meter throughout my entire house and I can see live power usage from all my outlets, so I had the unique ability to test the actual power coming out of my chargers etc

I plugged it into the Air 3 Charging Hub using the cable that came with it that is rated for 100W, and I wasn’t able to get more than 50-60 Watts. I’ve since recharged three batteries about 6-8 times total, including some that were at ~20% and I still couldn’t get 100W from the Anker brick.

I then used my MacBook’s 65W USB-C brick and I instantly got the full 65W going to the charging hub until the battery was above ~80%, which is when it slowly ramped down until full charge.

After this, I decided to use the Anker brick to charge my MacBook Pro. I used the USB-C cable that came with the Anker brick instead of Apple’s USB-C to MagSafe cable. Lo and behold, my MacBook, which was at 75% charge, showed a 75W draw. in addition, the Mac identified the charger as a “100W” charger. So it totally can provide 100W and the cable comes with it is indeed rated at 100W, it just won’t charge the Air 3 Hub at full power.

I have since purchased the Oraimo AniFast 120W charger hub from Amazon for about USD$29. This has more ports and also comes with a 100W rated USB-C cable. This charger is also advertised as a PPS charger (beside PD) so I am hoping I will get full output. I will post results.

 

[CorgiDaizu]

Anker 100w. Works great, had it since Sept. last year with no issues.

I use the Anker as well.

 

[Occams Razor]

Since this is a thread about chargers, I’d like to add my experience with one third-party charger.

Before my Air 3 even arrived, I got an Anker 317 100W charger from Amazon for about USD$25.
It’s advertised as a USB-C PD charger for MacBooks/Laptops/Phones and thousands of other devices.

I also have an energy meter throughout my entire house and I can see live power usage from all my outlets, so I had the unique ability to test the actual power coming out of my chargers etc

I plugged it into the Air 3 Charging Hub using the cable that came with it that is rated for 100W, and I wasn’t able to get more than 50-60 Watts. I’ve since recharged three batteries about 6-8 times total, including some that were at ~20% and I still couldn’t get 100W from the Anker brick.

I then used my MacBook’s 65W USB-C brick and I instantly got the full 65W going to the charging hub until the battery was above ~80%, which is when it slowly ramped down until full charge.

After this, I decided to use the Anker brick to charge my MacBook Pro. I used the USB-C cable that came with the Anker brick instead of Apple’s USB-C to MagSafe cable. Lo and behold, my MacBook, which was at 75% charge, showed a 75W draw. in addition, the Mac identified the charger as a “100W” charger. So it totally can provide 100W and the cable comes with it is indeed rated at 100W, it just won’t charge the Air 3 Hub at full power.

I have since purchased the Oraimo AniFast 120W charger hub from Amazon for about USD$29. This has more ports and also comes with a 100W rated USB-C cable. This charger is also advertised as a PPS charger (beside PD) so I am hoping I will get full output. I will post results.

I am guessing that the Anker Charger is not fully PPS/PD compliant. Do the Anker specs state PD 3.0? Many of the Anker Chargers use their own proprietary fast charge technology called PIQ which may not support the PPS/PD protocol.

 

[rawman001]

I have a 200W GaN 4 port (2 USB-C and 2 USB-A) that I use to charge most of my devices when at home. I use a Wotobeus 120W 12V charger in my RV, and I have an Anker 757 power station (1229 Wh) that has 2 USB-C ports (plus multiple other types of ports.) I use that when I'm parked somewhere and want to charge batteries without draining my car battery. I typically recharge the RV and Anker with my solar panels. (Not that anyone asked)

 

[rawman001]

I am guessing that the Anker Charger is not fully PPS/PD compliant. Do the Anker specs state PD 3.0? Many of the Anker Chargers use their own proprietary fast charge technology called PIQ which may not support the PPS/PD protocol.

Anker's website says their proprietary Power IQ 3.0 is compatible with PD 3.0 which has PPS integrated.

 

[davidarmenb]

Anker's website says their proprietary Power IQ 3.0 is compatible with PD 3.0 which has PPS integrated.

That’s very interesting because I, too, remember reading that Anker’s PIQ3.0 had PD3.0. This was one reason I didn’t buy the more expensive PIQ4.0 with GaN technology as I didn’t think it was required for my application. I hope my Air 3 Charging hub isn’t somehow defective. I did get the full 65W from my 65W Apple brick so I’m hoping it’s my specific Anker that’s the issue. I’ll have to wait until Monday for the other charger to arrive so I can test it out. I realize most don’t have CT’s on all of their home’s circuit breakers but another easy way to check if they are getting the full 100W is to charge up a battery that’s at 5-10% and time the entire charge cycle. Charging the Air 3 batteries 90-95% at 100W (using the charging hub only, as Air 3’s own charging circuit maxes out at 65W) should take no more than one hour.

 

[rawman001]

That’s very interesting because I, too, remember reading that Anker’s PIQ3.0 had PD3.0. This was one reason I didn’t buy the more expensive PIQ4.0 with GaN technology as I didn’t think it was required for my application. I hope my Air 3 Charging hub isn’t somehow defective. I did get the full 65W from my 65W Apple brick so I’m hoping it’s my specific Anker that’s the issue. I’ll have to wait until Monday for the other charger to arrive so I can test it out. I realize most don’t have CT’s on all of their home’s circuit breakers but another easy way to check if they are getting the full 100W is to charge up a battery that’s at 5-10% and time the entire charge cycle. Charging the Air 3 batteries 90-95% at 100W (using the charging hub only, as Air 3’s own charging circuit maxes out at 65W) should take no more than one hour.

Next time I recharge I'll try to check using my Kill-A-Watt meter and see what it says using a few different chargers/power supplies I have laying around.

 

[Occams Razor]

Anker's website says their proprietary Power IQ 3.0 is compatible with PD 3.0 which has PPS integrated.

I think Anker makes very good products but when I was browsing chargers I noticed that they never stated that their chargers are fully compliant with PD 3.0 on the Amazon listings. I believe there were also a couple of reviews that described they were never able to achieve the same power output with the Anker Charger that they were able to get with their Apple Charger. It's also interesting that many of the companies use the term "compatible" instead of "compliant" which I believe gives them an out but there may be other reasons for that term.

 

[Occams Razor]

I have a Wotobeus 200W charger that has two 100W ports and one 65W ports that are all PD 3.0 compliant. I just measured the power draw and the 100W port produced 108W and the 65W port showed 65.8W when charging my Air 3 batteries though the hub.

 

[wco81]

Is that simultaneously or using only one of the ports at a time?

 

[mavic3usa]

Is that simultaneously or using only one of the ports at a time?

You can always use the ports simultaneously but it is usually not cumulative.

 

[wco81]

You can always use the ports simultaneously but it is usually not cumulative.

Right but this thing is supposedly rated at 200W so I wondered about whether they were starting to put out much higher-power chargers.

 

[slup]

You can always use the ports simultaneously but it is usually not cumulative.

Right but this thing is supposedly rated at 200W ...