Drone may have caused B-17 and P-63 collision at Wings Over Dallas

[DaveS]

I am not going to comment out of respect but take a look of this video folks.

This is fascinating. In this analysis, it looks like the pilot of the small fighter jet made a fatal mistake and there is no mention of a drone or any other object. We'll see.

 

[SharkWatch]

View attachment 157673

If this turns out to be the case it's not going to be good for the droning industry.

Drone May Have Caused B-17 and P-63 Collision at Wings Over Dallas

You cant tell what that is. And its twice the size of the pilots head. That would have to be a commercial size drone. Not our little hobby drones.

 

[Meta4]

You cant tell what that is. And its twice the size of the pilots head. That would have to be a commercial size drone. Not our little hobby drones.

It's only that size if the object was close to the plane.
But it could have been much smaller and much closer, or it could have even been another plane much further away.

 

[SharkWatch]

It's only that size if the object was close to the plane.
But it could have been much smaller and much closer, or it could have even been another plane much further away.

If it wasnt close to the plane... then why are we talking about it?

 

[BigAl07]

If it wasnt close to the plane... then why are we talking about it?

It's a "discussion" and just like almost every other one on here, there are assumptions being made. @Meta4 was merely stating the fact is we Do Not Know it's size, distance, or anything else about it.

It's just a discussion

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

Just curious, will the P63 pilot's body be subject to expert level autopsy? And I don't mean TV station experts, I mean real experts. Just wondering if it is possible he had a heart attack, stroke, seizure or black out etc. and the P63 became nominally uncontrolled but with the pilot's body spasming or flopping about. Probably a bit of a long shot but......
Would an expert medical examiner detect such things?

 

[Yorkshire_Pud]

If this turns out to be pilot error due to lack of situational or spatial awareness then maybe it would be a lesson to those flying BVLOS that believe they have even the remotest sense of awareness around their aircraft.

I doubt it.

 

[dirkclod]

I would think they would

 

[GFields]

Just curious, will the P63 pilot's body be subject to expert level autopsy? And I don't mean TV station experts, I mean real experts. Just wondering if it is possible he had a heart attack, stroke, seizure or black out etc. and the P63 became nominally uncontrolled but with the pilot's body spasming or flopping about. Probably a bit of a long shot but......
Would an expert medical examiner detect such things?

I would think it would be a standard procedure as part of an investigation (especially one that involves fatalities)

FAA Order 8020.11D - Aircraft Accident and Incident​

AM 8025.1C - Federal Aviation Administration​

49 CFR Part 831 -- Investigation Procedures - eCFR​

 

[Ty Pilot]

Just curious, will the P63 pilot's body be subject to expert level autopsy? And I don't mean TV station experts, I mean real experts. Just wondering if it is possible he had a heart attack, stroke, seizure or black out etc. and the P63 became nominally uncontrolled but with the pilot's body spasming or flopping about. Probably a bit of a long shot but......
Would an expert medical examiner detect such things?

Absolutely there will be a full autopsy, blood work and extensive dive into his medical history. If he had any condition that caused this crash, they will almost certainly find it.

 

[dirkclod]

Without going back and watching the videos did I not see part of the rear rudder come off. Maybe I saw it in another forum but
that peice I saw coming off might be what they are saying was a drone.
maybe not rudder but what’s at the back.

 

[Ty Pilot]

I don't think anything suggesting that was posted in this thread, perhaps somewhere else?

There was a crash at the Reno Air Races in 2011 where a P-51 lost an elevator trim tab, which in turn caused a massive loss of pitch control and eventual crash. Perhaps somewhere you saw that?

 

[dirkclod]

I don't think anything suggesting that was posted in this thread, perhaps somewhere else?

There was a crash at the Reno Air Races in 2011 where a P-51 lost an elevator trim tab, which in turn caused a massive loss of pitch control and eventual crash. Perhaps somewhere you saw that?

Might have been that’s what now you said it trim tab.
Thanks for the correction.

 

[Xitor]

This is fascinating. In this analysis, it looks like the pilot of the small fighter jet made a fatal mistake and there is no mention of a drone or any other object. We'll see.

The video you listed,

should be required viewing before posting on this. I think its the best analysis from someone with first knowledge of these aircraft, pilots, etc. Also, the "expert" who proposes a drone is responsible also said, "“I cannot clearly see the drone. What I see is the P-63 in a steep climb." Well, that just tells us how limited his view is because the P-63 was NOT in climb, so if he's wrong about that...

 

[frcaloy]

No altitude advice before historic military plane crash in Dallas

A preliminary NTSB report says no guidance was given on altitudes before a World War II-era fighter plane crashed into a bomber at a Dallas air show.

www.airforcetimes.com

I have experienced bird strikes flying a Cessna and the aircraft flew on without any issues. The birds were probably small, as I was unable to identify them. The most memorable was a bird strike at 1500 feet altitude.

I don't think a collision with a DJI drone can cause a P63 to crash or collide with a B17.

 

[dart106]

If you look at the video of the crash you can see that drones is very unlikely to be blamed.

The “expert” who stated the four points above, demonstrates a complete lack of credibility and factual knowledge about what most everyone else can clearly see. More than likely, someone is looking for 5 minutes of time in the spotlight of fame.

 

[Sharpshooter]

View attachment 157673

If this turns out to be the case it's not going to be good for the droning industry.

Drone May Have Caused B-17 and P-63 Collision at Wings Over Dallas

I shoot that show every year for the CAF, no drone was flying in that airspace, period. The image is way too fuzzy to determine what that object is, but I'd put money on it being one of the zillion Turkey Vultures that ride the Texas thermals in the afternoon. The cause of the accident is clear, the P63 was attempting to reposition per instructions from the Air Boss, he was behind the power curve, came streaking in and rolled wing up, blocking the B17 from his line of sight, and flew through the fuselage. Normally the fighters are in a formation above the bombers (as it was in WWII) but something got out of whack with the King Cobra and at those speeds and proximities it doesn't take long for things to go badly, the B17 was a sitting duck unfortunately.

 

[theDRONEranger]

Mark me down as ‘I do not know what possibly caused the crash!” The good folks at the FAA should take their time to view/review all evidence leading up to and immediately after the event.

Personally, I believe there would have been an emergency action word that would have been employed should ground watchers/spotters have sighted a UAS. Likewise, ground watchers and/or spotters should have been positioned all over the ding dang place. Commonsense! Pilots, upon hearing the emergency word, would maintain attitude and climb. As well as absolutely no person, in their right mind, would ever attempt to pilot a UAS purposefully into the path of a fleet of manned aircraft. Suicide for the UAS and murder charges for UAS pilot!

My thoughts.

May all the souls lost on this unfortunate incident REST IN PEACE!
My most sincere condolences to families, friends, and all loved ones of the deceased.

 

[kingsnake11]

With all due respect to the people who lost their lives in this terrible mishap, I truly believe that any speculation by anyone is really counter productive until the investigation is completed. They may not determine the actual reason for the mishap, but they will provide a detailed analysis based on the evidence and likely make recommendations. I know that the TC or in this case NTSB are very thorough and careful in their approach.

 

[Don Testme]

An object was seen, be it a bird or even another plane off in the distance. Another plane 2000ft behind the video would look small and perhaps look like a UAV. 3D space makes collisions very difficult. For a drone to hit a "warbird" and cause the pilot to lose control and then hit another manned aircraft would be like the odds of winning a lottery ticket. Get the idea out of your heads that it was a drone. You all are falling into the trap of the general public. If something hits a plane or helicopter it must be a drone. And said drone must have caused a serious malfunction in the manned aircraft. If drones could bring down manned aircraft so easily, birds would be doing the same and much more often. Flying manned aircraft would be impossible considering how many large bird strikes there are.