End of the road for Minis in India

[Vaideeshwar]

Not sure on why dji made the move. They've clearly stated on the website that they would never officially launch in india till the time requirements like npnt are done away with. My guess is it's just the DGCA pushing out notices to dji (the recent ban on 'chinese' apps like tiktok and pubg doesn't help either).

Would be a great great help if you could downgrade the app and check if it supports mini2. I'm on v1.1.10 which definitely doesn't implement the 15m restriction. If it supports the mini2, there'll be interim relief, atleast.

Hey! I just downloaded 1.2.0 and it works with the Mini2. Just to be sure, we talking about:

DJI Fly 1.2.0 (Android 6.0+) APK Download by DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD - APKMirror

DJI Fly 1.2.0 (Android 6.0+) APK Download by DJI TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD - APKMirror Free and safe Android APK downloads

www.apkmirror.com

Does this version of DJI Fly has this 15m ceiling for your Mini?

UPDATE: I downloaded 1.1.10 and it doesn't recognize the drone.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

There may be some light after all.

I re-downloaded the latest version of DJI Fly (1.2.1), which enabled me to connect with my Mini2 again. I downloaded a mock location app (FlyGPS) and changed my default location app to this one. While staying in the US, I changed my location to Chennai, a city in Tamil Nadu, India. I re-opened DJI Fly and it thinks I am in Chennai.


I opened the Safety tab under Settings (three dots on top right) to find that there was no ceiling (no 15m limit).


While this is pleasant and makes me think that the ceiling limit set by DJI is probably only for the Mini, the thought only holds water under some assumptions. Firstly, I want to point out that my drone has no GPS satellites (I am indoors) during phone GPS spoofing. I can't guess what would happen if I head out and the drone actually catches GPS signal. It would think I am somewhere in India while it is inside the US. RTH may be affected, but if it is true that the app places this limit based on the location of the phone alone, the Mini2 is unaffected (yet).

My recommendation to you (since you are already in India) is that you stay indoors (0 satellites for drone) and try to spoof the location of your phone (preferably US) and open the latest version of DJI Fly and connect with your mini to see if the 15m ceiling is gone. If the ceiling is gone, it would mean that the app applies the ceiling based on your phone's GPS location and this ceiling under the latest version of the app applies only applies to the Mini.

There are two more interesting cases to test:
1. Drone has no GPS satellites (indoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location
2. Drone has GPS satellites (outdoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location.

UPDATE: Did some thinking to realize that RTH would be unaffected- RTH is set based on drone's location. All we need to find out is if the ceiling is placed based on the controller's (phone) location.

 

[karlblessing]

UPDATE: I downloaded 1.1.10 and it doesn't recognize the drone.

Naturally it wouldn't, it's version 1.2.0 that added support for the Mini 2, anything older than 1.2.0 is only going to support the original Mavic Mini, and Air 2.

 

[karlblessing]

There may be some light after all.

I re-downloaded the latest version of DJI Fly (1.2.1), which enabled me to connect with my Mini2 again. I downloaded a mock location app (FlyGPS) and changed my default location app to this one. While staying in the US, I changed my location to Chennai, a city in Tamil Nadu, India. I re-opened DJI Fly and it thinks I am in Chennai.
View attachment 117329

I opened the Safety tab under Settings (three dots on top right) to find that there was no ceiling (no 15m limit).


While this is pleasant and makes me think that the ceiling limit set by DJI is probably only for the Mini, the thought only holds water under some assumptions. Firstly, I want to point out that my drone has no GPS satellites (I am indoors) during phone GPS spoofing. I can't guess what would happen if I head out and the drone actually catches GPS signal. It would think I am somewhere in India while it is inside the US. RTH may be affected, but if it is true that the app places this limit based on the location of the phone alone, the Mini2 is unaffected (yet).

My recommendation to you (since you are already in India) is that you stay indoors (0 satellites for drone) and try to spoof the location of your phone (preferably US) and open the latest version of DJI Fly and connect with your mini to see if the 15m ceiling is gone. If the ceiling is gone, it would mean that the app applies the ceiling based on your phone's GPS location and this ceiling under the latest version of the app applies only applies to the Mini.

There are two more interesting cases to test:
1. Drone has no GPS satellites (indoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location
2. Drone has GPS satellites (outdoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location.

UPDATE: Did some thinking to realize that RTH would be unaffected- RTH is set based on drone's location. All we need to find out is if the ceiling is placed based on the controller's (phone) location.

While you can probably fake the phone's GPS, you can't fake the GPU on the drone itself. Hence why it's probably not showing the ceiling. But the real test would be to actually try to fly it up past 15m. But that's only if it's not relying on the phone's GPS to determine that.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

While you can probably fake the phone's GPS, you can't fake the GPU on the drone itself. Hence why it's probably not showing the ceiling. But the real test would be to actually try to fly it up past 15m. But that's only if it's not relying on the phone's GPS to determine that.

Right. Exactly my point. Unfortunately, I am in the US and can't confirm anything. The OP can.

 

[atsphenomenon]

Two ways about it. Enforcing via firmware (so all new copies or people who upgraded), or by removing the previous version of the app from being able to download for certain devices.

Just a matter of whether or not DJI wants to inconvenience their international customer base in order to continue to be able to sell their products in India. I'm not sure how big a market share India is of their drone, but probably big enough that they would rather enforce compliance at the hardware/software level than to just simply not be sold there.

Not sure about this. Potential wise, sure india could be a big market. But as of now, it's zilch since DJI doesn't officially sell in the country. They've also vehemently pushed back on DGCA regulations as well as the npnt requirement. They infact have called out clearly that they won't come to India till regulations change, so not sure what's bringing about this enforcement. Here's a dedicated content thread on dji website about this Government Policy Preventing Take-Off of Drones in India - DJI Hub

 

[atsphenomenon]

There may be some light after all.

I re-downloaded the latest version of DJI Fly (1.2.1), which enabled me to connect with my Mini2 again. I downloaded a mock location app (FlyGPS) and changed my default location app to this one. While staying in the US, I changed my location to Chennai, a city in Tamil Nadu, India. I re-opened DJI Fly and it thinks I am in Chennai.
View attachment 117329

I opened the Safety tab under Settings (three dots on top right) to find that there was no ceiling (no 15m limit).
View attachment 117330

While this is pleasant and makes me think that the ceiling limit set by DJI is probably only for the Mini, the thought only holds water under some assumptions. Firstly, I want to point out that my drone has no GPS satellites (I am indoors) during phone GPS spoofing. I can't guess what would happen if I head out and the drone actually catches GPS signal. It would think I am somewhere in India while it is inside the US. RTH may be affected, but if it is true that the app places this limit based on the location of the phone alone, the Mini2 is unaffected (yet).

My recommendation to you (since you are already in India) is that you stay indoors (0 satellites for drone) and try to spoof the location of your phone (preferably US) and open the latest version of DJI Fly and connect with your mini to see if the 15m ceiling is gone. If the ceiling is gone, it would mean that the app applies the ceiling based on your phone's GPS location and this ceiling under the latest version of the app applies only applies to the Mini.

There are two more interesting cases to test:
1. Drone has no GPS satellites (indoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location
2. Drone has GPS satellites (outdoors) while phone GPS is spoofed to a US location.

UPDATE: Did some thinking to realize that RTH would be unaffected- RTH is set based on drone's location. All we need to find out is if the ceiling is placed based on the controller's (phone) location.

Thanks Vaidee. I've tried fake gps in the past (for the FCC hack) and what I understand from it is that the AC will know the actual location once it gets gps lock. The 15m curling that you don't see , will be visible only when you try taking it above that height. You can also try getting the AC airborne and then try to change the height limit - this is when is shows the restriction.

Still, I'm gonna try out the fake gps piece. I don't expect a workaround with this though, but just to cover all bases.

 

[karlblessing]

Not sure about this. Potential wise, sure india could be a big market. But as of now, it's zilch since DJI doesn't officially sell in the country. They've also vehemently pushed back on DGCA regulations as well as the npnt requirement. They infact have called out clearly that they won't come to India till regulations change, so not sure what's bringing about this enforcement. Here's a dedicated content thread on dji website about this Government Policy Preventing Take-Off of Drones in India - DJI Hub

Then it seems odd that they would enforce it in the app.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

Thanks Vaidee. I've tried fake gps in the past (for the FCC hack) and what I understand from it is that the AC will know the actual location once it gets gps lock. The 15m curling that you don't see , will be visible only when you try taking it above that height. You can also try getting the AC airborne and then try to change the height limit - this is when is shows the restriction.

Still, I'm gonna try out the fake gps piece. I don't expect a workaround with this though, but just to cover all bases.

Right. It may or may not work. I did more research to find that CE Mavics exhibited FCC performance when the remote's location was spoofed. It only makes me think that the location is decided primarily by the controller/phone, which is why I believe theory could hold water. Also, there are still no reports of a ceiling on Mini2 drones. While it is probable that there aren't any in India yet (WPC certification takes time maybe), maybe this version spares the Mini2 as of now. We'll never know. But first thing to do is to see if the height restrictions get put into effect by the GPS from AC or Phone.

 

[atsphenomenon]

Then it seems odd that they would enforce it in the app.

Yeah, I'm clueless on why it's been implemented

 

[atsphenomenon]

Right. It may or may not work. I did more research to find that CE Mavics exhibited FCC performance when the remote's location was spoofed. It only makes me think that the location is decided primarily by the controller/phone, which is why I believe theory could hold water. Also, there are still no reports of a ceiling on Mini2 drones. While it is probable that there aren't any in India yet (WPC certification takes time maybe), maybe this version spares the Mini2 as of now. We'll never know. But first thing to do is to see if the height restrictions get put into effect by the GPS from AC or Phone.

Highly unlikely that mini2 won't have this restriction since it's implemented at fly app level on versions after 1.1.10. mini2 will use a later version so the restriction would definitely be there. The only reason you don't read about it yet is because there aren't any mini2's in india.

I will test out the fake gps bit today and report back.

 

[Vaideeshwar]

Highly unlikely that mini2 won't have this restriction since it's implemented at fly app level on versions after 1.1.10. mini2 will use a later version so the restriction would definitely be there. The only reason you don't read about it yet is because there aren't any mini2's in india.

I will test out the fake gps bit today and report back

Sure! Can't wait to find out what happens!

 

[atsphenomenon]

So I tried it out. Not good news.

I set the fake gps to point to somewhere in the US. The fly app reflects the same on firing up. When the AC starts, it takes off thinking it's in the US but the minute it gets gps lock, which in my case was under 20 seconds, it implements the height restriction

So this is clearly a no go. The only bleak hope that I have now is if someone with mini2 in India could confirm if they're facing the same issue. In all probability, they would. Can't think of any reason why dji would keep the mini2 outside of this, unless it's an oversight - which is really wishful thinking at this point rather than anything else. Sigh.

 

[Toast1595]

The older v1.1.10 used to work till now, but last week that version became unavailable. I recently bought a mavic mini a month ago and have been using the older version to bypass the height restrictions. But today i went out to fly and it just said this app is not available anymore. So now the only DJI app that works is the latest version of the app with the height restrctions which absolutely sucks. Some trees are higher than 15 metres. the only workaround i found was taping your bottom sensors so your drone doesn't know how high it is, but it's too risky because you can crash your drone or even lose it. idk

 

[int3rc3pt0r]

It looks like DJI is preparing to launch Mini 2 officially in India from their Amazon Store ( which used to sell Mini 1 )

So to comply with law to sell officially, they have enforced it . You can’t blame DJI as they now know the nano drone market potential in India . The DCGA should change their minds at least on the nano drones and increase height limit .

So all DJI Mini 2’s sold in India officially or through grey market will have the 15 meters height restriction till the laws change .

One thing hobbyists could do is buy the Mavic Air 2 and be happy with it ... ( cost in India for Mavic Air 2 is ₹1.4 Lacs which is very expensive )

It will be frustrating when DJI does the same for Mavic Air 2 or Mavic Pro

 

[DanMan32]

Sounds like the restriction is in the Flysafe database. It could also be hard coded into the firmware. It's the firmware that should be enforcing restrictions.

The app itself shouldn't be enforcing the restriction, just reporting it.
It could have been done that the app enforces the restriction simply by limiting how high you could set the limit, but then the AC could exceed the limit if you had another means of setting the limit and sending to the AC. If it was simply a UI limit, spoofing the location on the phone would be sufficient.

I would have suggested flying without a phone, but that imposes a limit horizontally as well as altitude no matter where in the world.

 

[karlblessing]

So to comply with law to sell officially, they have enforced it . You can’t blame DJI as they now know the nano drone market potential in India . The DCGA should change their minds at least on the nano drones and increase height limit .

The argument they seemed to make for the height limit was to protect privacy. So course the smaller the drone, the less noticeable it is. If anything they'd increase it on larger drones but not smaller ones (ie: like how the Air 2 would classify as a micro and have a 60m limit).

That being said if they increase, it's not going to be on the smallest drone class given their original argument for why they imposed it.

 

[int3rc3pt0r]

The argument they seemed to make for the height limit was to protect privacy. So course the smaller the drone, the less noticeable it is. If anything they'd increase it on larger drones but not smaller ones (ie: like how the Air 2 would classify as a micro and have a 60m limit).

That being said if they increase, it's not going to be on the smallest drone class given their original argument for why they imposed it.

No ... I don't think so it's privacy thing. The government doesn't want to risk "national security" .
The Mavic Air 2 in India is technically illegal to fly. DJI is not implementing the NPNT rule in it so no matter what happens drones above 250 grams will be illegal until and unless DJI complies or the DCGA eases the rules.

But its frustrating for hobbyist like me ...

 

[karlblessing]

No ... I don't think so it's privacy thing. The government doesn't want to risk "national security" .
The Mavic Air 2 in India is technically illegal to fly. DJI is not implementing the NPNT rule in it so no matter what happens drones above 250 grams will be illegal until and unless DJI complies or the DCGA eases the rules.

But its frustrating for hobbyist like me ...

Pretty sure from a national security standpoint, anyone who is using a drone intent on injury/etc isn't going to be using a GPS enabled drone but rather flying custom built FPV.

 

[atsphenomenon]

While nothing has changed structurally since the restriction came in effect, I'm still able to bypass the height limit using the fly app v1.1.10

Also, there's no potential mini2 market in india if the height restriction will continue to be 15m. There's a gentleman by the name of mitul Arora who's now heading the 'public policy' for DJI in India. He has aviation background. My guess is that Dji believes, for whatever reason, that Indian regulations for nano will change and thus they've just gotten a foot in the door by complying. If regulations change (both npnt and height), then nano will no doubt be the biggest opportunity for dji in india.