FAA Drone Tracking

[KanjaniAir]

Everything is tracked to some degree. Our cell phones, cars, video game consoles, etc, etc, and etc. We have spy satellites that can see a pimple on someone's azz. As long as we are breathing, someone is tracking us. Social media tracks us... sells our information to the highest bidder, and moves on to the next project.

I was interested in knowing if there was a way for the feds to track our drones. After reading the information that many of you have graciously posted, I do not even know if the government has the manpower to even track all of the drones and drone pilots in which seems to grow in numbers daily. We can't fly over national parks or close to anything else... but they want to spend tax payer dollars to see where we are flying out of some back ally somewhere.

 

[sar104]

Everything is tracked to some degree. Our cell phones, cars, video game consoles, etc, etc, and etc. We have spy satellites that can see a pimple on someone's azz. As long as we are breathing, someone is tracking us. Social media tracks us... sells our information to the highest bidder, and moves on to the next project.

I was interested in knowing if there was a way for the feds to track our drones. After reading the information that many of you have graciously posted, I do not even know if the government has the manpower to even track all of the drones and drone pilots in which seems to grow in numbers daily. We can't fly over national parks or close to anything else... but they want to spend tax payer dollars to see where we are flying out of some back ally somewhere.

I'm not clear what you are getting at. The primary purpose of tracking is to deconflict with other air traffic, both manned and unmanned, which may occur anywhere, especially when/if commercial drone delivery operations ramp up.

 

[Meta4]

There you go again. Trot out the old 'conspiracy theorist' brush to discredit those who oppose your viewpoint.

Yeah .. that's just a side effect of wanting to find actual evidenceand facts before believing something.

 

[sar104]

Yeah .. that's just a side effect of wanting to find actual evidenceand facts before believing something.

There you go again with your facts and evidence requirements. That's so Moynihan...

 

[Chip]

Who is Moynihan? ?

 

[Meta4]

Who is Moynihan?

Daniel Patrick Moynihan was a four-term United States Senator from New York, United Nations ambassador and adviser to Presidents John Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon.

Moynihan famously said that people are entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts. He also liked to quote the maxim that “it’s not ignorance that hurts so much as knowing all those things that ain’t so.” Which can only make you wonder how much he, as that rare commingling of politician and public intellectual, would be wincing at the categorical claims coming from Congress and the White House nowadays.

Moynihan distinguished himself because he derived his policy positions from research, rather than by cherry-picking statistics to justify those policies.

 

[Chip]

Yes okay I know exactly who you mean. I liked Moynihan and thought he was great. Did not know he was source of those two quotes though. It’s amazing what you learn on the drone forum! I was all fired up to throw down on privacy tonight but you sidetracked me with this.

 

[Drgnfli]

I'll give you a bit of advice, the FAA monitor sites like this just like any other government agency that collects information for possible threats/violations. People have been sent letters of warning for videos on social media sites of violations of FAA regulations. So this is not just a thing, but an actual fact and your curiosity can get you added to a list of people to watch. I would suggest you always think and talk of proper flying technics and conduct all your flight operations within the guild lines of the FAA.

Yep! BIG BROTHER IS... WATCHING...
~

 

[Macinfo]

I would think with all the security firms running around out there routinely highlighting bugs in every OS you can think of. If DJI's software or drones were actually sending more info back to China than one might expect. someone I think would notice.. Having politicians or spy agencies say that they do without some real proof could be nothing more than more fake news.

While DJI does gather flight data from flights that gets stored in the app, on your device, I am not sure if it automatically goes to a DJI server, or if you have to tell it to sync, plus, most people are just flying in places that you could easily see on Google maps..

While perhaps someone is spying, there are probably easier ways.. and some of it might be as simple as higher education universities accepting slews of Chinese students, that get into perhaps technical programs that maybe they should not be in, and collect useful info to go back home with..

 

[KanjaniAir]

In this day and age, there isn't much that isn't tracked when it comes to software driven devices. My concern is whether or not the FAA is tracking drone pilots like they do regular aircraft. I know that there may a component in the software that could report somewhere to a server to keep tabs on our activity. If there is a way to track us, I am sure that there is someone out there figuring out how to slow it down or stop it altogether.

There are so many places that we have been blocked from flying over, so my question also centered around just how can they make some of these baseless rules without some type of actual information in where we are flying. I am also aware that it doesn't take much to make these idiot rules, but it is still good to know.

 

[Meta4]

My concern is whether or not the FAA is tracking drone pilots like they do regular aircraft. I know that there may a component in the software that could report somewhere to a server to keep tabs on our activity. If there is a way to track us, I am sure that there is someone out there figuring out how to slow it down or stop it altogether.

It's already been pointed out that the FAA is not tracking your drone because they have no way to track your drone.
They have no idea when or where you fly.
Read post #15 again

my question also centered around just how can they make some of these baseless rules without some type of actual information in where we are flying

As they don't know where anyone is flying, this question isn't valid.

 

[sar104]

In this day and age, there isn't much that isn't tracked when it comes to software driven devices.

Not true.

My concern is whether or not the FAA is tracking drone pilots like they do regular aircraft.

They are not, because sUAS don't show up on radar and don't transmit ADS-B data.

I know that there may a component in the software that could report somewhere to a server to keep tabs on our activity.

No, there isn't - trivially obviously so if you don't connect to the internet, but not even if you do.

If there is a way to track us, I am sure that there is someone out there figuring out how to slow it down or stop it altogether.

Moot.

There are so many places that we have been blocked from flying over,

Not in comparison to all the places that you can fly over.

so my question also centered around just how can they make some of these baseless rules

Baseless in what way? They are based on enforcing existing law.

without some type of actual information in where we are flying.

Obviously they have some idea where illegal flights are happening, if only because dumb idiots post their videos. But also because they are observed.

I am also aware that it doesn't take much to make these idiot rules, but it is still good to know.

In fact it's a huge effort to implement these kinds of systems, and the implementation, to enable all these hobby and commercial sUAS activities to continue safely, will be borne mostly by the taxpayer and the industry. So no - it looks like you are not aware of much at all.

 

[KanjaniAir]

It's already been pointed out that the FAA is not tracking your drone because they have no way to track your drone.
They have no idea when or where you fly.
Read post #15 again


As they don't know where anyone is flying, this question isn't valid.

Asked and answered...

 

[KanjaniAir]

Not true.


They are not, because sUAS don't show up on radar and don't transmit ADS-B data.


No, there isn't - trivially obviously so if you don't connect to the internet, but not even if you do.


Moot.


Not in comparison to all the places that you can fly over.


Baseless in what way? They are based on enforcing existing law.


Obviously they have some idea where illegal flights are happening, if only because dumb idiots post their videos. But also because they are observed.


In fact it's a huge effort to implement these kinds of systems, and the implementation, to enable all these hobby and commercial sUAS activities to continue safely, will be borne mostly by the taxpayer and the industry. So no - it looks like you are not aware of much at all.

Without getting into a verbal battle... I am aware of more than you have stated. I do not take our freedoms lightly, and I am also well aware of the fact that what we are "told" is usually not the case. The government does not like to be in the dark on anything. And where they are, they find ways to be in the know. To simply think that there is one area in where they just don't care might be simplistic at best. There are too many people flying and having complaints filed against them. I am not paranoid, not in the slightest, but I am also not stupid in how things work.

Flying in airspace with commercial traffic without any type of tracking just doesn't seem like something that is going to go without conversation or tracking. The conversation and questions are not moot, but something to cause thought and dialog. Which, is what this entire conversation was about in the first place.

My question was asked... and answered. So... I thank everyone who took the time to offer valid thoughts and facts, as well as taking part in this conversation.

 

[BuffsDrone]

Agreed thatthe thought of drones being equipped with a transponder or something equivalent is absurd

but I don't think its a hardware issue. I think all this can be tracked with software, and very easily. There are plenty of apps out there that will record every position of your drone. Not too much of a stretch to assuming DJI or other companies will eventually put that same code in their apps without our knowledge. It may already be there. no need to put any hardware on the drone. And once you have the data, any analyst can easily find those people in violation

 

[Meta4]

I am also well aware of the fact that what we are "told" is usually not the case.
The government does not like to be in the dark on anything. And where they are, they find ways to be in the know. To simply think that there is one area in where they just don't care might be simplistic at best.

The difficulty dispelling conspiracy theories is that their proponents are resistant to facts and logic, preferring to live living in a fantasy world.
You've had the truth explained to you but prefer fiction.

There are too many people flying and having complaints filed against them. I am not paranoid, not in the slightest, but I am also not stupid in how things work.

The number of flying and having complaints filed against them is extremely small.
The reasons they get caught are not mysterious.
You've come up with an explanation that defies the way that things actually work and appears rather paranoid,

My question was asked... and answered.

And it would seem that the answers to your questions were rejected and ignored.

 

[KanjaniAir]

The difficulty dispelling conspiracy theories is that their proponents are resistant to facts and logic, preferring to live living in a fantasy world.
You've had the truth explained to you but prefer fiction.

The number of flying and having complaints filed against them is extremely small.
The reasons they get caught are not mysterious.
You've come up with an explanation that defies the way that things actually work and appears rather paranoid,

And it would seem that the answers to your questions were rejected and ignored.

It is amazing how some of you enjoy insulting others. What may be in your area may also not be the same in others. To speak down and insult others over a question tells me a lot about some members of the group. If all that you can do is look to find fault in someone's comments to make yourself seem extremely knowledgeable is pathetic.

I am a software engineer and I see back doors into programs everyday that feeds information to sources that might surprise you. As stated previously, the software that we use contains our flight records. That data is mined in one way or another and who knows who is monitoring it. I do not dismiss that. But then again, people agree to software agreements (EULA) everyday without reading them because they just want to move on to the next step.

I have been more than kind in reading and replying to information that I have read and expressing my First Amendment by asking a question in the first place. Which was the actual first question that I have asked this group. Saying that I "prefer fiction", or that "maybe I am unaware as to how things work", have been nothing more than insulting and childish. If you have knowledge to share, then share. If not, then why insult the person asking the question? I don't get why the rude temperaments.

I did not see anyone else who has commented within this topic called the names and insulted like I have been. For the ones who have decided to insult me, if you are so knowledgeable about all of the technology and laws, then why not just create a white paper, or do a series of YouTube videos to explain to those of us whose knowledge is far beneath you how it all works?

From the information that I have seen that you and others have left in a reply... the FAA is not tracking anyone's drones. There it is. I have already agreed by saying, "asked and answered". I came here to learn... not to be insulted.

 

[RkyMtnHigh]

Again, not to beat a deadhorse on this subject, but the FAA really doesn't have the capability, nor the manpower to be honest, to spend an exorbitant amount of money and time on this. Yes, they are concerned about the safety side of it. Drone operator's need to be familiar with the different types of airspace and requirements. You fly into Class A airspace, which if you do I'd be highly impressed with and would want one of those drones, and you may get a knock on your door, if they can find out who's drone it actually was. Class B would be the most likely, and most restrictive airspace we would fly into, and if you're found to be a guilty party you would face some strict fines. Class B airspace is highly controlled, and for good reason. Now, how would the FAA know if you were in there or not? More than likely a visual report from a pilot, relayed to the controller and passed on to local law enforcement with a general position and/or a latitude and longitude. The MA2 has ADS-B capability, so that would be much easier to see and track. Either way it would be dealt with a heavy hand, no different than shining a laser at an aircraft. But to reiterate, the FAA is does not have the capability, manpower nor general resources to track every drone flying out there. The rules are being formulated with safety of the public, both flying and on the ground, in mind. I'm not trying to belittle or upset anyone. I just have a lot of inside knowledge and like passing it on when I can.(32 years air traffic controller/operations supervisor with the FAA)

 

[KanjaniAir]

Again, not to beat a deadhorse on this subject, but the FAA really doesn't have the capability, nor the manpower to be honest, to spend an exorbitant amount of money and time on this. Yes, they are concerned about the safety side of it. Drone operator's need to be familiar with the different types of airspace and requirements. You fly into Class A airspace, which if you do I'd be highly impressed with and would want one of those drones, and you may get a knock on your door, if they can find out who's drone it actually was. Class B would be the most likely, and most restrictive airspace we would fly into, and if you're found to be a guilty party you would face some strict fines. Class B airspace is highly controlled, and for good reason. Now, how would the FAA know if you were in there or not? More than likely a visual report from a pilot, relayed to the controller and passed on to local law enforcement with a general position and/or a latitude and longitude. The MA2 has ADS-B capability, so that would be much easier to see and track. Either way it would be dealt with a heavy hand, no different than shining a laser at an aircraft. But to reiterate, the FAA is does not have the capability, manpower nor general resources to track every drone flying out there. The rules are being formulated with safety of the public, both flying and on the ground, in mind. I'm not trying to belittle or upset anyone. I just have a lot of inside knowledge and like passing it on when I can.(32 years air traffic controller/operations supervisor with the FAA)

Thank you so much for that very detailed explanation! Thank you!