FAAST Seminar, Shoot down question.....

[Crow Horse]

I attended (online) a FAAST safety seminar and I asked the question,"What role will the FAA play in the event of a shoot down?" I was under the impression that sUAS's are considered aircraft and shooting at one would at least in concept, be the same as shooting at a manned aircraft. Apparently I was wrong and I was a little disturbed by the answer I received. I was told by an FAA rep that the FAA would play no role and it was up to local law enforcement to deal with (destruction of private property). Is this correct?

I understand that in the great scheme of things, sUAS's don't rate much attention and the FAA is overburdened with work.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Vic Moss]

Is this seminar recorded? And who put it on? I'm dealing with this with two separate drone pilots. And who was the FAA rep on the webinar?

 

[Vic Moss]

... also, when was this? I'm sending this to my FAA contacts to see what this is about.

 

[Brockrock]

I attended (online) a FAAST safety seminar and I asked the question,"What role will the FAA play in the event of a shoot down?" I was under the impression that sUAS's are considered aircraft and shooting at one would at least in concept, be the same as shooting at a manned aircraft. Apparently I was wrong and I was a little disturbed by the answer I received. I was told by an FAA rep that the FAA would play no role and it was up to local law enforcement to deal with (destruction of private property). Is this correct?

I understand that in the great scheme of things, sUAS's don't rate much attention and the FAA is overburdened with work.

Thoughts on this?

I would say that this rep was kind of right. If we are talking shooting at a UAV and only damaging it, the FAA would very likely refer that to local LE. If the UAV then fell and caused serious injury or death, the FAA would involve themselves in the investigation, and they would surely apply every applicable regulation violation to their enforcement action.

 

[Vic Moss]

I would say that this rep was kind of right. If we are talking shooting at a UAV and only damaging it, the FAA would very likely refer that to local LE. If the UAV then fell and caused serious injury or death, the FAA would involve themselves in the investigation, and they would surely apply every applicable regulation violation to their enforcement action.

That's not how it works. LEO report to LEAP (Law Enforcement Assistant Program), LEAP suggest to FSDO whether or not to send to DOJ. It's always (& I mean in every case I've been part of) the DOJ (or DOT OIG) that refuses to do anything once it's referred to them.

 

[Crow Horse]

Is this seminar recorded? And who put it on? I'm dealing with this with two separate drone pilots. And who was the FAA rep on the webinar?

Vic, It was a Drone Safety Day presentation, held yesterday (6/18) and presented by the FAAST team. It was hosted by Mike Harris, FAA FAASTeam Drone Pro Safety Representative. My question was fielded by William Abbott, the Rochester FSDO Airworthiness FAA Safety Team Program Manager. I don't believe it was recorded. There was no mention of them doing so and I haven't found any links for it if they had recorded it.

 

[Vic Moss]

Vic, It was a Drone Safety Day presentation, held yesterday (6/18) and presented by the FAAST team. It was hosted by Mike Harris, FAA FAASTeam Drone Pro Safety Representative. My question was fielded by William Abbott, the Rochester FSDO Airworthiness FAA Safety Team Program Manager. I don't believe it was recorded. There was no mention of them doing so and I haven't found any links for it if they had recorded it.

Thanks, I'll reach out to Meehan and try and figure out why Mr. Harris said that.

If that's the new attitude at the FAA, this month's AAAC meeting in DC will be worth watching online.

 

[Crow Horse]

Thanks, I'll reach out to Meehan and try and figure out why Mr. Harris said that.

If that's the new attitude at the FAA, this month's AAAC meeting in DC will be worth watching online.

Mr. Harris wasn't the person who answered. Bill Abbott answered my question. Keep us posted if you find out anything. Thanks!

 

[Vic Moss]

Mr. Harris wasn't the person who answered. Bill Abbott answered my question. Keep us posted if you find out anything. Thanks!

Thanks. I switched up the names in response. I'll post what I hear from Meehan or Morris.

 

[Crow Horse]

Any news regarding this?

 

[Vic Moss]

Any news regarding this?

Thanks for the reminder.

Here is what one of my contacts said:

"Hey all,
Chiming in at the last minute. It seems everyone is correct, but believe the comment “would play no role” could have been stated better. As John pointed out, the FAA would certainly assist any agency which needs our assistance in an investigation. A better answer would be: “The shooting down of drones (aircraft) falls within the jurisdiction of the DOJ and the FAA would provide any support needed to assist them with their investigation.”"

Sorry, I've been dealing with other issues with drones being shot down and forgot to update everyone. Kevin sent that reply to me on June 27th. I just spaced out posting it here.

 

[Vic Moss]

Any news regarding this?

And thanks again for bringing this to our attention. Sometimes folks try to be too succinct and the correct message can get lost.

 

[sar104]

Thanks for the reminder.

Here is what one of my contacts said:

"Hey all,
Chiming in at the last minute. It seems everyone is correct, but believe the comment “would play no role” could have been stated better. As John pointed out, the FAA would certainly assist any agency which needs our assistance in an investigation. A better answer would be: “The shooting down of drones (aircraft) falls within the jurisdiction of the DOJ and the FAA would provide any support needed to assist them with their investigation.”"

Sorry, I've been dealing with other issues with drones being shot down and forgot to update everyone. Kevin sent that reply to me on June 27th. I just spaced out posting it here.

I think the more important aspect of the question relates to the implication that it would fall to the enforcement of state or local laws rather than federal law - that's a bigger deal than the precise role played by the FAA in the investigation.

 

[Vic Moss]

I think the more important aspect of the question relates to the implication that it would fall to the enforcement of state or local laws rather than federal law - that's a bigger deal than the precise role played by the FAA in the investigation.

We're working on getting this enforced at the federal (DOJ & FBI) level. I'll be reaching back out to Merkle and others next week to get this moving forward. I'm hoping to establish a single source contact point (phone and email) where people can report these things, whether victims or LEOs.

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone Tuesday with a Burke County (NC) Sheriff Lt who is investigating the drone shooting there earlier this week. He called 5 different FAA numbers that morning before he called me, and none had called him back yet. He was more than frustrated.

So it's not just drone pilots and operators who are frustrated by the lack of enforcement and difficulty of reporting. It's cops too.

 

[sar104]

We're working on getting this enforced at the federal (DOJ & FBI) level. I'll be reaching back out to Merkle and others next week to get this moving forward. I'm hoping to establish a single source contact point (phone and email) where people can report these things, whether victims or LEOs.

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone Tuesday with a Burke County (NC) Sheriff Lt who is investigating the drone shooting there earlier this week. He called 5 different FAA numbers that morning before he called me, and none had called him back yet. He was more than frustrated.

So it's not just drone pilots and operators who are frustrated by the lack of enforcement and difficulty of reporting. It's cops too.

Perhaps the roles do need to be clarified better. 18 USC 32 clearly defines this as a federal offense, but the FAA is not LE and would not be the enforcing agency.

 

[Vic Moss]

Perhaps the roles do need to be clarified better. 18 USC 32 clearly defines this as a federal offense, but the FAA is not LE and would not be the enforcing agency.

Correct. The FAA is an "education and safety" agency, as per their charter. DOJ and/or DOTOIG are the ones who make the ultimate decision on whether or not 18 USC 32 comes into play. And to date, that decision has always been "no". The only person brought up on charges under 18 USC 32 so far is the guy who shot the Sheriff's drone down in Florida. And that was only because a Federal Grand Jury indicted him under that statute.

The roles are clarified, but the general public and local PD aren't really told who does what. In the past, local PD never got involved in aviation violations. Now they have to. And it's a slow learning curve from the top and the bottom. We're trying to fix that. It's a tough row to hoe.

 

[sar104]

The roles are clarified, but the general public and local PD aren't really told who does what.

That was what I meant - they need to be clarified to local LE so that they don't waste their time trying to get the FAA to take action, as in the case that you mentioned above.

 

[Vic Moss]

That was what I meant - they need to be clarified to local LE so that they don't waste their time trying to get the FAA to take action, as in the case that you mentioned above.

Exactly. It's on the "to do" list. Very near the top.

 

[mavic3usa]

Perhaps we can find some answers in this case. It's not a perfect case because the shooter is a prohibited person which certainly impacts the sentencing but since it's a federal case, I think it is important to point out we still don't have any significant legal action at the state or local level as far as I know. Certainly the fact that a law enforcement drone is the target make a big difference here since we all know drones flown by ordinary citizens don't have similar standing especially when it comes to "importance" and "purpose" and other issues related to the investigatory process related to pursuing this case. For example, it's vital that a clear message must be sent if you shoot down a police drone.

Florida man who shot down sheriff’s drone gets 4 years in prison

A Florida man who shot down a high-end DJI drone belonging to a Sheriff’s Office has been sentenced to four years in federal prison.

dronedj.com

 

[MS Coast]

Perhaps we can find some answers in this case. It's not a perfect case because the shooter is a prohibited person which certainly impacts the sentencing but since it's a federal case, I think it is important to point out we still don't have any significant legal action at the state or local level as far as I know. Certainly the fact that a law enforcement drone is the target make a big difference here since we all know drones flown by ordinary citizens don't have similar standing especially when it comes to "importance" and "purpose" and other issues related to the investigatory process related to pursuing this case. For example, it's vital that a clear message must be sent if you shoot down a police drone.

Florida man who shot down sheriff’s drone gets 4 years in prison

A Florida man who shot down a high-end DJI drone belonging to a Sheriff’s Office has been sentenced to four years in federal prison.

dronedj.com

This isn't directly related to drones.

From the United States Attorney's Office for the Middle District of Florida"

"Senior United States United States District Judge Gregory A. Presnell has sentenced Wendell Doyle Goney (52, Mount Dora) to four years in federal prison for possessing a firearm as a convicted felon."

Multi-Convicted Felon Sentenced To Four Years In Federal Prison After Shooting Down Law Enforcement Drone

Ocala, Florida – Senior United States United States District Judge Gregory A. Presnell has sentenced Wendell Doyle Goney (52, Mount Dora) to four years in federal prison for possessing a firearm as a convicted felon. Goney entered a guilty plea on October 5, 2023.

www.justice.gov