Finding it difficult to legally fly my drone

[Royston James]

I sympathise Infotraker

I live in the lake district UK, most of this is National Park but some is National Trust.
It is OK to fly in the National Park but the National Trust have a blanket ban over any land they own.
I have not encountered any signs stating no drones on any National Trust property but after a member of the public told me I couldn't fly in that area I made enquiries.
The National Trust gave the following reasons for the ban with no exceptions, Drones could cause injury to staff or the public and damage property.
I can understand the concern in some places like the grounds of a stately home but not in areas that are basically an open field.

Insurance would cover that. I have the same issue with United utilities they say you can’t fly over water catchment land CAA say I can. I have insurance btw

 

[Randori]

Saw a few of those signs on my recent trip to Iceland. They were usually posted in the main busy tourist attractions, where common sense should prevail.....not so much these days!!!!! The drone rules are pretty much the same there as in Canada, no flying in national parks......however I did break that rule a couple times while on back roads (F roads) and no one around for miles. Got some nice vids, now im at home trying to figure out a way to piece the vids and pics together without a computer. Getting frustrated trying iMovie on my iPhone. May have to go get that $2K laptop!!

Same story with us: Just got back from 2 weeks in Iceland doing the Ring Road via camper van. Putting footage together now in Final Cut. Saw a few "no drones" signs in the more heavily visited locations (e.g. those attractions that can be reached via day trip bus from Reykjavik and easily viewed by waddling tourists) but other than that it seemed fairly wide open. I have to imagine these signs would not exist had previous pilots been a little more sensible. I wish I'd had my telephoto lens for one example where the trail head leading to the waterfall had a no drone sign posted and yet you could see a Phantom 4 soaking in the river at the bottom of a rather deep and inaccessible ravine. Some pilot must have flown too close to a cliff wall or misjudged the wind that blows through the canyon. In any case, some Icelandic volunteer will eventually have to rappel down to retrieve the chunk of white plastic and its corroding battery from an otherwise pristine location.

 

[Colberado]

Wyoming/CO resident here. You just went to the wrong places friend. Honestly-if you just go where everyone else does not go, or you are willing to hike a beaten path/drive poorly maintained roads, you can fly in some of the most beautiful scenic terrains in this part of the U.S. totally legal. Tetons/Yellowstone is like the New York City of the great outdoors in that area.

 

[Shon]

We just got a back from a 3 week rv trip to the Tetons, Yellowstone, two lava bed parks, grand cooly dam and burney falls in calif. It also rained a lot of the days. Did not get hardly any good video because of no drone fly zones. A prominent drone sign was posted at the falls.View attachment 82222

So...just to clarify, the sign was at Burney Falls in Northern CA? Shame, as that is a site that was on my "To-do" list. it is a state park, Shame that they all seem to be banning them. Are you sure they weren't just banning drone flights over the ranger's residence as a "No Drone Zone"?

 

[Shon]

Wyoming/CO resident here. You just went to the wrong places friend. Honestly-if you just go where everyone else does not go, or you are willing to hike a beaten path/drive poorly maintained roads, you can fly in some of the most beautiful scenic terrains in this part of the U.S. totally legal. Tetons/Yellowstone is like the New York City of the great outdoors in that area.

Messa Falls North of Rexburg ID is pretty amazing. It is not too far outside West Yellowstone.

 

[Brian_MavicPro]

I've been flying drones since 2012 and have owned each Phantom version since FC40. Aerial video and photography is a passion and I am serious about this hobby. It's obvious that safety is the overwhelming cause of all our nightmares. A few bad apples always ruin it for the rest of us...forever. Take 9/11 = Patriot Act, Shoe Bomber = take your clothes off, flying near aircraft = total panic and fear of drones.

Each time the government gets a request to "do something", it sacrifices your freedom for safety. It took them quite a while to construct a set of rules and impose laws to deter hobbyist. Once the "consumer" funded enough research (2015 - 2018), the corporations saw great opportunities to use these commercially and did not want to compete for safe airspace with the hobbyist. The ensuing legislation and imposed laws were enacted to catre/favor the commercial user and deter the common hobbyist. I can honestly say, it worked.

Take the advertisement blitz DJI produced in the earlier years. Flying over ice and volcano, ocean, sky, claiming distance and GPS sensor. Does 5 miles and 45mph seem like an appropriate specification for VLOS? Face it, VLOS is not even a possibility unless you have a "crew" with you. Sounds rather commercial, doesn't it?

The best advice I can offer is this. DO NOT become the idiot flying near aircraft, airports, annoying people. The only way I have avoided any trouble over the past 5-years is to simply AVOID HUMANS AT ALL TIMES.

Pre-plan your flight and survey your area using the tools/applications available to stay out of restricted areas. Keep a safe altitude that avoids aircraft and avoids crashing into trees, mountains and telephone poles. VLOS is not possible if you're enjoying this hobby alone. It's a joke. The moment you look at your screen, you've lost VLOS. If VLOS was intended your drone would cost $99 and fall out of the sky once it reached 30 feet away because your receiver lost signal. Bah!

The purpose of the drone is to capture something you can't get to via iPhone or DLSR. PLEASE! Spare me the non-sensical hypocrisy. Try to capture a 360 video of an iceberg with your DSLR from the shore? What a joke.

The rules were put in place to keep you grounded and free up space for commercial use while giving (drone haters) a false sense of security. AVOID HUMANS, FLY AND ENJOY. Want VLOS, then remove all consumer drones for sale...DONE!

Famous last words "we've gotta do something about those..." God forbid we punish the 1-2 criminals that violate the law. Nope, we gotta turn the other 99% into criminals through legislation. Legislation put forward by commercial users with a different agenda. Let me tell you how a really feel, lol.

 

[Tee]

Yes! This is very frustrating! one thing that I was thinking about proposing is setting a specific time that drones should be allowed to fly, for example, 30 min before sunrise or before there are any crowds that get to certain areas, or later in the day when the crowds are gone, I live in the Oaklnad bay area, and the eastbay parks district will not let you fly in their parks either, so I plan on going to a board meeting to present a planned time for drone usage because as long as we are not fly over crowds I don't see a problem,

 

[Tee]

Messa Falls North of Rexburg ID is pretty amazing. It is not too far outside West Yellowstone.

Wow! that is so cool, thanks for sharing your video, but I was wondering how you were allowed to fly in a national park, I thought that was prohibited

 

[irpnetgb]

I sympathise Infotraker

I live in the lake district UK, most of this is National Park but some is National Trust.
It is OK to fly in the National Park but the National Trust have a blanket ban over any land they own.
I have not encountered any signs stating no drones on any National Trust property but after a member of the public told me I couldn't fly in that area I made enquiries.
The National Trust gave the following reasons for the ban with no exceptions, Drones could cause injury to staff or the public and damage property.
I can understand the concern in some places like the grounds of a stately home but not in areas that are basically an open field.

Always worth remembering that although that land owner may not allow take off/landing or operating on THAT land, there are other bits of land that you can use for takeoff and landing. A land owner cannot lawfully prevent you from flying over their land (with the exception of NFZ's/TFR's etc). Airspace is controlled by the CAA/FAA or other body in your country, not by land owners. However, with that said the flight must still be safe and within the lawful (CAA/FAA) requirements of UAS flights (150m away from property, no higher than 120m (400ft) AGL, not over people, roads etc etc or whatever is applicable in the country you fly).

 

[Bigbird48]

Wow! that is so cool, thanks for sharing your video, but I was wondering how you were allowed to fly in a national park, I thought that was prohibited

I don't think its a Natl Park it a Natl Forest were your legally allowed to fly

 

[awsan5]

I sympathise Infotraker

I live in the lake district UK, most of this is National Park but some is National Trust.
It is OK to fly in the National Park but the National Trust have a blanket ban over any land they own.
I have not encountered any signs stating no drones on any National Trust property but after a member of the public told me I couldn't fly in that area I made enquiries.
The National Trust gave the following reasons for the ban with no exceptions, Drones could cause injury to staff or the public and damage property.
I can understand the concern in some places like the grounds of a stately home but not in areas that are basically an open field.

They can't stop you taking off from a public footpath that crosses their land so long as you comply with the drone code

 

[Dizzy1971]

@zocalo i hope that when the new registration/training scheme comes into force that a lot of the grey areas with regards to drones are finally hard and fast and we as flyers and jo public and land owners are all singing of the same hymn sheet

In Canada we had new rules enacted in June of 2019. The new rules require pilots to be licensed and quads registered. The rules are now clear AND allow for more freedom to fly in my opinion. To me,the new rules have taken care of that “grey” area and that is a good thing from my perspective. Hard and fast rules are a good thing for the hobby in Canada and I can’t help but think that it would be the same for other jurisdictions. Hopefully you guys will have the same positive experience in your country.

 

[Thomas B]

Messa Falls North of Rexburg ID is pretty amazing. It is not too far outside West Yellowstone.

@Shon .... Very nice! Love the overhead shots toward the end

 

[Brojon]

I do have to say, it's a pretty underwhelming development here in Europe too.
I've not been a drone operator for more than 6 months, as previously always had a bad taste or an uneasy feeling of flying with them.

However I cherish photography for a very long time (20+ years) I finally took the step to take photos with the Mavic on locations I could have only dreamed of and not looked back. But as the society itself got more tight and paranoid (for instance after the refugee crisis in Europe), the feeling of doing something dangerous somehow remained. Although I made very good experience with people (whether they are from family or people on site) curious about the drone and its possibilites, one bad encounter can outlast many positives.

There are such beautiful places in the world and it's more than clear, that we have to share those together and should not annex them on our purpose alone. Common sense should aways be applied first and foremost.

However, I always do that and would certainly not behave in a bad way with a drone. Upcoming general bans and distrust are something I fear ...
I would somehow welcome a mandatory training and certification if I am then able to fly by the rules alone and not some rank growth additions, so people would accept the regime.

I consider taking my drones to Germany/Switzerland a waste of time since I couldn't fly anywhere. We stayed at a gasthause in the depths of the Black Forest. I offered the owner a video - was it ok to fly? Sure he says. Then his neighbor wanders over and says he's no comfortable with his privacy being violated and I needed to stop flying.
What a crock! I used to think only we coddled such people but now I see worldwide people getting stupid over what they think is their due with privacy.

 

[jim_rain]

I live fairly close to Burney Falls and Lava Beds. B Falls is a state park so that's a no go for drones, but Lava Beds is a national monument and I don't think there are any restrictions for drones (if there are I plead ignorance . From Burney Falls you could have driven 20 minutes East towards the town of McCloud and found 3 waterfalls on the McCloud River that are far more photogenic than Burney Falls and have no drone restrictions afaik. I think the key here is to do the research and talk to the locals before you go on vacation to find cool areas to fly and capture great footage.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

AVOID HUMANS AT ALL TIMES.

VLOS is not possible if you're enjoying this hobby alone.

Yep, best policy on where to fly.
Hard for city dwellers or those that find it hard to travel a little though.

Absolutely, cinematic video itself when solo is simply not going to work 99.9% of flights for VLOS rule.
An outdated rule when considering modern drone UAS/V use (hobby cinematic use, mapping, etc).

Don't get me wrong, VLOS is a totally understandable rule for safety of local manned aircraft, but looking at a device screen gives you maybe 5% awareness of nearby visual hazards, only what's important (framing video / photos and watching out for obstacles in front when flying).
Even moreso when many consider assistance like strobes to give them far better ability to spot their drone at much greater distances.

There is not much that can be done about this, except to have a spotter for total adhesion to the letter of VLOS requirements.

Personally, I have flown many times beyond VLOS, always well below 100', and always remote where there are no people, vehicles, or aircraft movement.

 

[Aikidoamigo]

Can you launch from a public road passing by their property or even from a permitted byway or bridleway passing over their property? If you have a legal right of access then landowners aren’t ‘granting permission’ are or are they?

 

[wco81]

I'm planning a trip to Thailand and they make you jump through all kinds of hoops.

They say registration is mandatory and have an online portal. I filled out most of the info, including my drone serial number.

But they want proof of drone liability insurance which must have the drone model number, serial number on the policy as well as terms which say "worldwide" coverage.

There are few or zero drone liability insurance for non-commercial pilots worldwide.

OK do I pretend ignorance of these laws and try to fly anyways?

If you go to Google Maps, you will find many drone pics in StreetView in the center of cities which are suppose to be near airports or heliports.

Unless you launch and land around a lot of people, where there are likely to also be cops, odds of you getting caught seem low.

But you want to comply with the laws as a visitor, yet some of these countries make you jump through ridiculous hoops.

 

[globetrotterdrone]

I'm planning a trip to Thailand and they make you jump through all kinds of hoops.

But they want proof of drone liability insurance which must have the drone model number, serial number on the policy as well as terms which say "worldwide" coverage.

There are few or zero drone liability insurance for non-commercial pilots worldwide.

One thing is the legal demand ... the other thing is what they can control. Tourism is a very big factor for Thailand, so if you pay respect and use common sense, I doubt you will have much of trouble if you don't expect to fly anytime or anywhere you want.

Don't get me wrong, certainly it is necessary to comply to the rules, but in some cases, especially on a trip basis, they are not accomplishable or involve quite some money.
That said, I am insured just flying recreationally, and my insurance states exactly what they want to have: SN, model, owner and it's worldwide for 750,000 SDR.

 

[dannybgoode]

Always worth remembering that although that land owner may not allow take off/landing or operating on THAT land, there are other bits of land that you can use for takeoff and landing. A land owner cannot lawfully prevent you from flying over their land (with the exception of NFZ's/TFR's etc). Airspace is controlled by the CAA/FAA or other body in your country, not by land owners. However, with that said the flight must still be safe and within the lawful (CAA/FAA) requirements of UAS flights (150m away from property, no higher than 120m (400ft) AGL, not over people, roads etc etc or whatever is applicable in the country you fly).

Debatable and will take a court case to settle I think. There are some precedent that woulf suggest landowner’s can’t prevent overflight of land but then the civil torts of trespass and nuisance suggest they may have certain remedies available to them.

Current precedent though is based on cases involving hot air balloons, hang gliders and the like. The big difference between a drone pilot overflying private land and other, manned aircraft, is that it is relatively trivial for us to avoid overflying so existing precedent for light aircraft may be moot.

I can see a rich landowner arguing that thers is a significant difference between a small unmanned surveillance craft (their words in court, not how I’d describe them) and a manned aircraft such that the small surveillance craft does indeed cause a nuisance and is trespassing (you own the air above your property to around 500-600’).

Don’t get me wrong - I fly over private property all the time but I’m asked to move onI just pack up and go. Can’t afford a civil case although I’d love to test the National Trust in court on the matter. Would cost 10’s of thousands of pounds though and if you lost then drone flying in the UK could become severely restricted very quickly.

Look what happened to Beavis when he tried to take on Parking Eye. He was convinced and so were a lot of other people that contact law was clear and parking fines on private land couldn’t be enforced. He lost badly and set a precedent for all of us!

It’s undoubtedly a mess and needs clarifying but the CAA when I emailed them would only comment on the drone code as it applies to criminal law and said they won’t and can’t comment on civil law.

For now just obey rule #1 - don’t be a knob and you’ll be fine. Personally though I wouldn’t start arguing with a land owner on legal points that are uncertain.