Flyaway on Waypoints - DJI support and offer is terrible

[7thstring]

It's kind of difficult for DJI to tell what might have happened when the signal has been lost and there's no data to look at.
Just like it's kind of difficult to take this thread seriously when there's no recorded flight data to show what might have happened.

My aim is not to analyze what happened, hence it would be pointless distracting the conversation with data that would steer everyone off-topic (more than you aren't doing yourself, gents )

This thread is to comment on the support received (the 30% thingy in the first place) and the lack of acknowledgement that Waypoints (2.0, I specify to remove any further doubt) may be buggier than expected. Have a read here for instance: https://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=183552&mobile=2

Also, nobody has commented on the fact that the app goes blank on RC disconnection and that you can't set Waypoints without disconnecting the drone (and depleting the battery).

That was also the reason why I stopped posting on this forum: full of people only interested in blaming others by pretending they know more. If you read the thread, you would also see people questioning that I was using the official app at all.

 

[7thstring]

I can only guess it was an illegal or illadvised flight and wonder what the OP is looking for in this thread

Thanks for the trust. I'm sure you can come up to better conclusions.

 

[7thstring]

As has been said- usual policy is discount off aircraft only (excluding remote and accessories).

That hasn't been specified. The offer wording was: "We truly appreciate your support for DJI. If you could not recover the product and consider to purchase another one, we can offer you a 30% off discount for Mavic 2 Zoom aircraft without the charger and remote controller."

As I haven't received a reply yet as to whether that was a 30% off the aircraft only (I would expected an amount then, as to my knowledge you can't purchase the drone only on any official retail channel), semantics would be suggesting it's 30% off the full price.

To remove any doubt, they are fully aware of the flight plan and all the circumstances, including almost 2 gbs of clips and logs recorded in the area, so to remove any doubt that it was "pilot error".

 

[WithTheBirds]

That hasn't been specified. The offer wording was: "We truly appreciate your support for DJI. If you could not recover the product and consider to purchase another one, we can offer you a 30% off discount for Mavic 2 Zoom aircraft without the charger and remote controller."

As I haven't received a reply yet as to whether that was a 30% off the aircraft only (I would expected an amount then, as to my knowledge you can't purchase the drone only on any official retail channel), semantics would be suggesting it's 30% off the full price.

To remove any doubt, they are fully aware of the flight plan and all the circumstances, including almost 2 gbs of clips and logs recorded in the area, so to remove any doubt that it was "pilot error".

Rather than rely on lexical semantics to guide your expectations you might consider how DJI seems to handle these cases- aircraft only less discount.

In the absence of log files it is as likely to be pilot error as it might have been hardware/software issue. There is no way to know with certainty either way.

 

[AnzacJack]

I dont know.
You asked for comments not to be related to your error, so i guess my comment on dji offer of a discount when they seem to be at no fault, is that the offer is generous and you have done well.
Good work

 

[7thstring]

Rather than rely on lexical semantics to guide your expectations you might consider how DJI seems to handle these cases- aircraft only less discount.

In the absence of log files it is as likely to be pilot error as it might have been hardware/software issue. There is no way to know with certainty either way.

If you want I can post logs but I think this comment by DJI suffices:

1. The aircraft was working in WayPoint mode;
2. Flight time T=02:21, Relative Height H=120.7 m, Distance to the Home Point D=1081.9 m, battery=78 %, the APP record ended when the aircraft was flying forward;

The record ended without any sign of abnormality, so we could not verify what happened afterward.

By the way, also interesting noticing that the clip on the smartphone doesn't play - that is, the file appears to be corrupted. Not even VLC (that normally digests even stones) is able to play it.

There is now a "recovery mission" going on between today and Sunday, so if it's recovered I'll post drone logs to satisfy your curiosity (apart from giving them to DJI for debugging, which seems very required in the circumstances).

 

[WithTheBirds]

If you want I can post logs but I think this comment by DJI suffices:

1. The aircraft was working in WayPoint mode;
2. Flight time T=02:21, Relative Height H=120.7 m, Distance to the Home Point D=1081.9 m, battery=78 %, the APP record ended when the aircraft was flying forward;

The record ended without any sign of abnormality, so we could not verify what happened afterward.

By the way, also interesting noticing that the clip on the smartphone doesn't play - that is, the file appears to be corrupted. Not even VLC (that normally digests even stones) is able to play it.

There is now a "recovery mission" going on between today and Sunday, so if it's recovered I'll post drone logs to satisfy your curiosity (apart from giving them to DJI for debugging, which seems very required in the circumstances).

No question- it may have been a DJI issue. Fact is there is no way to demonstrate what happened after the logging ended.

 

[7thstring]

Also worth mentioning that the flight was fully autonomous from takeoff and safe from a planning perspective (they didn't comment on it, otherwise they would have said "pilot error this, planning error that"), so literally I could have turned off the remote while the drone was climbing at 120m as set in the first waypoint (not that I ever would!).

It wouldn't have been a fully autonomous flight down to landing as I rather prefer manual landing and hand-catch in all circumstances (also as I hate the RTH beeping, so the last waypoint was few meters from the home point and it should have remained hovering there).

The only aspect that would have been different from a fully manual flight is flight speed: I normally reach destinations in sports mode, so the drone this time was slower (8m/s is apparently the max speed you can set on waypoint). But nonetheless if battery was a concern, it should have initiated RTH on its own (ah, there was NO wind at all, before someone comments on it).

 

[WithTheBirds]

Also worth mentioning that the flight was fully autonomous from takeoff and safe from a planning perspective (they didn't comment on it, otherwise they would have said "pilot error this, planning error that"), so literally I could have turned off the remote while the drone was climbing at 120m as set in the first waypoint.

It wouldn't have been a fully autonomous flight down to landing as I rather prefer manual landing and hand-catch in all circumstances (also as I hate the RTH beeping), so the last waypoint was very close to the home point.

The only aspect that would have been different from a fully manual flight is flight speed: I normally reach destinations in sports mode, so the drone this time was slower (8m/s is apparently the max speed you can set on waypoint). But nonetheless if battery was a concern, it should have initiated RTH on its own (ah, there was NO wind at all, before someone comments on it).

Why are you expecting a bashing? Let’s assume your planning was perfect and it’s a DJI issue. Without the AC to pull logs off there is no way or demonstrating that. Let’s hope you find it- good chance it might be a different scenario then but for now the discount good will gesture seems reasonable. As crappy as it seems that’s the reality.

 

[7thstring]

Why are you expecting a bashing?

Because that's the standard on forums and by experience this is far from being an exception - proof in previous comments

 

[AnzacJack]

It could have been a bird strike, or shot down, neither the fault of dji. Without data they are not going to accept liability, nor should they. A discount of any type is good will.

 

[WithTheBirds]

It could have been a bird strike, or shot down, neither the fault of dji. Without data they are not going to accept liability, nor should they. A discount of any type is good will.

I am amazed by DJI replacing AC based on logs only and offering discounts. Many of us (I’m guessing your well and truly in this mix) have built and flown RC models long before GPS, flight controllers and log files. Nobody expected any help from a component manufacturer following a crash no matter what the circumstances. We are spoilt now. And the basic stuff was expensive in comparison.

 

[7thstring]

It could have been a bird strike, or shot down, neither the fault of dji.

If it was a bird strike I would have found it. And please assume that weapons were not involved. Don't know about Australia and US but in Europe it would be illegal carrying weapons, let alone using them

 

[7thstring]

A discount of any type is good will.

A 30% on the retail price (glad it isn't the case if you guys are right) would be a bait for people lacking basic economic / finance competence, certainly not "good will".

 

[AnzacJack]

Im sure you are right, but no evidence is no evidence

 

[7thstring]

I am amazed by DJI replacing AC based on logs only and offering discounts. Many of us (I’m guessing your well and truly in this mix) have built and flown RC models long before GPS, flight controllers and log files. Nobody expected any help from a component manufacturer following a crash no matter what the circumstances. We are spoilt now. And the basic stuff was expensive in comparison.

I'm amazed by this comment. On your DIY drone you were responsible for all of it, including the software. DJI drones are packed with intelligent flight modes, so DJI should be responsible for their malfunction (and that's what this topic and the other thread on DJI's forum is about - Waypoints malfunction).

Gents, I would understand this negative attitude if I crashed my drone on manual flight (and in 200+ flights the worst I did was some little "tree gardening" with no consequence while testing tracking mode while hiking), I always fly very scrupulously.

 

[WithTheBirds]

I'm amazed by this comment. On your DIY drone you were responsible for all of it, including the software. DJI drones are packed with intelligent flight modes, so DJI should be responsible for their malfunction (and that's what this topic and the other thread on DJI's forum is about - Waypoints malfunction).

Gents, I would understand this negative attitude if I crashed my drone on manual flight (and in 200+ flights the worst I did was some little "tree gardening" with no consequence while testing tracking mode while hiking), I always fly very scrupulously.

What evidence (assuming recovery efforts prove unsuccessful) other than assumption might you present that would satisfactorily evidence what happened? In these circumstances as they are seem DJI isn’t obliged to do anything for you.

Among the assumed risks that might be reasonably foreseeable- I will say should have been obvious for this waypoint mission- are that in the event signal is lost and the AC doesn’t come back it will be hard to know what happened. People have different views obviously however my own are that LCMC autonomous flights are at the higher end of assumed risk.

 

[7thstring]

What evidence (assuming recovery efforts prove unsuccessful) other than assumption might you present that would satisfactorily evidence what happened? In these circumstances as they are seem DJI isn’t obliged to do anything for you.

Among the assumed risks that might be reasonably foreseeable- I will say should have been obvious for this waypoint mission- are that in the event signal is lost and the AC doesn’t come back it will be hard to know what happened. People have different views obviously however my own are that LCMC autonomous flights are at the higher end of assumed risk.

Fine. What about the app losing all its contents after the RC disconnection? Is that a behavior we should accept, as customers? Let alone being forced to configure the drone (and Waypoints, for the sake of this thread) with the drone connected, powered on and heating up?

 

[WithTheBirds]

Fine. What about the app losing all its contents after the RC disconnection? Is that a behavior we should accept, as customers? Let alone being forced to configure the drone (and Waypoints, for the sake of this thread) with the drone connected, powered on and heating up?

We don’t (cant) expect any telemetry to be recorded by the app without a reliable downlink. As to setup time I’m not sure what the relevance might be.

Put yourself in DJI’s shoes for a moment. Consider there may be some less honest than I presume you and most to be people who may claim the drone was lost in similar circumstances when it did indeed complete the mission or RTH. They (DJI) are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Going back to your original question specifically- yes I think DJi’s offer is reasonable. I also hope you find your crashed drone.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

The lack of evidence is grossly exaggerated. DJI can see the flight plan from the data recorded by the app before the disconnection. If the flight plan was unreasonable/risky, that is something. If the flight plan was within what one might reasonably expect the AC to perform and yet the AC failed to do what is reasonably expected of it, that is a problem. They (DJI) have enough data to reach this simple conclusion. The next step then is to find out why the AC did not meet what was expected of it. Here, we have (from what the OP has shared) reason to believe that the pilot did not cancel or interfere with the mission once it was set in motion. What does that leave; some sort of accident (a mid air collision with an external object for instance), a power failure (unlikely given the description of the mission and the battery state - again taking the OP's word for these - but these are things DJI can easily cross check with the data they have from the app and usage history of the battery if they want to), or a failure of the AC and the software to do what can reasonably be expected of them - which raises a warranty claim.

I admit we don't know enough as the OP has chosen not to share the flight log for the flight in question. But that is their right and shouldn't be taken as reason enough to question their sincerity. I am honestly amazed by how far some posters in this thread are willing to go to to defend DJI. No, a 30% discount and a mere "we are so sorry" is not gracious and certainly not good enough if the device and system they sell fails to meet what is expected of it. And missing data (edit: I mean the data from the AC's flight recorder here) should not be used to absolve DJI of any obligations when there is no evidence of wrong doing by the pilot. Missing data could equally absolve the pilot of any fault.