Flyaway on Waypoints - DJI support and offer is terrible

[WithTheBirds]

The lack of evidence is grossly exaggerated. DJI can see the flight plan from the data recorded by the app before the disconnection. If the flight plan was unreasonable/risky, that is something. If the flight plan was within what one might reasonably expect the AC to perform and yet the AC failed to do what is reasonably expected of it, that is a problem. They (DJI) have enough data to reach this simple conclusion. The next step then is to find out why the AC did not meet what was expected of it. Here, we have (from what the OP has shared) reason to believe that the pilot did not cancel or interfere with the mission once it was set in motion. What does that leave; some sort of accident (a mid air collision with an external object for instance), a power failure (unlikely given the description of the mission and the battery state - again taking the OP's word for these - but these are things DJI can easily cross check with the data they have from the app and usage history of the battery if they want to), or a failure of the AC and the software to do what can reasonably be expected of them - which raises a warranty claim.

I admit we don't know enough as the OP has chosen not to share the flight log for the flight in question. But that is their right and shouldn't be taken as reason enough to question their sincerity. I am honestly amazed by how far some posters in this thread are willing to go to to defend DJI. No, a 30% discount and a mere "we are so sorry" is not gracious and certainly not good enough if the device and system they sell fails to meet what is expected of it. And missing data (edit: I mean the data from the AC's flight recorder here) should not be used to absolve DJI of any obligations when there is no evidence of wrong doing by the pilot. Missing data could equally absolve the pilot of any fault.

The competence that might be demonstrated in programming the flight plan and the apparent absence of any user action that may have contributed to the loss don’t get us past the fact there is no evidence of what happened after data loss. We may get to a point where the safe assumption is that a properly functioning Mavic should have completed the mission or RTH. That is the best we can hope for without the AC being recovered.

 

[Deleted member 94047]

We may get to a point where the safe assumption is that a properly functioning Mavic should have completed the mission or RTH. That is the best we can hope for without the AC being recovered.

That, right there, is all I wanted to say. Thank you!

Edit: Just to add, "We don't know what happened, therefore, it is not our fault [It is likely your fault]" is not a logical statement.

 

[WithTheBirds]

That, right there, is all I wanted to say. Thank you!

Edit: Just to add, "We don't know what happened, therefore, it is not our fault [It is likely your fault]" is not a logical statement.

We might safely assume DJI suspects it could be their fault (or believes others might reach that conclusion)- they probably wouldn’t offer a discount on a replacement otherwise. From what I have seen them do in the past they might even cop being pushed to a 50% discount if approached correctly.

 

[7thstring]

We don’t (cant) expect any telemetry to be recorded by the app without a reliable downlink. As to setup time I’m not sure what the relevance might be.

Put yourself in DJI’s shoes for a moment. Consider there may be some less honest than I presume you and most to be people who may claim the drone was lost in similar circumstances when it did indeed complete the mission or RTH. They (DJI) are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Going back to your original question specifically- yes I think DJi’s offer is reasonable. I also hope you find your crashed drone.

Looks like you haven't read the question. "What about the app losing all its contents after the RC disconnection? Is that a behavior we should accept, as customers? Let alone being forced to configure the drone (and Waypoints, for the sake of this thread) with the drone connected, powered on and heating up? "

That's independent from the incident. That is a statement regarding flight preparation and post incident recovery. Not related (hopefully, otherwise it would be certainly software error!) to the cause of the incident itself.

 

[7thstring]

The lack of evidence is grossly exaggerated. DJI can see the flight plan from the data recorded by the app before the disconnection. If the flight plan was unreasonable/risky, that is something. If the flight plan was within what one might reasonably expect the AC to perform and yet the AC failed to do what is reasonably expected of it, that is a problem. They (DJI) have enough data to reach this simple conclusion. The next step then is to find out why the AC did not meet what was expected of it. Here, we have (from what the OP has shared) reason to believe that the pilot did not cancel or interfere with the mission once it was set in motion. What does that leave; some sort of accident (a mid air collision with an external object for instance), a power failure (unlikely given the description of the mission and the battery state - again taking the OP's word for these - but these are things DJI can easily cross check with the data they have from the app and usage history of the battery if they want to), or a failure of the AC and the software to do what can reasonably be expected of them - which raises a warranty claim.

I admit we don't know enough as the OP has chosen not to share the flight log for the flight in question. But that is their right and shouldn't be taken as reason enough to question their sincerity. I am honestly amazed by how far some posters in this thread are willing to go to to defend DJI. No, a 30% discount and a mere "we are so sorry" is not gracious and certainly not good enough if the device and system they sell fails to meet what is expected of it. And missing data (edit: I mean the data from the AC's flight recorder here) should not be used to absolve DJI of any obligations when there is no evidence of wrong doing by the pilot. Missing data could equally absolve the pilot of any fault.

Thanks Doppler, I'm amazed too by the responses. It could happen to anyone. And by the way the post starts with "keep clear from waypoint", suggesting "don't trust automation" as it might be too buggy (as I scarily found out after the incident by browsing DJI's forum).

 

[sar104]

The lack of evidence is grossly exaggerated. DJI can see the flight plan from the data recorded by the app before the disconnection. If the flight plan was unreasonable/risky, that is something. If the flight plan was within what one might reasonably expect the AC to perform and yet the AC failed to do what is reasonably expected of it, that is a problem. They (DJI) have enough data to reach this simple conclusion. The next step then is to find out why the AC did not meet what was expected of it. Here, we have (from what the OP has shared) reason to believe that the pilot did not cancel or interfere with the mission once it was set in motion. What does that leave; some sort of accident (a mid air collision with an external object for instance), a power failure (unlikely given the description of the mission and the battery state - again taking the OP's word for these - but these are things DJI can easily cross check with the data they have from the app and usage history of the battery if they want to), or a failure of the AC and the software to do what can reasonably be expected of them - which raises a warranty claim.

I admit we don't know enough as the OP has chosen not to share the flight log for the flight in question. But that is their right and shouldn't be taken as reason enough to question their sincerity. I am honestly amazed by how far some posters in this thread are willing to go to to defend DJI. No, a 30% discount and a mere "we are so sorry" is not gracious and certainly not good enough if the device and system they sell fails to meet what is expected of it. And missing data (edit: I mean the data from the AC's flight recorder here) should not be used to absolve DJI of any obligations when there is no evidence of wrong doing by the pilot. Missing data could equally absolve the pilot of any fault.

In all the cases reported here of automated flights that have not returned, I've seen no cases where DJI seem to have assessed the flight plan itself for errors - they just review the available telemetry. And in just about every such case that I've ended up reviewing, the pilot has insisted that the flight plan was perfect and not the cause of the failure to return. For context, I'd guess that in a good 75% of those cases, the flight plan turned out to be flawed, and was the cause of the problem. The other 25% included a mixture of situations either with no evidence of the cause or with precursor indications of aircraft problems.

As for the response from DJI - it is their standard policy for lost aircraft if the cause cannot be determined. 30% discount. That offer has been made even in the many cases where the automated flight plan was the problem - i.e. it was pilot error.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Looks like you haven't read the question. "What about the app losing all its contents after the RC disconnection? Is that a behavior we should accept, as customers? Let alone being forced to configure the drone (and Waypoints, for the sake of this thread) with the drone connected, powered on and heating up? "

That's independent from the incident. That is a statement regarding flight preparation and post incident recovery. Not related (hopefully, otherwise it would be certainly software error!) to the cause of the incident itself.

I read it.

 

[7thstring]

We might safely assume DJI suspects it could be their fault (or believes others might reach that conclusion)- they probably wouldn’t offer a discount on a replacement otherwise. From what I have seen them do in the past they might even cop being pushed to a 50% discount if approached correctly.

Good point. What could be the "correct approach"? Besides being kind, super-supportive, having given tons of logs and clips of all kinds, having suggested fixes and UX improvements, etc.

 

[Justin Playfair]

If it was a bird strike I would have found it. And please assume that weapons were not involved. Don't know about Australia and US but in Europe it would be illegal carrying weapons, let alone using them

Isn't it also required in Europe that you flight within line of sight? And yet, you obviously didn't, since you aren't sure yourself what happened to your drone. DJI also tells you to do this in the manual, and they could choose to refuse you a warranty refund on that basis alone even if you had evidence of a malfunction, which you don't.

 

[sar104]

Good point. What could be the "correct approach"? Besides being kind, super-supportive, having given tons of logs and clips of all kinds, having suggested fixes and UX improvements, etc.

Have you reviewed the DAT file to see if there are any prior indications of problems during the flight? Those data have been instrumental in persuading DJI to change their position in some cases, especially since they don't always do a full assessment of that log. And am I right in understanding that you no longer have access to the actual mission plan - that's what you meant by the comment that the app lost all the contents?

 

[7thstring]

Isn't it also required in Europe that you flight within line of sight? And yet, you obviously didn't, since you aren't sure yourself what happened to your drone. DJI also tells you to do this in the manual, and they could choose to refuse you a warranty refund on that basis alone even if you had evidence of a malfunction, which you don't.

Do you always fly VLOS as opposed to LOS?

 

[sar104]

Isn't it also required in Europe that you flight within line of sight? And yet, you obviously didn't, since you aren't sure yourself what happened to your drone. DJI also tells you to do this in the manual, and they could choose to refuse you a warranty refund on that basis alone even if you had evidence of a malfunction, which you don't.

I'm not aware of DJI ever using BVLOS as a reason to deny warranty support.

 

[Justin Playfair]

That, right there, is all I wanted to say. Thank you!

Edit: Just to add, "We don't know what happened, therefore, it is not our fault [It is likely your fault]" is not a logical statement.

If you buy a new car, wreck it or have it stolen, then return to the dealership and tell them that they were to blame for the fact that it was wrecked or stolen, do you suppose they'd provide a free replacement without any evidence to support your claim? Because that seems to be what you're suggesting DJI should do in this case.

 

[7thstring]

Have you reviewed the DAT file to see if there are any prior indications of problems during the flight? Those data have been instrumental in persuading DJI to change their position in some cases, especially since they don't always do a full assessment of that log. And am I right in understanding that you no longer have access to the actual mission plan - that's what you meant by the comment that the app lost all the contents?

Thanks for the competent reply sar104 (as always)

Unfortunately I don't have the flight plan any longer. If I had known that the app would have gone blank after disconnection I would have saved the plan AND taken a screenshot.

 

[Justin Playfair]

Do you always fly VLOS as opposed to LOS?

Do you always answer a question with a question?

 

[Justin Playfair]

I'm not aware of DJI ever using BVLOS as a reason to deny warranty support.

Can you provide an example of a case where they DID provide a free replacement without supporting log information when the user was flying BVLOS? I've certainly seen them deny warranty replacements when the user didn't follow the instructions in the manual; haven't you?

 

[Justin Playfair]

Thanks for the competent reply sar104 (as always)

Unfortunately I don't have the flight plan any longer. If I had known that the app would have gone blank after disconnection I would have saved the plan AND taken a screenshot.

How convenient.

 

[sar104]

Can you provide an example of a case where they DID provide a free replacement without supporting log information when the user was flying BVLOS?

I was only addressing the BVLOS as a disqualifying condition part of your comment. If you add the condition of no supporting log data then it is rare and inconsistent with their policy. Although strangely one such case was just reported on PP (unless I missed something in the log):

Can Anyone Tell Me Where my P3P Most Likely Auto Landed?

Hi, I was wondering if any of you who are good at analyzing data might be able to tell me roughly where my Phantom 3 Pro landed last week. After 41 mostly uneventful flights, I made a horrible mistake, which I've since learned never to repeat...hindsight is 20-20. At any rate, I was in Angeles...

phantompilots.com

 

[sar104]

How convenient.

That doesn't rule out it being true though, so your insinuation doesn't contribute anything useful to the discussion.

 

[WithTheBirds]

Can you provide an example of a case where they DID provide a free replacement without supporting log information when the user was flying BVLOS? I've certainly seen them deny warranty replacements when the user didn't follow the instructions in the manual; haven't you?

Can you provide an example of a case where they DID provide a free replacement without supporting log information when the user was flying BVLOS?

You won’t have difficulty finding instances where warranty was honoured in likely beyond VLOS conditions.

You added the no log qualification- nice straw man tactics there.

The OP was seemingly trying to avoid your type of contributions.