Flying further than LOS

tcope · Oct 11, 2018

Tesadorn said:
The interpretation of "VLOS" is going to get interesting...

We already know the details. The FAA has provided them. They are very clear.

Tesadorn · Oct 11, 2018

tcope said:
We already know the details. The FAA has provided them. They are very clear.

Are they?
"The aircraft is flown within the visual line of sight of the person operating the aircraft or a visual observer co-located and in direct communication with the operator. "

This statement could be interpreted as always maintaining visual line of sight as it does NOT say anything about "mostly" or when I am done looking at my screen... Hmmm

tcope · Oct 11, 2018

Tesadorn said:
Are they?

Yes. From this thread:

Flying further than LOS

Wilbur&Garth · Oct 11, 2018

Photo Booth said:
That's like saying that there should be numerous accidents with commercial passenger aircraft before any laws or regulations are considered to improve safety.

If the pilot can't SEE the drone s/he is flying it is inherently less safe. Will there be an accident every time? Of course not. But nobody can deny that it is less safe if the pilot can't see the drone. The camera only points in one direction at any given moment and that gives the pilot a VERY limited view of what is going on around, above and below the drone.

I agree, technology will eventually improve safety. But the people that fly their drones near emergency situations (such as brush fires or rescues) or fly their drones near objects they shouldn't be near in the first place (such as hot air balloons) have already screwed it up for those that take safety seriously. Flying a drone is getting more regulated thanks, in great part, to every moron that has already broken the rules, the law, or demonstrated an utter lack of common sense. And I seriously doubt that more/improved technology will reverse lawmakers' thinking on this for a long time to come.

Mark

I definitely agree with this, but I think the keyword is "less". Now this is just me playing devil's advocate, but I think the general argument isn't whether or not flying BLOS is unsafe, but how unsafe. There are hundreds of things we do in everyday life that could be made safer, but we make judgment calls on whether or not it's worth it. In the lake example above: yes, it's slightly less safe if you can't see the drone, but not by much. If you're staying below 400', can see clearly in all directions, not flying over people (or anything for that matter), the danger seems pretty minimal. I'm a stickler for staying under 400', keeping distance from airports, not flying over crowds, etc. But there are some situations when I think it's perfectly fine to fly BLOS. Is it still illegal? Yes. Am I willing to pay the price on the small off chance something were to go wrong? Of course.

Tesadorn · Oct 11, 2018

tcope said:
Yes. From this thread:

Flying further than LOS

"the aircraft must be visible at all times to the operator" hmmm

Tesadorn · Oct 11, 2018

Wilbur&Garth said:
I definitely agree with this, but I think the keyword is "less". Now this is just me playing devil's advocate, but I think the general argument isn't whether or not flying BLOS is unsafe, but how unsafe. There are hundreds of things we do in everyday life that could be made safer, but we make judgment calls on whether or not it's worth it. In the lake example above: yes, it's slightly less safe if you can't see the drone, but not by much. If you're staying below 400', can see clearly in all directions, not flying over people (or anything for that matter), the danger seems pretty minimal. I'm a stickler for staying under 400', keeping distance from airports, not flying over crowds, etc. But there are some situations when I think it's perfectly fine to fly BLOS. Is it still illegal? Yes. Am I willing to pay the price on the small off chance something were to go wrong? Of course.

Who has more control?
1. Person flying VLOS @ 350ft up and 500 ft away (its a dot at best @ this point)
2. Person flying BVOS with screen/goggles. (Orentation is known and home direction should be easy to tell)

Tesadorn · Oct 11, 2018

Tesadorn said:
Who has more control?
1. Person flying VLOS @ 350ft up and 500 ft away (its a dot at best @ this point)
2. Person flying BVOS with screen/goggles. (Orentation is known and home direction should be easy to tell)

I will vote #2 EVERYTIME..

Slim.slamma · Oct 11, 2018

Tesadorn · Oct 11, 2018

Slim.slamma said:
View attachment 49748

Perfect VLOS! (IF you are an actual Eagle....)

Nice flight BTW!

InvisibleName · Oct 11, 2018

This discussion has got got tedious now, I’m outa here!

ac0j · Oct 12, 2018

Slim.slamma said:
View attachment 49609
The inspire can easily be seen @3.5

This is a MAVIC forum. I have never seen an inspire in person, but I still say cant be seen with the naked eye at 3.5 miles.
Still waiting for the video of a 3+ mile flight with NO visual aids. No display, no remote display. All the way out and back in a zig zag pattern. Until you prove you can do that, there is no point posting all your illegal flight records.

ac0j · Oct 12, 2018

Tesadorn said:
I will vote #2 EVERYTIME..

What if an aircraft approaches you from the side or behind while your are goggle flying?
Heck, you couldn't even see a PERSON walking up to YOU from your side while goggled.

Asgard · Dec 10, 2018

Rockisy said:
Everybody flies it out beyond VLOS at some point. Most people do it every flight..

Nope

Asgard · Dec 10, 2018

"The inspire can easily be seen @3.5"

Nope

abtocmeptb · Dec 10, 2018

Asgard said:
Nope

Yeah right....

theDRONEranger · Dec 10, 2018

ac0j said:
What if an aircraft approaches you from the side or behind while your are goggle flying?
Heck, you couldn't even see a PERSON walking up to YOU from your side while goggled.

Using the FPV while acting as Part 107 pilot REQUIRES a VO per FAA!

Donnie Frank · Dec 10, 2018

ac0j said:
What if an aircraft approaches you from the side or behind while your are goggle flying?
Heck, you couldn't even see a PERSON walking up to YOU from your side while goggled.

You CAN, however, see / hear the plane / helicopter, yes???? And you DO generally know which direction your bird is in, yes? And you CAN tell when full scale aviation is above 400' (which is 99% of the time), yes? If you believe a plane and/or helicopter to be below 400' AGL, simply drop to 100' AGL, and all is safe.

D

theDRONEranger · Dec 10, 2018

Flying a drone, it is practically impossible to fully maintain full VLOS. When one looks down at the remote to make whatever minor adjustment, then back up, one would unquestioningly not be able to immediately locate the drone. Looking at the RC, one can see the area/terrain but when relocating the bird in the air you must associate the terrain from the RC to physical not picture. Fortunately, the time lapse is not great, unless you are in zoom mode, wearing FPVs, or the bird is at the extent of your 3 mile range. This is definitely an example of when a VO is handy.) Sometimes I find I must go hand off from the sticks because (here in the mountains, at least) it does become quite easy to lose sight after watching the RC too much, as the drone is small and the mountains are huge. Sometimes as added safety measure, I run with anti-collision strobes in daytime as well. Helps with maintaining VLOS.

My 2cents worth.

ScubaBob · Dec 10, 2018

theDRONEranger said:
Flying a drone, it is practically impossible to fully maintain full VLOS. When one looks down at the remote to make whatever minor adjustment, then back up, one would unquestioningly not be able to immediately locate the drone. Looking at the RC, one can see the area/terrain but when relocating the bird in the air you must associate the terrain from the RC to physical not picture. Fortunately, the time lapse is not great, unless you are in zoom mode, wearing FPVs, or the bird is at the extent of your 3 mile range. This is definitely an example of when a VO is handy.) Sometimes I find I must go hand off from the sticks because (here in the mountains, at least) it does become quite easy to lose sight after watching the RC too much, as the drone is small and the mountains are huge. Sometimes as added safety measure, I run with anti-collision strobes in daytime as well. Helps with maintaining VLOS.

My 2cents worth.

100% VLOS is impossible to maintain just as "always look at the road when you are driving" is impossible to maintain. When driving you must look at the dashboard and mirrors every now and then but you are supposed to do so AFTER checking the road ahead to make sure that the coast is clear. Likewise, while flying a drone you need to, every now and then, look at the RC to determine height, distance, battery level, satellite strength and the picture / video you want to capture. The intent of the VLOS is not to say that you have to be looking at the drone 100% of the time. I believe that the intent is that you should not send your drone further away or higher than you can see the drone. You should not send your drone over a hill or behind a building where you cannot see the drone. Personally, I think people who fly beyond VLOS are future posters to this site with titles such as "My MP went crazy and crashed" or "My Mavic lost contact with RC and never returned." As we have seen all too often, these are almost always caused by human error because they could not see what was going on with their drone. Also, as we have all read, many large birds and birds of prey seem to like hitting drones so if your drone is not within your sight then you can't see the birds either and sooner or later you will lose your drone. From my perspective, the adverse consequences of operating in a non-VLOS mentality are not worth the photo opportunity. The good side of operating in a non-VLOS mentality is that you will probably sooner or later lose your drone and then you will learn a painful lesson and that will be a plus for the whole drone community.