"Flying over people" Drone Classifications

[DaveR1977]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong...

As a 107 pilot, my understanding is that we cannot legally fly over people until our drones have been classified by the manufacturer, and we have labeled them per FAA specs.

Has DJI submitted documentation for means of compliance? I still don't know if the Air2s is Class 2 or three. Who knows how many foot-pounds of impact it generates?

It looks like the regs got ahead of our ability to comply.

Does anyone have current info on this issue?

TIA

 

[GFields]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong...

As a 107 pilot, my understanding is that we cannot legally fly over people until our drones have been classified by the manufacturer, and we have labeled them per FAA specs.

Has DJI submitted documentation for means of compliance? I still don't know if the Air2s is Class 2 or three. Who knows how many foot-pounds of impact it generates?

It looks like the regs got ahead of our ability to comply.

Does anyone have current info on this issue?

TIA

Location: USA
Please read this post written by @BigAl07

 

[DaveR1977]

Location: USA
Please read this post written by @BigAl07

Thank you for the link. It re-affirms what I am asking.

Does anyone have "current" info on classifications per those regs? We cannot comply until DJI submits and FAA approves the "Means of compliance". (And the drone is properly labeled.)

Not that I have any need to fly over people, but as I occasionally "transit" it would be nice to know what classification the Air2s falls under.

Cheers!

 

[Vic Moss]

Thank you for the link. It re-affirms what I am asking.

Does anyone have "current" info on classifications per those regs? We cannot comply until DJI submits and FAA approves the "Means of compliance". (And the drone is properly labeled.)

You can find all approved OOP DOC's here: UAS Declaration of Compliance
Current requirements for OOP Category MOC's can be found here (starting on page 70: https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2021-01-15/pdf/2020-28947.pdf

Not that I have any need to fly over people, but as I occasionally "transit" it would be nice to know what classification the Air2s falls under.

I doubt seriously the Air2S can be made OOP compliant. If DJI does anything, they'll probably work out the Mini 3 to be Category 2 compliant.

The FAA OOP requirements are way too strict for manufacturers to reasonably be able to meet. And with what the U.S. Government is trying to do to DJI, it would not surprise me at all if DJI doesn't do anything to comply with current OOP category MOCs. Wny would they?

Cheers!

 

[DaveR1977]

Thanks I had lost that link. So it still shows only one drone is currently approved for OOP.

I was just concerned that there seems to be a misconception in some threads that I have seen where folks are thinking that OOP is now legal.

I see a lot of hyper lapse videos that could be questionable. “Transition” could be a grey area and subject to interpretation. Much like VLOS.

Thanks again.

 

[Vic Moss]

Thanks I had lost that link. So it still shows only one drone is currently approved for OOP.

Yep, the AgEagle is the only one. And it's basically useless for anything except mapping, which makes sense since that's what is was designed for.

I was just concerned that there seems to be a misconception in some threads that I have seen where folks are thinking that OOP is now legal.

Lot's of ongoing confusion about OOP as well as RID. It's tough to get the correct info out to everyone. That's one of the reasons I live forums like this.

I see a lot of hyper lapse videos that could be questionable. “Transition” could be a grey area and subject to interpretation. Much like VLOS.

Yeah, but remember that they FAA considers "over" to be "directly over". One inch in either direction and you're no longer over someone. And it's very difficult to prove unless someone lands on someones head.

Thanks again.

 

[WanderLost]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong...

As a 107 pilot, my understanding is that we cannot legally fly over people until our drones have been classified by the manufacturer, and we have labeled them per FAA specs.

Has DJI submitted documentation for means of compliance? I still don't know if the Air2s is Class 2 or three. Who knows how many foot-pounds of impact it generates?

It looks like the regs got ahead of our ability to comply.

Does anyone have current info on this issue?

TIA

It's too bad your FAA doesn't seem to be ahead of the curve. In Canada here, when I registered my Air 2s with Transport Canada, I had to choose it from a pull down list that then listed how close I could fly to people based on the safety capabilities built into the drone.
I don't know who keeps that list updated with DJI specs - whether DJI sends it in, or someone at Transport Canada has the job of vetting the drones and inputting the information into the registration system.

 

[Vic Moss]

It's too bad your FAA doesn't seem to be ahead of the curve. In Canada here, when I registered my Air 2s with Transport Canada, I had to choose it from a pull down list that then listed how close I could fly to people based on the safety capabilities built into the drone.
I don't know who keeps that list updated with DJI specs - whether DJI sends it in, or someone at Transport Canada has the job of vetting the drones and inputting the information into the registration system.

Here we can fly as close as we want to people here, just not directly over. That's the difference. We have OOP regs in place, but they're too strict. Hopefully we can get that changed.

 

[WanderLost]

Here we can fly as close as we want to people here, just not directly over. That's the difference. We have OOP regs in place, but they're too strict. Hopefully we can get that changed.

Wow! Interesting. Here's what it says on my Registration certificate.

 

[1911tex]

The FAA clearly states for UAS operations: NO "SUSTAINED" FLIGHT OVER PEOPLE OR MOVING VEHICLES.

 

[WanderLost]

The FAA clearly states for UAS operations: NO "SUSTAINED" FLIGHT OVER PEOPLE OR MOVING VEHICLES.

Yeah - that seems congruent with what Transport Canada expects here as well. I think a lot of our regs came out of your FAA regs.

 

[Vic Moss]

The FAA clearly states for UAS operations: NO "SUSTAINED" FLIGHT OVER PEOPLE OR MOVING VEHICLES.

Actually we can't fly over the people in moving vehciles. We can fly over the moving vehicles themselves, as long as we don't fly over the people in them.

It's a confusing regulation.

Also, if the drone has RID and is Cat. 1, 2, or 4 compliant, it can fly "sustained flights over open-air assemblies".

But there are no Cat. 2 or 4 drones at the moment, and I'm not sure of any Cat 1 drones w/ RID.

 

[striperseeker]

The FAA clearly states for UAS operations: NO "SUSTAINED" FLIGHT OVER PEOPLE OR MOVING VEHICLES.

That's old. With a DoC, you can meet one of the categories to fly over people. Currently, no rotory blade craft is cleared. Only one fixed wing. The issue as I've been told by various FAA persons is the kinetic energy. It's nearly impossible to calculate this without knowing the speed at time of impact.

 

[striperseeker]

Actually we can't fly over the people in moving vehciles. We can fly over the moving vehicles themselves, as long as we don't fly over the people in them.

It's a confusing regulation.

Also, if the drone has RID and is Cat. 1, 2, or 4 compliant, it can fly "sustained flights over open-air assemblies".

But there are no Cat. 2 or 4 drones at the moment, and I'm not sure of any Cat 1 drones w/ RID.

You're spot on. The only UAS with a DoC for OOP is a fixed wing. I can put a blade guard and already have a DoC for RiD with my Air 2S, but it's the kinetick energy. The Virgina Tech testing method will hopefully get some crafts approved within certain configs

 

[Theoriginalgregtoo]

Yeah, but remember that they FAA considers "over" to be "directly over". One inch in either direction and you're no longer over someone. And it's very difficult to prove unless someone lands on someones head.

I'm sorry if you've answered this elsewhere, but is there any wiggle room for flights where the drone is transiting from point A to point B, and a person unexpectedly crosses underneath the path of the drone? Say for instance I'm flying without any expectation of crossing over a person, and someone steps out of house as I'm flying past overhead. I've seen conflicting information on this, and it's difficult to parse what is accurate/outdated information.

 

[Vic Moss]

I'm sorry if you've answered this elsewhere, but is there any wiggle room for flights where the drone is transiting from point A to point B, and a person unexpectedly crosses underneath the path of the drone? Say for instance I'm flying without any expectation of crossing over a person, and someone steps out of house as I'm flying past overhead. I've seen conflicting information on this, and it's difficult to parse what is accurate/outdated information.

"Over" is "over, no matter the circumstances.

You just have to ask yourself if it's safe. Technically it's your fault if someone walks or drives under your drone. However, unless it falls out of the sky and lands on someone, it's impossible to determine if you flew over individuals.

Honestly, if anyone has flown in urban environments for more than a year or two, they're lying to themselves if they say they know they've never flown over a person. I know I can't say it with 100% certainty. We all try and avoid it, and should to the best of our ability.

Just be safe.

 

[mobilehomer]

Notice the last sentence before the "Operation Over Moving Vehicles" section.

Operations Over People General Overview | Federal Aviation Administration

The Operation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People final rule is the next incremental step towards further integration of unmanned aircraft (UA) in the National Airspace System. The final rule allows routine operations over people and routine operations at night under certain circumstances...

www.faa.gov

 

[Vic Moss]

Notice the last sentence before the "Operation Over Moving Vehicles" section.

Operations Over People General Overview | Federal Aviation Administration

The Operation of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Over People final rule is the next incremental step towards further integration of unmanned aircraft (UA) in the National Airspace System. The final rule allows routine operations over people and routine operations at night under certain circumstances...

www.faa.gov

Don’t confuse FAA summary pages with actual rule language.

FAA is very basic in their summaries.

It’s about the people in the vehicles, but the vehicles themselves.

 

[mobilehomer]

Don’t confuse FAA summary pages with actual rule language.

FAA is very basic in their summaries.

It’s about the people in the vehicles, but the vehicles themselves.

Not the section, the paragraph BEFORE that section. The part about transiting over people.

 

[Vic Moss]

Not the section, the paragraph BEFORE that section. The part about transiting over people.

Ah yes, misread your post. Sorry.

As long as you have an OOP compliant drone, you can transit over people without RID. As it says. Thanks.