Flying Very Close to Airport

[sar104]

Thank you guys. Your responses have really helped. I am about to submit through LAANC now. I appreciate your help

KLYH is Class D non-continuous / Class E, and that specific location is in a 100 ft LAANC grid. So provided that you don't need higher then you can apply for LAANC authorization and then use that as documentation for a custom DJI unlock of the restricted zone.

 

[gabe_air2s]

KLYH is Class D non-continuous / Class E, and that specific location is in a 100 ft LAANC grid. So provided that you don't need higher then you can apply for LAANC authorization and then use that as documentation for a custom DJI unlock of the restricted zone.

View attachment 137655

Thank you man

 

[Vic Moss]

Hey everyone, later this week I will be doing a drone shoot for a university that is under 5 miles from an airport. I have already communicated with someone at the school who is in charge of UAV operations and I have approval to fly from the university. I have also communicated with the airport manager and have gotten a waiver to fly from him. I am also operating under part 107 of course. I know that I will need to communicate with the ATC prior to flight and possibly during the flight. But here’s my question: will I still need to apply to fly through LAANC or DroneZone? Thanks

Airport managers are not allowed to give permission for flights off airport property. Basically, you do not have permission. So the flight will be illegal if it’s in controlled airspace.

The 5 mile distance is irrelevant to your flight. That rules has not been around since 2016, and even then only applied to hobbyist.

You need to use an app like B4UFly to check airspace. If it’s LAANC, it will send you to Aloft. If it’s not LAANC, you’ll need to apply for a 107.41 Airspace Authorization (not waiver) on the FAA’s Drone Zone.

 

[DoomMeister]

Airport managers are not allowed to give permission for flights off airport property. Basically, you do not have permission. So the flight will be illegal if it’s in controlled airspace.

The 5 mile distance is irrelevant to your flight. That rules has not been around since 2016, and even then only applied to hobbyist.

You need to use an app like B4UFly to check airspace. If it’s LAANC, it will send you to Aloft. If it’s not LAANC, you’ll need to apply for a 107.41 Airspace Authorization (not waiver) on the FAA’s Drone Zone.

I don’t understand how a 107 certified pilot would not understand this after the amount of time that LAANC and the UAS Facilities Map has been in existence.

 

[Paint Rock Drones]

I don’t understand how a 107 certified pilot would not understand this after the amount of time that LAANC and the UAS Facilities Map has been in existence.

At the moment many drones are marketed and sold like consumer products.

When I was working on my private pilot's license (part 61) I spent a great deal of time with instructors, in person. We flew together. We talked about flying. I made mistakes. My instructors corrected me. I learned by following their examples. I learned how to understand the equipment I was using, and how to work in the system. I learned to think like a pilot.

It seems like many drone pilots do a quick study on-line, buy a drone in a store from someone who may never flown one (or order on-line), and then fly on their own. The technology, airspace requirements and the ATC systems may be very confusing for folks without prior experience or guidance. Especially as the rules are evolving relatively quickly.

This community may be the first time many people have a chance to interact with more experienced pilots. I think it is important that we meet everyone where they are, welcome them, and offer assistance as needed. I would hate to discourage anyone from asking questions.

 

[sar104]

At the moment many drones are marketed and sold like consumer products.

When I was working on my private pilot's license (part 61) I spent a great deal of time with instructors, in person. We flew together. We talked about flying. I made mistakes. My instructors corrected me. I learned by following their examples. I learned how to understand the equipment I was using, and how to work in the system. I learned to think like a pilot.

It seems like many drone pilots do a quick study on-line, buy a drone in a store from someone who may never flown one (or order on-line), and then fly on their own. The technology, airspace requirements and the ATC systems may be very confusing for folks without prior experience or guidance. Especially as the rules are evolving relatively quickly.

This community may be the first time many people have a chance to interact with more experienced pilots. I think it is important that we meet everyone where they are, welcome them, and offer assistance as needed. I would hate to discourage anyone from asking questions.

I agree to some extent, but the question remains - how could someone pass the Part 107 test and not understand the basic concept of controlled airspace requirements? Or even worse, still think that they were flying under the old recreational 5-mile rule, plus imagining that they need a waiver from an airport manager, which was never the case under any framework?

I agree that the Part 107 system is far from ideal, but it's not that bad.

 

[DoomMeister]

At the moment many drones are marketed and sold like consumer products.

When I was working on my private pilot's license (part 61) I spent a great deal of time with instructors, in person. We flew together. We talked about flying. I made mistakes. My instructors corrected me. I learned by following their examples. I learned how to understand the equipment I was using, and how to work in the system. I learned to think like a pilot.

It seems like many drone pilots do a quick study on-line, buy a drone in a store from someone who may never flown one (or order on-line), and then fly on their own. The technology, airspace requirements and the ATC systems may be very confusing for folks without prior experience or guidance. Especially as the rules are evolving relatively quickly.

This community may be the first time many people have a chance to interact with more experienced pilots. I think it is important that we meet everyone where they are, welcome them, and offer assistance as needed. I would hate to discourage anyone from asking questions.

Sorry if my comment came off as squelching someone from asking questions. One can assume if you are doing a job for some entity (in the USA) that you need to be 107 certified and if you are 107 certified you would be keeping up to date with the changes over the last three years.

As a recreational pilot I was thrilled when LAANC came online. No more trying to contact airport authorities for permission to fly, just submit your request on the LAANC system, get LAANC clearance, check NOTAM’s and weather, then execute the flight plan if all is well.

 

[BigAl07]

I don’t understand how a 107 certified pilot would not understand this after the amount of time that LAANC and the UAS Facilities Map has been in existence.

First off let me state I'm so glad that @gabe_air2s was intuitive enough to ask this question and not assume and go willy-nilly flying. Well done!

Second, this is NOT a slam on you directly @gabe_air2s .... this indicates and well known "issue" (aka set of cracks) with the FAA's Part 107 Training and Testing program. It literally "allows" some important/significant issues to fall through the cracks. It takes the "Human Element" of instruction and TESTING out of the equation. There are some people who are able to study/cram for exams and test very well and still not grasp/absorb/comprehend the Subject Matter. With LAANC and Airspace being such a huge component of Aviation Safety the mere fact that it didn't "stick" is concerning. Rest assured you're not the only one (there are way too many) to demonstrate how the current training/testing program is failing us.

 

[DoomMeister]

First off let me state I'm so glad that @gabe_air2s was intuitive enough to ask this question and not assume and go willy-nilly flying. Well done!

Second, this is NOT a slam on you directly @gabe_air2s .... this indicates and well known "issue" (aka set of cracks) with the FAA's Part 107 Training and Testing program. It literally "allows" some important/significant issues to fall through the cracks. It takes the "Human Element" of instruction and TESTING out of the equation. There are some people who are able to study/cram for exams and test very well and still not grasp/absorb/comprehend the Subject Matter. With LAANC and Airspace being such a huge component of Aviation Safety the mere fact that it didn't "stick" is concerning. Rest assured you're not the only one (there are way too many) to demonstrate how the current training/testing program is failing us.

Thanks for helping dig me out of a hole @BigAl07, you got the message through in a much more diplomatic manner than I did.

I understand much more of the concepts needed to pass the 107 exam due to me taking ground school back in the 1980’s. Airspace classifications, reading sectional charts, effects of weather on flight, airport traffic patterns, and decision making are all basics of both part 107 and part 61 training. While most of the information I learned back then has not changed, there are many things that have changed and staying current is an important part of maintaining a certification.

I know the FAA was supposed to change the testing for 107 certification under the 2018 FAA Recertification Act. It was to help get rid of the holes you mentioned. Has that in fact been done? I know the pandemic set several things back on the implementation schedule.

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks for helping dig me out of a hole @BigAl07, you got the message through in a much more diplomatic manner than I did.

I understand much more of the concepts needed to pass the 107 exam due to me taking ground school back in the 1980’s. Airspace classifications, reading sectional charts, effects of weather on flight, airport traffic patterns, and decision making are all basics of both part 107 and part 61 training. While most of the information I learned back then has not changed, there are many things that have changed and staying current is an important part of maintaining a certification.

I know the FAA was supposed to change the testing for 107 certification under the 2018 FAA Recertification Act. It was to help get rid of the holes you mentioned. Has that in fact been done? I know the pandemic set several things back on the implementation schedule.

My pleasure. I think I'm just long winded generally speaking LOL!

In regards to the 2018 FFAR, no, in my opinion they made it worse. I know this is going to go VERY much against the grain and rub some people wrong here.... the testing and training should be TOUGHER! While most people in this industry (and most who are wanting to get in) want it easier but that's counter-productive to Aviation Safety. Not only do we need "in person training by a human" we also need some Flight Proficiency Demonstration to show that the applicant can actually perform a basic preflight, engage the motors, take-off, make a controlled SAFE flight, land, postflight, and store the UAS securely. During this "Flight Proficiency Demonstration" the examiner can also quiz the applicant on their knowledge of the items of interest (airspace, LAANC, TFR's, NOTAMS etc).

I find it ironic that so many in our industry want our UAS to be "Officially Aircraft" part of the time (like when someone shoots at them) and then the other parts of the time just a simple toy or something (when it comes to training and regulations). One day it's going to bite us in the tailfin . . . .

 

[DoomMeister]

My pleasure. I think I'm just long winded generally speaking LOL!

In regards to the 2018 FFAR, no, in my opinion they made it worse. I know this is going to go VERY much against the grain and rub some people wrong here.... the testing and training should be TOUGHER! While most people in this industry (and most who are wanting to get in) want it easier but that's counter-productive to Aviation Safety. Not only do we need "in person training by a human" we also need some Flight Proficiency Demonstration to show that the applicant can actually perform a basic preflight, engage the motors, take-off, make a controlled SAFE flight, land, postflight, and store the UAS securely. During this "Flight Proficiency Demonstration" the examiner can also quiz the applicant on their knowledge of the items of interest (airspace, LAANC, TFR's, NOTAMS etc).

I find it ironic that so many in our industry want our UAS to be "Officially Aircraft" part of the time (like when someone shoots at them) and then the other parts of the time just a simple toy or something (when it comes to training and regulations). One day it's going to bite us in the tailfin . . . .

I thought the 107 exam was supposed to be revised to make it more difficult to just cram and pass. The word I had heard in early 2019 was that they were going to revise it so that you had to truly understand the material to be able to pass the test. I already knew from taking every practice test I could lay my hands on, that the format used for the test was weak and the question base was not diverse enough to eliminate “learning the test”. I was a course and test developer for the US Air Force back in the early 1980’s and realized the exam for 107 certification as of early 2019 needed revamping. I was just curious if any of that had actually occurred. It almost sounds like they made it easier from your response.

 

[BigAl07]

I thought the 107 exam was supposed to be revised to make it more difficult to just cram and pass. The word I had heard in early 2019 was that they were going to revise it so that you had to truly understand the material to be able to pass the test. I already knew from taking every practice test I could lay my hands on, that the format used for the test was weak and the question base was not diverse enough to eliminate “learning the test”. I was a course and test developer for the US Air Force back in the early 1980’s and realized the exam for 107 certification as of early 2019 needed revamping. I was just curious if any of that had actually occurred. It almost sounds like they made it easier from your response.

The initial Part 107 changed very little other than adding Opps Over People, Night Flight, and RID. Then moving the Recurrency Test/Training to online only made it silly easy. But they didn't ask me

 

[DoomMeister]

The initial Part 107 changed very little other than adding Opps Over People, Night Flight, and RID. Then moving the Recurrency Test/Training to online only made it silly easy. But they didn't ask me

I don’t really have an issue with recurrency training and testing being online, but the style of not being able to fail the test (like with the totally useless TRUST) is ludicrous. If you fail recurrency testing you should have to attend online classes and retest in 30 days. Your 107 should be invalid until you retest and pass.

 

[BigAl07]

I don’t really have an issue with recurrency training and testing being online, but the style of not being able to fail the test (like with the totally useless TRUST) is ludicrous. If you fail recurrency testing you should have to attend online classes and retest in 30 days. Your 107 should be invalid until you retest and pass.

I think it's just following the "Society Standard" of "No one fails... we're all winners now!"

 

[gabe_air2s]

First off let me state I'm so glad that @gabe_air2s was intuitive enough to ask this question and not assume and go willy-nilly flying. Well done!

Second, this is NOT a slam on you directly @gabe_air2s .... this indicates and well known "issue" (aka set of cracks) with the FAA's Part 107 Training and Testing program. It literally "allows" some important/significant issues to fall through the cracks. It takes the "Human Element" of instruction and TESTING out of the equation. There are some people who are able to study/cram for exams and test very well and still not grasp/absorb/comprehend the Subject Matter. With LAANC and Airspace being such a huge component of Aviation Safety the mere fact that it didn't "stick" is concerning. Rest assured you're not the only one (there are way too many) to demonstrate how the current training/testing program is failing us.

Thanks everyone for all your help. I’m going to go back and restudy all the airspace rules and regulations. I have always had a hard time learning material from reading and even watching videos. I didn’t have anyone I knew that flew drones and could help me with questions that I may have. A lot of times I think I know things I have studied, and even can memorize fairly well, but I have a hard time truly understanding the material. I thought I knew all the restrictions and rules, but once I actually started planning these drone flights, I got really confused and frustrated. It helps that I have people on MavicPilots that can help. I am 100% a hands on learner. As a have said I have a hard time learning through reading. Does anyone know of a way I can relearn part 107 airspace regulations in a way that could really help me? Just reading the material in study guide does almost nothing.

Thanks all

 

[BigAl07]

Thanks everyone for all your help. I’m going to go back and restudy all the airspace rules and regulations. I have always had a hard time learning material from reading and even watching videos. I didn’t have anyone I knew that flew drones and could help me with questions that I may have. A lot of times I think I know things I have studied, and even can memorize fairly well, but I have a hard time truly understanding the material. I thought I knew all the restrictions and rules, but once I actually started planning these drone flights, I got really confused and frustrated. It helps that I have people on MavicPilots that can help. I am 100% a hands on learner. As a have said I have a hard time learning through reading. Does anyone know of a way I can relearn part 107 airspace regulations in a way that could really help me? Just reading the material in study guide does almost nothing.

Thanks all

KUDOS to you and THANK YOU for your honest and heart felt reply. That says a lot about you and your integrity!!

I personally suggest Gold Seal UAV Ground School or The Pilot Institute for Part 107 training. Even though you've already taken (and passed, congrats) your test, it is a very good idea to take a different approach to learning the subject matter and both of those offer an excellent medium to learn, test, and IMHO excel. Both are Approved Vendors on this forum so reach out to them as I think both offer a Mavic Pilots discount.

Russ Still

mavicpilots.com

pilotinstitute

mavicpilots.com

 

[gabe_air2s]

KUDOS to you and THANK YOU for your honest and heart felt reply. That says a lot about you and your integrity!!

I personally suggest Gold Seal UAV Ground School or The Pilot Institute for Part 107 training. Even though you've already taken (and passed, congrats) your test, it is a very good idea to take a different approach to learning the subject matter and both of those offer an excellent medium to learn, test, and IMHO excel. Both are Approved Vendors on this forum so reach out to them as I think both offer a Mavic Pilots discount.

Russ Still

mavicpilots.com

pilotinstitute

mavicpilots.com

Thank you @BigAl07 ! I am going to go for the Pilot Institute one. They have a discount now. $150 lifetime access! That’s not including the discount I could get for being on MavicPilots. I’ll let you all know how it goes. Thanks man

 

[LA 2020]

Hey everyone, later this week I will be doing a drone shoot for a university that is under 5 miles from an airport. I have already communicated with someone at the school who is in charge of UAV operations and I have approval to fly from the university. I have also communicated with the airport manager and have gotten a waiver to fly from him. I am also operating under part 107 of course. I know that I will need to communicate with the ATC prior to flight and possibly during the flight. But here’s my question: will I still need to apply to fly through LAANC or DroneZone? Thanks

You will need to unlock your drone through DJI Self Unlocking - Fly Safe - DJI. Have your controller's serial number ready. If you don't do this the drone may not even take off. Works for 2 days

 

[Moozer]

In regards to the 2018 FFAR, no, in my opinion they made it worse. I know this is going to go VERY much against the grain and rub some people wrong here.... the testing and training should be TOUGHER! While most people in this industry (and most who are wanting to get in) want it easier but that's counter-productive to Aviation Safety. Not only do we need "in person training by a human" we also need some Flight Proficiency Demonstration to show that the applicant can actually perform a basic preflight, engage the motors, take-off, make a controlled SAFE flight, land, postflight, and store the UAS securely. During this "Flight Proficiency Demonstration" the examiner can also quiz the applicant on their knowledge of the items of interest (airspace, LAANC, TFR's, NOTAMS etc).

I could not agree more! This is why I have a flight test my students must pass, in addition to a 'part 107-like' test. I can't believe that someone could earn a Part 107 certificate without ever having seen a UAS in person!

 

[Taildragger]

What sort of time frame can you expect to have DJI unlock an area? Minutes like a LAANC approval or longer so we know how to plan for it. Thanks…