Got reported and a call from the FAA

[Don Testme]

Thanks for describing your experience. It sounds like things ended as they should have.

How far is "not all that close to the air ambulance? 100 yards? 1000 yards?
What was the approximate altitude of the helo when it passed over your drone 53 feet above the home point?

If a nearby manned aircraft is identifiable as an emergency response or military aircraft, I'm thinking the best policy is to put the drone on the ground and powered off as soon as possible. If not to minimize the risk of hampering operations, at least to minimize the chance of having to interact with FAA and law enforcement agencies.

Putting a drone on the ground is CRASHING IT. In a normal neighborhood with houses and trees at height up to 40 feet, the drone pilot will lose connection with the drone. The pilot will not see where the drone is landing after it's altitude hits about 30 feet. The best thing to do is fly as fast as you can to an accessible flat accessible area or a road with emergency lanes to land. Once over the emergency lane, down you're aircraft ASAP, then get in your car to go get it. Everyone in these forums seem to dismiss the fact, that once our drones , when in VLOS, lose contact after flying below 20-30 feet. We risk 3000 dollars (if flying a Mav3). You just have to pray the drone lands in the place you saw you're camera looking at 40 or 30 ft above. You just have to pray and hope it doesn't crash. THIS IS WHY I FLY STEALTH. ALL LIGHTS COVERED AND NO SIGNAL LIGHTS AND ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT. NO SEE IT, NO REPORTS OF IT. Thus, if you are watching your drone in VLOS (with a flashing light and you are the only one able to see, Any emergency air vehicles wont see it as they approach it. Make sure your drone light only faces you and turn your drone's light away from the government aircraft as it passes. I AM NOT SAYING, BREAK THE LAW. I AM SAYING, STAY STEALTHY, STAY AWAY FROM THE GOVERMENT/ MANNED AIRCRAFT, LOWER YOUR DRONE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO WITHOUT LOSING CONTACT WITH IT. Then, in the next few days, you won't be assaulted by the "freedom loving, helpful, do no harm, compassionate, unfining and unarresting" government we have created.

In my opinion this is a lot more than just about another aircraft. It was dark and the flight at one time was 3,800 feet from home; this is well beyond VLOS aircraft control in daylight. At night it would be highly unlikely to control the aircraft. Furthermore, this is a residential or business area where there are no easy landing areas, even in daytime. At nighttime there would have been little options for safe landing.
There are also details missing by the OP.
In my opinion it was an ill-advised flight from the start with no good options for emergency landing or to evaluate proximity of manned aircraft. The flight at one time even got a warning possible altitude of near 400 feet ATL.

FLY DARK. If he didn't have his drone lights on, the report to the faa would never have been submitted. This is what drone pilots are being forced to do. DON'T USE YOUR LIGHTS!! A stupid drone pilots' word will not be believed over an emergency aircraft's pilots word.

 

[wardtom084]

In the day he would have never seen me.

 

[Aerophile]

...I AM NOT SAYING, BREAK THE LAW...

Of course you are. That's exactly what you're saying: "The rules are sooooo burdensome, I won't follow them, and you shouldn't either."

And there you go:

FLY DARK. If he didn't have his drone lights on, the report to the faa would never have been submitted. This is what drone pilots are being forced to do. DON'T USE YOUR LIGHTS!!

 

[dronerdave]

THIS IS WHY I FLY STEALTH. ALL LIGHTS COVERED AND NO SIGNAL LIGHTS AND ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT. NO SEE IT, NO REPORTS OF IT. . I AM NOT SAYING, BREAK THE LAW. I AM SAYING, STAY STEALTHY, STAY AWAY FROM THE GOVERMENT/ MANNED AIRCRAFT, LOWER YOUR DRONE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO WITHOUT LOSING CONTACT WITH IT.

I totally agree with some of your points about trying to land and the losing contact. I don't agree with "ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT". Stealth is also fine as long as you will accept responsibility if an incident occurs.

 

[Robert Prior]

ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT.

Illegal if the drone weighs 250 g or more. (And if that's the case you are also required to fly VLOS in Canada, or 500 m max distance, whichever is less.)

If your drone is 249 g or less then the requirements are to fly in a safe and responsible manner.

While there are no prescriptive elements of the regulations, there is an expectation that the pilot of a micro drone to use good judgment, identify potential hazards, and take all necessary steps to avoid any risks associated with flying your drone.

As a good practice, you should always:

• maintain the drone in direct line of sight

Flying late at night without lights is not following good practice.

 

[Grazuncle]

Regulations or laws only control the behaviour of the law abiding.. but they are a mechanism to prosecute for the lawless. Those prone to 'doing what they want' only respond the the punishment albeit reluctantly. This is no different to any behaviour; driving, building and construction etc etc

I'd agree that stronger regulation tends to come in when enough idiots (or those who can't be bothered to discover the existing regulations.. perhaps still idiots then?) cause a problem to others or themselves.

awaken the civil or federal watchdogs at your peril..

 

[AirOso]

I am asking this question out of lack of experience of night flights (I have 107, but have never flown at night), not to be a devil's advocate.
But even if the OP had landed immediately, without return to home, which would have been the 'best' option, isn't it probable that he would have still been reported? The strobe would still be on and the helo pilot may not have known it was one the ground. Again, the question is not to be confrontational, but I am curious.
The true learning experience here is to follow the rules and be able to relate them to the FAA if/when that call comes. From what I hear with most of these contacts with the FAA is they want to make sure you follow the rules and they treat it as an educational opportunity. There seems to be a very tight correlation with how you respond and the favorable outcome.

 

[wardtom084]

I am asking this question out of lack of experience of night flights (I have 107, but have never flown at night), not to be a devil's advocate.
But even if the OP had landed immediately, without return to home, which would have been the 'best' option, isn't it probable that he would have still been reported? The strobe would still be on and the helo pilot may not have known it was one the ground. Again, the question is not to be confrontational, but I am curious.
The true learning experience here is to follow the rules and be able to relate them to the FAA if/when that call comes. From what I hear with most of these contacts with the FAA is they want to make sure you follow the rules and they treat it as an educational opportunity. There seems to be a very tight correlation with how you respond and the favorable outcome.

Well since you are 107 you know you do not fly under/over the aircraft and give right of way. This was not good enough in my case as you can see by the op so WE just had a discussion on the phone. Apparently one rule does not cover all of the this and that and like my 107 son said he cannot judge the distance in the dark and did not know that I was one of the good guys. Another rule?......no flying with in two miles of a air ambulance? And like I said if this would have been during the day he probably would not have noticed me. Night time you get the call, day........And those fire house strobes. You know I am in the neighborhood.

 

[dronerdave]

Yeah, some of the rules are vague. I’d suspect if these kinds of issues keep popping up, the FAA might address it.

Technically it seems you were in compliance provided you were VOLS, could tell the drones flight path, and felt able to safely see and avoid manned aircraft if they entered the area. But the Medi-flight pilot must have had some thoughts that worried him/her. Perhaps the height you were flying and/or the fact you were flying a pattern was taken into account. I run 4 strobes on my drone at night and it really stands out. It’s difficult for me to determine exactly where and what I’m over at extended distances (even during the day) and I’d think the helicopter pilot a half mile away wouldn’t be able pinpoint the drone’s location either. Maybe you were in the pilots intended flight path when preparing to take off and was concerned? Who knows, maybe the pilot over reacted.

At least the FAA didn't overreact and just wanted to get a picture of what happened. Doesn't sound like you were told to stop flying like you were. Or did they?oooo

 

[Heavydpj]

The Air Ambulance was in one night to our base. I was in the area but not all that close to him (not that it seems to make any difference). It was late at night in this small town so very quite. Up with my Firehouse strobes I knew the pilot could see me. He alerted the ground crew that a drone was in the area. I heard him start up his engine and started moving quickly back to home point. Finally got the first warning of aircraft in area now back home. I was down to 53 feet when he passed where home point was. Found out later they had even sent one of the officers out to find me and could not. All info is recorded on AirData and I had even sent a pix to the FAA (which they appreciated) along with the Trust certificate and drone registration. If this would have been during the day I doubt that I would have even been seen. I told the FAA I broke no rules and all clearance was given to the helicopter. My son (107) said of the night he pilot could not see how far away I was and would not have known I was one of the good guys. The file has been closed and the FAA is a little more particular on these emergency flights. On one side I was wrong but on the other side I did nothing wrong. Discussion?

You were definitely in the wrong. You almost certainly violated minimum vertical and / or horizontal aircraft separation distances. The fact that you did so at night (IFR conditions) makes it more concerning. The pilot of the helicpopter (no doubt responding to an emergency) has no idea who these blinky strobes belong to, their intent, knowledge of aviation procedures, sobriety, or any of a dozen other factors.

All the pilot knows is that just as they aircraft is taking off (a critical phase of flight), a possibly critical / lethal anomaly in the flight environment is occurring.

 

[wardtom084]

To be clear. I was not in his flight path. Being at one time on the rescue squad, I know where they head off to. I was to his west and I knew he was taking off. I am in the mountain area and in my yard I have a 300 foot mountain that is 200 feet from the house. On my flight I would guess I could have gotten up to 450 feet and was VLOS for the entire flight.

 

[dart106]

My fear is that questionable incidents like this will only increase the level of regulation and limit an already limited ability for pilots to fly in many areas where they could be flown safely, for commercial purposes. I think there needs to be different rules for commercial vs. recreational pilots. It is indeed a slippery slope and my fear is things will continue to get even more restrictive in the future.

Agree. Since Orville and Wilbur established the first two rules of aviation, Don’t scratch the paint and Don’t make anyone bleed, there are thousands of rules & regulations intent on regulating good judgement. The slope is near vertical.

 

[BanditsRoost]

Absolutely. I have a previous engagement here in Waynesville Saturday or I would try and make the drive over.

Waynesville?? Wow, just a hoot ena hollar from Robbinsville! A cup a joe someday.

 

[BigAl07]

Waynesville?? Wow, just a hoot ena hollar from Robbinsville! A cup a joe someday.

I'm over in Robbinsville every few weeks with work. It's funny because I won't have ANY jobs over there for weeks and then I'll have half a dozen all in a couple days. So I try and "bank" as many while I'm over there to reduce the drive time. It's BEAUTIFUL over there and the lake is stunning.

 

[gw812]

Illegal if the drone weighs 250 g or more. (And if that's the case you are also required to fly VLOS in Canada, or 500 m max distance, whichever is less.)

If your drone is 249 g or less then the requirements are to fly in a safe and responsible manner.



Flying late at night without lights is not following good practice.

Flying late at night without lights violates FAA rules...

 

[MS Coast]

Putting a drone on the ground is CRASHING IT.

When you gain a little more skill, you may be able to describe that process as a landing.

 

[BobaFut]

When you gain a little more skill, you may be able to describe that process as a landing.

One reason I won't fly at night is the difficulty with finding an emergency landing spot if things go sideways. A landing where you can't fully make out the surface you're landing on has a high likelihood of becoming a crash landing.

 

[Don Testme]

When you gain a little more skill, you may be able to describe that process as a landing.

Well, for me anyway, if I am in VLOS and above the tree line at lets say 200ft, but can not make it home or into a large enough clearing to land safely, I'm either going into the trees or an area that I can't gain access too.

I fly over swampy wet terrain often. There's no landing in that kind of terrain. Then I have a problem with flying over dense forests. No landing there either. Thus, I said, landing is a crash, if you will.

What do I do in practice? I usually just hover about 10-20 ft over the tree line or just high enough so I can see the drone hovering there. I might move laterally in either direction depending on the trajectory of the manned aircraft. Manned aircraft usually won't fly that low to the tree line, cross my fingers.

Just asking, what would you do if you were 600 ft away over a forest, flying at 360ft to keep contact with the drone, knowing if you go below 300 ft at that distance you will lose connection, and their is no clear areas you can possibly land safely? I suppose I would try flying as fast as I could back to my home point? I don't know for sure.

 

[Don Testme]

I totally agree with some of your points about trying to land and the losing contact. I don't agree with "ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT". Stealth is also fine as long as you will accept responsibility if an incident occurs.

I agree, I shouldn't have added that, "ALL IDENTIFYING MARKS REMOVED INSIDE AND OUT. " , That was a bit/ a lot overboard.

 

[Siam]

From the perspective of a drone pilot, and a person that has logged over 10000 hours flying fixed-wing and rotor aircraft: Put the drone down! The helo that took off might have to make sudden changes (like birds they see). You have no idea what the flight plan is and where they are going. They might be taking off in one direction and immediately change course because of (fill in a reason here). What if the helo had a problem (chip light, engine failure) they have to maneuver in a safe manner without worrying about something .25 miles away..that happens real fast. The last thing they need to worry about is something else in the air.

I think you did what you thought is best. I think a good learning experience for everyone.