Got reported and a call from the FAA

[Don Testme]

Your suggestion is completely illegal and therefore, poor advice.

From what I read on the FAA website, recreational flyers do not need to use lights at night. Only 107 pilots must use lights. I know it sounds weird, but that's what I got from the FAAs website. Unless the rules have been changed again.

 

[BigAl07]

From what I read on the FAA website, recreational flyers do not need to use lights at night. Only 107 pilots must use lights. I know it sounds weird, but that's what I got from the FAAs website. Unless the rules have been changed again.

Which CBO rules are you adhering to in terms of "Recreational Flights"? If you are not flying under Part 107 then I guess it's safe to assume you're flying under the Exemption for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft ( 49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft ). This is clearly defined under the TRUST Training program which I'm sure you have taken and passed since it's a legal REQUIREMENT for Recreational UAS Operations.

Part of ~44809 states you must follow a CBO set of rules and since currently the AMA the only approved CBO (this could change any day now) and they clearly state:

"For night flying, AMA requires that aircraft be equipped with anti-collision lighting that can be seen from 3 statute miles away unless it poses a hazard or distraction to the operator. Other lighting must be used in such a way that allows you to determine attitude and direction of flight. Hand-held illumination systems by themselves are inadequate for night flying operations. Night flight presents visual perception challenges. Since your vision and depth perception can be altered in darkness, night flying requires training through AMA."
(page 10 0f the AMA's Handbook)

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

So again please enlighten us how your "illegal statement" of: "THAT MEANS NO LIGHTS AT NIGHT" is anything but HORRIBLE advice?

 

[Don Testme]

Which CBO rules are you adhering to in terms of "Recreational Flights"? If you are not flying under Part 107 then I guess it's safe to assume you're flying under the Exemption for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft ( 49 U.S. Code § 44809 - Exception for limited recreational operations of unmanned aircraft ). This is clearly defined under the TRUST Training program which I'm sure you have taken and passed since it's a legal REQUIREMENT for Recreational UAS Operations.

Part of ~44809 states you must follow a CBO set of rules and since currently the AMA the only approved CBO (this could change any day now) and they clearly state:

"For night flying, AMA requires that aircraft be equipped with anti-collision lighting that can be seen from 3 statute miles away unless it poses a hazard or distraction to the operator. Other lighting must be used in such a way that allows you to determine attitude and direction of flight. Hand-held illumination systems by themselves are inadequate for night flying operations. Night flight presents visual perception challenges. Since your vision and depth perception can be altered in darkness, night flying requires training through AMA."
(page 10 0f the AMA's Handbook)

https://www.modelaircraft.org/sites/default/files/documents/100.pdf

So again please enlighten us how your "illegal statement" of: "THAT MEANS NO LIGHTS AT NIGHT" is anything but HORRIBLE advice?

I took the TRUST exam. Well, if the AMA is the only CBO, if you want to fly legally, then use the lights.

Be cautioned. Using lights at night may result in police or citizen harassment. Violence could even occur. But, I assume that won't happen to other people. Except it happened to me 5 times over 2 years.

 

[BigAl07]

I took the TRUST exam. Well, if the AMA is the only CBO, if you want to fly legally, then use the lights.

Be cautioned. Using lights at night may result in police or citizen harassment. Violence could even occur. But, I assume that won't happen to other people. Except it happened to me 5 times over 2 years.

LOL regardless you're NOT legal if you're flying in the USA and not using anti-collision lighting that can be seen from 3 statute miles away!!

There's LEGAL and there's your way.. they are not one and the same . . .

 

[Don Testme]

LOL regardless you're NOT legal if you're flying in the USA and not using anti-collision lighting that can be seen from 3 statute miles away!!

There's LEGAL and there's your way.. they are not one and the same . . .

What types of lights do hobbyists/recreational flyers need?​

This is how I got my opinion.

"Currently, 3SM strobes are a Part 107 requirement only for night operations. This may change
according to FAA Advisory Circular 91-57C that came out on 10/20/22. New CBO safety rules may require 3SM strobes for recreational night flights, but they don’t for now."

UAS Night Operations: How to Fly Your Drone at Night - 42West

Although the latest advancements in drones have made UAVs accessible, flying a drone at night requires additional safety measures.

www.adorama.com

THE AMA WAS JUST CERTIFIFIED IN NOVEMBER. I'M A MONTH OFF. Give me some slack.
I'm still not gonna use them. My risk. Sorry.

 

[BigAl07]

What types of lights do hobbyists/recreational flyers need?​

This is how I got my opinion.

"Currently, 3SM strobes are a Part 107 requirement only for night operations. This may change
according to FAA Advisory Circular 91-57C that came out on 10/20/22. New CBO safety rules may require 3SM strobes for recreational night flights, but they don’t for now."

UAS Night Operations: How to Fly Your Drone at Night - 42West

Although the latest advancements in drones have made UAVs accessible, flying a drone at night requires additional safety measures.

www.adorama.com

And I QUOTED you the CBO rules. If you follow all of the rules (~44809 all the way down to CBO) you'll see they are currently required by the CBO. You can't read only the potion of the regulations that make you happen and ignore ALL of the rest.

 

[BobaFut]

Violence could even occur. But, I assume that won't happen to other people. Except it happened to me 5 times over 2 years.

At some point this should probably prompt some self reflection rather than rule flouting?

 

[karlblessing]

From what I read on the FAA website, recreational flyers do not need to use lights at night. Only 107 pilots must use lights. I know it sounds weird, but that's what I got from the FAAs website. Unless the rules have been changed again.

You read that incorrectly.

Part 107 does have more specific requirements such as needing to be visible for 3 statue miles.

But recreational fliers still need at the very least "anti collision lights" , which could just be the included led as brightness/etc is not defined but still required regardless. Meaning complete stealth wouldn't be legal especially since you would not have VLOS for sure either.

Edit and far as the new CBO guidelines, other than the fpv focused ones I believe they all require some sort of lighting, tho the FAA strongly "encourage" them to adopt a 3sm requirement.

 

[Aerophile]

I keep telling people to fly incognito i.e. stealthy.
THAT MEANS NO LIGHTS AT NIGHT.
AND, FLY HIGH DURING THE DAY.
ALSO, DON'T PUT YOURSELF IN VIEW OF PEOPLE WHEN FLYING. They may see the drone, but don't let them see you.

When I first started flying drones, I was often confronted by police. They always thought I was up to nefarious things. After several months and 5 times of being questioned by police, I made sure I was hidden when flying and made sure my drone was almost never seen or heard.

It worked.

However, now, with RID approaching I'm going to be extremely cautious with the way I fly. If I see a manned aircraft anywhere, I will fly as low as possible without losing signal or land at my home point immediately. We all know landing a drone that is too far away, will cause signal loss. If you aren't landing in a completely safe area, your drone will likely crash.

And this is EXACTLY why airspace restrictions continue to become tighter and tighter. That trend will continue as long as people have this irresponsible and childish attitude that the rules don't apply to them.

 

[GFields]

UAS Night Operations: How to Fly Your Drone at Night - 42West

Although the latest advancements in drones have made UAVs accessible, flying a drone at night requires additional safety measures.

www.adorama.com

Don,

Regardless of being a hobbyist or a Part 107 pilot, it is important that one knows the regulations. Therefore,
instead of reading what Adorama might have to say, why not go directly to the horse's mouth, the FAA

Night Operations​

This rule allows routine operations of small UAS, beginning April 21, 2021, at night under two conditions:

1. The remote pilot in command must complete an updated initial knowledge test or online recurrent training, and
2. The small unmanned aircraft must have lighted anti-collision lighting visible for at least three (3) statute miles that has a flash rate sufficient to avoid a collision.

Another great resource comes from one of our vendors, The Pilot Institute. Read their article on the subject here.

And finally, there is nothing wrong with coming to the realization that you were mistaken and admitting it. We all want the best for all the drone pilots out there!

Fly safe, fly smart, and fly legally!

 

[Robert Prior]

why not go directly to the horse's mouth, the FAA

I think Don is in Canada, in which case the equine is Transport Canada, and the regulation is:

901.39 (1) No pilot shall operate a remotely piloted aircraft system during the night unless the remotely piloted aircraft is equipped with position lights sufficient to allow the aircraft to be visible to the pilot and any visual observer, whether with or without night-vision goggles, and those lights are turned on.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-433/FullText.html#s-900.01

 

[GFields]

I think Don is in Canada, in which case the equine is Transport Canada, and the regulation is:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-96-433/FullText.html#s-900.01

Yes, Robert, I realize that. However, he was offering advice to FAA pilots. Nonetheless, even in Canada, the same rule applies.

 

[karlblessing]

I took the TRUST exam. Well, if the AMA is the only CBO, if you want to fly legally, then use the lights.

Be cautioned. Using lights at night may result in police or citizen harassment. Violence could even occur. But, I assume that won't happen to other people. Except it happened to me 5 times over 2 years.

I feel like your general attitude towards rules and authority may be a factor into inviting those kind of altercations. Sneaking around and behaving as such tends to do that.

 

[okw]

... currently the AMA the only approved CBO ...

There are actually now 4 recognized CBOs per the FAA's website. I didn't know the STEM+C was one. Must have just been added.

 

[Don Testme]

I feel like your general attitude towards rules and authority may be a factor into inviting those kind of altercations. Sneaking around and behaving as such tends to do that.

Only in the first 2 years of starting this hobby did I get harrassed by police. I always had my paperwork in order. The police finally stopped responding to my neighbors' complaints. To appease the neighbors, I took off to 370ft and then would leave the neighborhood. They no longer had an issue as long as wasn't seen flying near their homes.

 

[karlblessing]

Only in the first 2 years of starting this hobby did I get harrassed by police. I always had my paperwork in order. The police finally stopped responding to my neighbors' complaints. To appease the neighbors, I took off to 370ft and then would leave the neighborhood. They no longer had an issue as long as wasn't seen flying near their homes.

Maybe get away from home once in a while?

 

[Don Testme]

Maybe get away from home once in a while?

I do admit , I fly from my house a lot. When I go out to other places like parks and beaches, I haven't been bothered yet. Most people who are interested in the hobby and would like to know more, talk with me. Sometimes LE sees me and hangs out with me while I fly, but then some other LE guys will tell me to stop, claiming disturbing the peace. Every individual officer has their own opinions of the hobby. Some approve, some don't.

 

[dronerdave]

In regard to night flying, recreational night flying has been going on for years in the helicopter and fixed wing world at AMA sanctioned clubs sites. I have a few planes with internal lights that light the whole plane up. Nothing about 3 mi-vis strobes has ever came up. I doubt if strobes have even been addressed by the AMA for these night time events. I have yet to see any change anyway. These events are often even held at active airport runways. But most club rules have wording about no recreational flying over people, vehicles, or occupied structures as well as how to deal with local manned aircraft sharing the runway if using one. I don't fly over homes during a recreation flight, especially at night. If my quad falls from the sky, I don't want the possibility of harm coming to people of property. YMMV.

 

[Don Testme]

CBOs, night flights, lights and other rules are not yet well established. They are more established for 107 pilot, but recreational? Well, it leans towards using lights.

 

[Firejay27]

Take a look at the following link. All night operations require lights.

Can I Fly My Drone At Night: Pilotinstitute.com

Both Part 107-licensed and recreational drone pilots can now fly their drones at night without having to apply for a waiver.

pilotinstitute.com