have DJI become victims of their own success

[RayOZ]

I WOULD! Especially by a company that knows how to maintain growth, and treat their customers better.



Not after DJI found $147 million missing from their cookie jar. They would be lucky to get a fair buyout offer. Then if they did, Im sure that half the DJI staff would be furloughed.



Success is important, but how do you , or more importantly a potential DJI buyer, measure success? Profits? Gross sales? Market domination? Efficient corporate structure? Oh my, my. Profits for 2018? Oops, had a $147 fraud event. So much for 2018 profits. 2019 profits? That would fall into the projection category, not success. Projections are what make a company, especially an IPO, have value. If a company has slowed down new releases, lost $147 million dollars somewhere last year, has no new products on the horizon, and is trying to hold market share based on its current products, best of luck to them.

I have a great idea! maybe DJI can start a Gofundme campaign.. I can help with the campaign title.

"Drone manufacturer trying to raise a few hundred million to create a new product. You can donate as little as $10 for a $5 discount coupon on a Phantom 5, Mavic 3, or Mavic Air 2."

Maybe we are going off tangent...
If their revenue is in the billions, and their estimated value is in the billions, $147 mil is small change. Lot's of companies have employees with sticky fingers. Instead of offering $10bil, offer $9.85bil? But if they dealt with the fraud issue, it's not an on-going $147m annual loss.
How much did it cost Samsung to can Note 7? How much did that impact their stock price?
Success is definitely subjective. But a simple measure might be "making more money than your competitors and there's still plenty of demand for your current product line"?
Anyway, they probably make more money going public.

 

[Former Member]

If their revenue is in the billions, and their estimated value is in the billions, $147 mil is small change.

We really dont know what their revenue or profit is because they dont have audited financial statements available to the public. Its really anyones guess as to DJIs revenue, but who really knows? DJI doesnt even really know. They couldnt, because a huge fraud scheme would negatively impact any profits for that time period. Also, when it comes to estimated value, that value is based on many factors, not the least of which is projected performance. I heard one guess that DJI is worth $10 billion. That guess was based on multiples of revenue. Valuating a business in multiples of revenue can change in a heartbeat, the greatest of which would be loss of consumer or investor confidence in the company. Huge cases of fraud are one example that would scare any sane investor to death, especially if it goes high up the chain of command.

Success is definitely subjective. But a simple measure might be "making more money than your competitors and there's still plenty of demand for your current product line"?
Anyway, they probably make more money going public.

Unfortunately, measuring a company by how much more it makes than a competitor would be a risky way to buy a stock or to value a company. Grossing more than your competitor, but netting less is a recipe for disaster. Companies offer "loss leader" products to build market share, but that is not sustainable.

Most times people would want to invest in a company that grosses less but nets more. Net profits are sustainable, net losses are not. With tech companies, youre only as good as your latest products. It's a brutal world of combat, and he who launches their product first usually matters alot. The other companies will have to play catch up.

I still remember the Karma/Mavic battle 3 years ago. Mavic released first, but the majority of products did not ship for many months after release. I was on the list of folks who waited that eternity. That should have been a Kickstarter campaign, because they really were not ramped up for production, but they released the product anyway, and took peoples money, just so they could beat Gopro to the starting line. Cutthroat way to do business, but the Karma wasnt ready anyway.

 

[Dragonfly]

Why do they need to release new models, I assure you they already have new models already designed and waiting in the wings for release but without any competition to compete why do they need too.
They just need to exhaust and suck the most out off existing lines first untill another company announces new product then DJI jump on them with one of their new models as they did with Karma and then the Evo.

 

[j.coffield]

Why a DJI Mavic cannot replace a Phantom for many drone pilots

A DJI Mavic cannot replace a Phantom for many drone pilots because it’s is lacking a number of critical features....

dronedj.com

 

[Former Member]

Why do they need to release new models, I assure you they already have new models already designed and waiting in the wings for release but without any competition to compete why do they need too.
They just need to exhaust and suck the most out off existing lines first untill another company announces new product then DJI jump on them with one of their new models as they did with Karma and then the Evo.

So what you're saying is that DJI should just rest on their laurels, not introduce any new products until a competitor introduces one, and then try to crush the competition with their new product?

Hmmm, maybe the elusive P5 is just waiting for some competition.

 

[Lon Denard]

One issue here is the ability to utilize further growth and upgrades in the 'prosumer' drone market. It's realistically feasible for DJI to hang a 5.6K or greater camera on such a drone, but it's not terribly useful more most buyers who are either only able to view their work on a 4K monitor or TV, or are posting their work to the internet at a considerably lower resolution. Unless you're in the business of shooting major motion pictures or are a serious photographer needing exacting detail for a project or enterprise type work, there probably isn't much of a need - or a market for that matter - to advertise something with a greater capability for the average guy or gal on the street who flies drones for fun. I'd say DJI's current marketing strategy of making existing high end consumer drones more compact with more intelligent autopilot and safety features is a good one. And I also say by DJI's sales figures on the Mavic line that it's working!

Now I do know that DJI has had some serious problems with internal corruption as of late that it's fighting its way through. But that is a different story.

All that being said, it would be nice to see DJI consumer products which can shoot 4K at 60+ FPS again. And, though I've not flown one yet, my impression of the Mavic 2 Zoom from the sidelines is that it's kinda gimmicky (no offense) adding a more limited zoom feature on an inferior camera to the Mavic 2 Pro. But DJI may be able to claim otherwise and vindicate that with its quarterly financial reports.

Do you have any new suggestions for future DJI 'prosumer' products?

Osmo Pocket shoots in 4k 60

 

[MavicFT1P]

Washington Redskins?

 

[LowCountryFlyer]

Why do they need to release new models, I assure you they already have new models already designed and waiting in the wings for release but without any competition to compete why do they need too.
They just need to exhaust and suck the most out off existing lines first untill another company announces new product then DJI jump on them with one of their new models as they did with Karma and then the Evo.

Well that's pretty true of any product line. I remember once reading an article on video game consoles where the author interviewed the then CEO of Nintendo. He said that the hardware capabilities on the consoles had to be rationed out over the service life of the units because once a game takes advantage of a new or advanced hardware feature, customers will demand that or better out of EVERY game a software house produces and if it doesn't deliver that, business rapidly declines.

If I were a betting man, the rumors of a Phantom V in the works are just that. DJI has shifted attention at this point to either developing a Mavic 3 or Mavic Air 2 - or even both. Then again a Phantom V just might appear at the next tech show. Who knows?

 

[MavicNovice]

At this point the only thing that would get my attention away from my Mavic Pro would be some sort of Mavic Nano or Spark 2 - essentially a sub 250 gram unit,
with, at minimum,

1080p @30/60 or better
decent Optical Stabilisation akin to what we see in current GoPros, to avoid having a gimble
GPS
active Track of some kind
15 mins flight time or better
SD card on-drone recording

Bring me that in a sub-250 gram package and I'll be all over it. An AC like that would be ultraportable, able to deliver acceptable results, have some utility and be usable in locations where other DJI drones simply could not be deployed. I'd argue two out of those four are not currently doable with a Tello.

 

[Meta4]

I assure you they already have new models already designed and waiting in the wings for release ... untill another company announces new product then DJI jump on them with one of their new models as they did with Karma and then the Evo.

If that was really the case, how is it that there's been no replacement or upgrade for the Phantom 4 pro in over 2.5 years and the Phantom has been out of production for the last 6 months?
DJI has customers that would snap up a new successor to the P4 pro but they aren't offering anything anything for that market sector.
No other maker has released a product to challenge anything from DJI, they have all been well behind DJI's tech so far.

 

[jonthecourier]

2019 has not been very productive for DJI no new drones on the horizon just some small upgrades to existing products.the problem i think is because the products that are available are so good,that the technological improvements that are required for the next gen drones are either to expensive or are not yet a reality, and there is one big fact that all drone makers have to take into consideration,when considering new products and that is the impact that the new drone laws that are being rolled out around the world are going to have on ongoing sales of drones.i hope that DJI will continue to lead the world in drone development and at a price that the hobby consumer can afford

You are quite right my friend, this proposed charge of £16.50 per year will either drive people away or they will not register at all, in fact I have just emailed the people that we sent our representations into saying that it is a TAX and they will drive people away, what good it will do remains to be seen. John

 

[Former Member]

So, back to the topic of this thread. What is DJI currently planning on releasing in the near future? No speculation, no imagination, just facts? Anything? Anything? Its getting warm out here in the southern USA. Better hurry DJI!

 

[FormerMember06292019_2]

DJI expanded out of drones and into camera gimbles and stabilization. Expand into a market segment when the current is saturated. Seems like basic business sense. I am wondering if they will move into recreational/racing drones and dedicated FPV. The current goggles seem overlarge for that segment.

 

[lolo780]

A 249g drone with a 3 axis, 4k camera, GPS, small battery. Have an optional high capacity battery for use where 250g+ isn't an issue.

 

[old man mavic]

i started this thread because i firmly believe that DJI are holding back from newer models for two reasons,(1) they are concentrating on battery development to increase flight times of their UAVs which would give them an advantage in the search and rescue sector of the market,or even a different type of power source altogether,(2)with the flight restrictions that are being applied around the world with regards to distance and height their current line up far exceeds those limits, they have for the hobby market i think in the mavic series gone as far as they need to go, yes they can fit more advanced cameras for the dedicated photographer but for the average person in the street their UAVs are top of the range, i dont think for one minute that there are not new products in the pipeline,but we are going to have to wait before they come online

 

[boldblue737]

2019 has not been very productive for DJI no new drones on the horizon just some small upgrades to existing products.the problem i think is because the products that are available are so good,that the technological improvements that are required for the next gen drones are either to expensive or are not yet a reality, and there is one big fact that all drone makers have to take into consideration,when considering new products and that is the impact that the new drone laws that are being rolled out around the world are going to have on ongoing sales of drones.i hope that DJI will continue to lead the world in drone development and at a price that the hobby consumer can afford

I don’t get this thread at all. While I agree that a maturing market and DJI’s lack of competition has naturally slowed the release of drones to say that 2019 is somehow a down year when the vast majority of the year (and it’s holiday season) remains is puzzling to me. There will be new drones from DJI this year including I believe an update to the Mavic Air, some clarity on the future direction of Phantom (even if that means eliminating it permanently but adding a 4K 60fps camera to Mavic 2 Pro+ etc.) DJI will have new drones, they always do.

PS: the slowing isn’t just tech changes slowing but the reality is many folks have already bought a drone (before few people had one) so the uptake in drones is slowing because you aren’t going to convince people they need to update their drone yearly.

 

[Zandian]

I’ve always been a technology early adopter. I took awhile to get into a drone because I wasn’t sure how I could justify the $1300 for something I just flew around and took pictures with. But once I bought my first Phantom 4 I was hooked. I then bought the Mavic before the announcement presentation was over, same with the air and Mavic 2. I’ve shelled out that kind of money over and over because I’ve really enjoyed flying and finding new and creative ways to make videos and pictures.

But the tide is turning for me. I’m not digging all the growing regulations and restrictions. The various governments and local communities are making it almost impossible to fly anywhere without being hassled. There are fewer and fewer places I can travel to where I can use my drone. So it’s getting harder and harder for me to justify a new purchase.

I think the writing is on the wall for DJI as well I think they see the changing tide in consumer drones. I think they are focusing on specialty uses where regulations won’t impact them as much. This is why they made the Enterprise. I think this is why they are winding down the Phantom series.

I think they should be focusing on modular pro-sumer drones like the Enterprise. It gives options for people like me who may not want to buy the next $1500 Mavic, but might pay $500 for an upgraded camera, or FLiR.

It’s sad that this is how the environment is becoming so restricted because it really is a fun hobby and most of us are very respectful and safe. The future just seems a bit dark for me.

Z

 

[simsurf]

exactly Rob that was my motivation for the thread what is going on there could be many factors,i just put forward a couple of ideas on the subject just my take on the issue

I'm not even sure how this is an "issue". Wouldn't we all rather have polished products that work, rather than rushed crappy products every few months to satisfy people's urges to bow down to the gods of consumerism.


Jeez it was a only a few years ago I was flying the original phantom with a GoPro hanging of the bottom and the only flight data or features was a diamond on the screen telling me when I was facing home. And that was on an extra monitor I had to buy. No phones or tablets.

 

[Tom Watson]

i would love to be able to purchase a UAV that was made in the UK,unfortunately the few that are ,are priced way to high for hobbyists,its not a case of giving to much business to china,its that they make the best product at a reasonable price point,this is not a political forum,and has nothing to do with where we live its about flying our UAVs

Hi Kem and crew, you should know that anything to do with the UK will always be way overpriced, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the electrics in the few drones they make are China made anyway. just like UK cars, you cant buy one with a UK engine. UK ?????

 

[simsurf]

A year in technology equates to a lifetime.



It depends who you are. If you got used to having the latest and greatest in tech, again, one year is a long time. DJIs track record of multiple annual new release drones is what we have to go by. Anticipation has grown for their products, and it is due to their ability to release them. Back to the subject of the thread, has DJI become a victim of their own success... apparently so.



Thats is exactly what they have been doing for years. Phantom 4 vs. Mavic Pro. Phantom 4 Pro v2 vs. Mavic 2. Mavic Air vs. Spark. Just so they could stay competitive with other brands. Shooting themselves in the foot must hurt, and they have done it many times.



That has been their modus operandi from day 1.



I wouldnt say none. The competition smells the blood trail. Can DJI keep pace? Stayed tuned for the next chapter of the saga...

What competition? I was looking at ag drones for spraying last year and all the non DJI drones I could find were made with DJI parts!

GoPro were getting kinda close with the karma but gave up and closed their drone division.