Help with rules/regs...

[drone_dh]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum for this question, along with my simply not knowing enough.... yet.

My nephew is getting married next weekend in Gilford, NH. I had downloaded the B4UFLY app and put in Gilford, NH. There are several restrictions listed from a couple of local airports. As long as I keep the drone below the 400ft level and am doing it just for the fun of flying my bird, and being able to give my nephew and new neice some really good video of their wedding (I am NOT charging anyone for anything!), do I need special permission to fly and video the wedding? I'm reading so much, hopefully someone with experience can point me to where I can get some answers. Again, I apologize for my lack of understanding, total newbie to droning here!
THANKS!

 

[Phantomrain.org]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum for this question, along with my simply not knowing enough.... yet.

My nephew is getting married next weekend in Gilford, NH. I had downloaded the B4UFLY app and put in Gilford, NH. There are several restrictions listed from a couple of local airports. As long as I keep the drone below the 400ft level and am doing it just for the fun of flying my bird, and being able to give my nephew and new neice some really good video of their wedding (I am NOT charging anyone for anything!), do I need special permission to fly and video the wedding? I'm reading so much, hopefully someone with experience can point me to where I can get some answers. Again, I apologize for my lack of understanding, total newbie to droning here!
THANKS!

You are good to go : The key is Intent and so your intent is not to charge anything so have fun at the wedding, be creative , get permission from the Church to walk you drone inside and than when you get to the door fly out , Than Cut that right into the another video of the Wedding and you got yourself a nice opening video scene.

Phantomrain.org
Gear to fly your Mavic in the Rain and Float on Water

 

[PhantomFandom]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum for this question, along with my simply not knowing enough.... yet.

My nephew is getting married next weekend in Gilford, NH. I had downloaded the B4UFLY app and put in Gilford, NH. There are several restrictions listed from a couple of local airports. As long as I keep the drone below the 400ft level and am doing it just for the fun of flying my bird, and being able to give my nephew and new neice some really good video of their wedding (I am NOT charging anyone for anything!), do I need special permission to fly and video the wedding? I'm reading so much, hopefully someone with experience can point me to where I can get some answers. Again, I apologize for my lack of understanding, total newbie to droning here!
THANKS!

Hello,

There are a few issues to look at here:

First it depends on EXACTLY where you will be flying. You then need to look at the FAA airspace to see if you can legally fly there or not. 400 feet is the absolute maximum altitude you would be allowed to fly if the airspace is not controlled. In controlled airspace you may need to acquire LAANC authorization to fly and you may be restricted to some lower altitude. No way to answer this unless you provide the exact location. If the flight will be taking place right in downtown Gilford, it looks like you should be fine up to an altitude of 400 feet since the closest controlled airspace is Concord Municipal, but you are well clear of that. The closer airport is Laconia Municipal and (again depending on exactly where you will be) you should also be clear of that since Gilford is not in the approach and departure paths. You should also be clear of the pattern, and you will be below 400 feet.

The second point is that of commercial vs recreational. I don't think that is as clear-cut. First, in order to be considered commercial you do NOT need to be compensated. A flight can still be considered commercial without any compensation. This technically is not strictly recreational. You are not flying "just for your own enjoyment". You are flying to accomplish a task, and that is to get pictures and video for your niece and nephew. It does not matter that they are not paying you. You are still flying expressly for the purpose of providing them this "product". It would absolutely be commercial if a professional photographer did it for money. It would still be commercial if that same photographer did it for free. You being related to them does not change the scope and purpose of the flight.

Will anyone care? Most likely not. Can you get in trouble? Probably not. Would you have a big issue with the FAA if some incident occurred during this flight? Yes you would. Would you have serious legal issues if someone got injured by your drone during this "commercial" flight? Yes you would. So proceed at your own risk.

Also remember to follow all FAA regulations. Always within VLOS and never fly directly over any people. Flying directly over the wedding party or guests can yield dramatic footage, but not allowed per FAA regulations. Be safe and stay legal.

 

[dronerdave]

Unless you are in restricted air space. What are the restrictions indicated on B4UFly?

 

[PhantomFandom]

You are good to go : The key is Intent and so your intent is not to charge anything so have fun

Not true. Please see above. Monetary compensation has nothing to do with commercial vs recreational.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

Not true. Please see above. Monetary compensation has nothing to do with commercial vs recreational.

Sorry im not buying what your selling.

This topic has been discussed before and the key is Intent: His is very clear. The word wedding has nothing to do with it , could as well been a boat with his parent on it and he wanted to film it.

You did point out that he could not fly over people so that was good.

 

[drone_dh]

I love this forum. Very quick and professional answers... Thank you all. My B4UFLY show yellow for both airports near Gilford, and I am trying to identify the exact location of the wedding - it is some extravagant place that you cannot even drive to, we will be bussed in. There are all kinds of lakes around there, I'm trying to steal them away for an hour or so and get some video off some rocky point or something. I didn't know you couldn't fly over people! Maybe the wedding will just have to suffice with phones and/or GoPro. I'm nothing more than an amateur photographer/videographer, mostly doing underwater videos of my extensive diving. I love this aerial arena, lots to learn though!

 

[PhantomFandom]

Sorry im not buying what your selling.

I'm not selling anything. I am not here to sell products.

This topic has been discussed before and the key is Intent:

Absolutely positively true that it is about intent of the flight. That was never in question here. You are the one that said " your intent is not to charge anything so have fun" and tied compensation with intent. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Intent is in no way governed by charging or not charging. A flight can be deemed commercial in nature without there being any compensation of any kind.

The word wedding has nothing to do with it

It has very much to do with it. The whole intent of this flight would be to get footage of an event. If the footage was for his own personal pleasure then yes the intent would be purely recreational. If the footage is being shot for someone else then it crosses over to not purely for recreational purposes.

Agreed that this is one that is on the edge or in the gray area. I personally would always take the more cautious approach and not assume it is recreational.

 

[PhantomFandom]

I love this forum. Very quick and professional answers... Thank you all.

You're welcome. I hope you have a great time and enjoy the wedding.

Thank you all. My B4UFLY show yellow for both airports near Gilford, and I am trying to identify the exact location of the wedding

Based on the area, it looks like you should be fine but knowing the exact location would be helpful.

I didn't know you couldn't fly over people!

Yes that is a FAA regulation. For safety reasons, you cannot fly directly over people.

Have fun and be safe!

 

[drone_dh]

I appreciate the fervor of this conversation, I may not get to do it anyway.... the place that they rented to host the wedding won't allow it anyway. So, we are going to find someplace where there isn't anyone and shoot them some vid. There are lakes all over that area and I hope to find something with a point that I can shoot them some good dronies, etc. This is first, and foremost, for my pleasure as I'm about to scream every time I fly this thing - this Mavic is one of the coolest things I've bought for myself in a while! I know it sounds bizarre but my nephew getting the footage is only a minor thing to me. I just want to learn how to use this thing better!

 

[theDRONEranger]

Hello,

There are a few issues to look at here:

First it depends on EXACTLY where you will be flying. You then need to look at the FAA airspace to see if you can legally fly there or not. 400 feet is the absolute maximum altitude you would be allowed to fly if the airspace is not controlled. In controlled airspace you may need to acquire LAANC authorization to fly and you may be restricted to some lower altitude. No way to answer this unless you provide the exact location. If the flight will be taking place right in downtown Gilford, it looks like you should be fine up to an altitude of 400 feet since the closest controlled airspace is Concord Municipal, but you are well clear of that. The closer airport is Laconia Municipal and (again depending on exactly where you will be) you should also be clear of that since Gilford is not in the approach and departure paths. You should also be clear of the pattern, and you will be below 400 feet.

The second point is that of commercial vs recreational. I don't think that is as clear-cut. First, in order to be considered commercial you do NOT need to be compensated. A flight can still be considered commercial without any compensation. This technically is not strictly recreational. You are not flying "just for your own enjoyment". You are flying to accomplish a task, and that is to get pictures and video for your niece and nephew. It does not matter that they are not paying you. You are still flying expressly for the purpose of providing them this "product". It would absolutely be commercial if a professional photographer did it for money. It would still be commercial if that same photographer did it for free. You being related to them does not change the scope and purpose of the flight.

Will anyone care? Most likely not. Can you get in trouble? Probably not. Would you have a big issue with the FAA if some incident occurred during this flight? Yes you would. Would you have serious legal issues if someone got injured by your drone during this "commercial" flight? Yes you would. So proceed at your own risk.

Also remember to follow all FAA regulations. Always within VLOS and never fly directly over any people. Flying directly over the wedding party or guests can yield dramatic footage, but not allowed per FAA regulations. Be safe and stay legal.

According to the FAA.ORG, this falls in the category of non-profit work. Part 107 would be required! Perhaps a telephone inquiry to the local FSO could yield a more definitive answer, just to be on the safe side. Heaven help you if anyone should be harmed in any way by a malfunction or misdirection.

 

[drone_dh]

Well, the entire purpose of this thread was to see where I stood. I do not have a Part 107, I'll just leave the drone at home until I can either get a 107, or be a more seasoned Mavic pilot. I wouldn't want to harm anyone for sure... and do not want to preface my retirement by getting into trouble with the FAA on a seemingly innocent thing like video'ing my nephew's wedding with my new drone. I appreciate all of your time/posts!

 

[theDRONEranger]

It’s not that we don’t want you to do it, but rather, we want you to do it legally. I still believe an excellent question, one worthy of contacting your local FSO office.

 

[Deleted Member 997]

It’s not that we don’t want you to do it, but rather, we want you to do it legally. I still believe an excellent question, one worthy of contacting your local FSO office.

@drone_dh, I absolutely agree with @theDRONEranger . This could get bad if your drone does a nose dive on someone, your not 107, don't carry insurance. Then they can go after house if they sew if you injure some.

 

[BigAl07]

First off you have an AWESOME attitude. KUDOS!!

Well, the entire purpose of this thread was to see where I stood. I do not have a Part 107, I'll just leave the drone at home until I can either get a 107, or be a more seasoned Mavic pilot. I wouldn't want to harm anyone for sure... and do not want to preface my retirement by getting into trouble with the FAA on a seemingly innocent thing like video'ing my nephew's wedding with my new drone. I appreciate all of your time/posts!

I can tell you first hand that you can not "Hobby/Recreate" for someone else. While your intent is good and pure that doesn't change the fact you can't do it "FOR" someone else regardless of compensation etc.. Now if you had worded it a bit differently like:

"I'm going to be at a wedding. I'd like to take my UAS up and get some pics and video for my OWN benefit." then your intent is Hobby/Recreational. And then, at a later time you can GIVE the data to them. At the TIME of the flight you were flying to YOUR enjoyment and not intending to provide a product for someone else. INTENT is key. It's also important to note that DATA collected during a genuine HOBBY flight can be given and/or sold at a later time so long as the INTENT of the flight was purely recreational.

Precision flying in fairly close proximity to people is not where you want to "cut your teethe" when flying. Way too much room for error and an incident.

What's also important is to note that DRONES aren't the best camera platform for Wedding Venues. I've been doing Photography for a long time and I LOVE the flying camera aspect but it has a time and place. We do Weddings but we have to be very specific with the following details:

A) This is not your PRIMARY/Only picture/video source. Aerials are better as an ADDITION to the total package and not all inclusive in any way.
B) The TOP of the wedding party's heads don't make a very attractive picture as people from above look "Blah" at best. Shots from an angle are much more appealing but sometimes hard to capture depending on the actual venue.
C) The drone is LOUD and will catch people's attention every time it's flown. The sound is annoying and the LAST thing you want to be happening during intimate parts of the wedding. The Bride/Groom (really the BRIDE) needs to be the FOCUS of the day and people will instinctively look UP at the drone. Some become totally transfixed on it and ignore the event at hand totally.
D) You can NOT fly directly over any person except yourself and anyone directly involved with the safe operation of the aircraft. Not even over a pinky toe.
E) The amount of risk for injury, incident, distraction you bring to an already TENSE and STRESSFUL situation is just not worth it unless you are well compensated. It gets UGLY in a heart beat when dealing with an unhappy wedding party/guest.

Lastly.... the odds of there ever being some type of Official/FAA interaction from such a Drone Use is very low unless somethin goes wrong. At that point you've opened yourself up to a ton of liability etc that you clearly don't want or need.

IMHO you're much better off leaving the drone at home or somewhere and skipping the idea of Droning at the wedding.

I'm speaking from an official stand point on the not able to hobby for someone else. As I'm an FAA Safety Team Representative & Drone Pro (Charlotte NC Region & West) I'm one of the people who could be called out if there was an incident etc involving a drone, at least in my region anyway.

@Phantomrain.org I see your point but it's flawed. I'll be more than happy to discuss this topic and provide documentation if needed. You can NOT hobby for someone else at all.

 

[Phantomrain.org]

First off you have an AWESOME attitude. KUDOS!!



I can tell you first hand that you can not "Hobby/Recreate" for someone else. While your intent is good and pure that doesn't change the fact you can't do it "FOR" someone else regardless of compensation etc.. Now if you had worded it a bit differently like:

"I'm going to be at a wedding. I'd like to take my UAS up and get some pics and video for my OWN benefit." then your intent is Hobby/Recreational. And then, at a later time you can GIVE the data to them. At the TIME of the flight you were flying to YOUR enjoyment and not intending to provide a product for someone else. INTENT is key. It's also important to note that DATA collected during a genuine HOBBY flight can be given and/or sold at a later time so long as the INTENT of the flight was purely recreational.

Precision flying in fairly close proximity to people is not where you want to "cut your teethe" when flying. Way too much room for error and an incident.

What's also important is to note that DRONES aren't the best camera platform for Wedding Venues. I've been doing Photography for a long time and I LOVE the flying camera aspect but it has a time and place. We do Weddings but we have to be very specific with the following details:

A) This is not your PRIMARY/Only picture/video source. Aerials are better as an ADDITION to the total package and not all inclusive in any way.
B) The TOP of the wedding party's heads don't make a very attractive picture as people from above look "Blah" at best. Shots from an angle are much more appealing but sometimes hard to capture depending on the actual venue.
C) The drone is LOUD and will catch people's attention every time it's flown. The sound is annoying and the LAST thing you want to be happening during intimate parts of the wedding. The Bride/Groom (really the BRIDE) needs to be the FOCUS of the day and people will instinctively look UP at the drone. Some become totally transfixed on it and ignore the event at hand totally.
D) You can NOT fly directly over any person except yourself and anyone directly involved with the safe operation of the aircraft. Not even over a pinky toe.
E) The amount of risk for injury, incident, distraction you bring to an already TENSE and STRESSFUL situation is just not worth it unless you are well compensated. It gets UGLY in a heart beat when dealing with an unhappy wedding party/guest.

Lastly.... the odds of there ever being some type of Official/FAA interaction from such a Drone Use is very low unless somethin goes wrong. At that point you've opened yourself up to a ton of liability etc that you clearly don't want or need.

IMHO you're much better off leaving the drone at home or somewhere and skipping the idea of Droning at the wedding.

I'm speaking from an official stand point on the not able to hobby for someone else. As I'm an FAA Safety Team Representative & Drone Pro (Charlotte NC Region & West) I'm one of the people who could be called out if there was an incident etc involving a drone, at least in my region anyway.

@Phantomrain.org I see your point but it's flawed. I'll be more than happy to discuss this topic and provide documentation if needed. You can NOT hobby for someone else at all.

This was an excellent view point on the event. its why i suggested the 1 video i do like of the church when it empty which is the fly over in an out without any people . That Intent is a little tricky , but I see where the OWN benefit plays a huge role before being given. So INTENT is very tricky but I agree with everything else.

I remember filming the kids illegally climbing the cliffs and the ranger asking me to stop flying so they can focus on not falling. I get it.

 

[drone_dh]

Well said and I already decided, based on what I read here, that I was NOT going to take the thing to the wedding. However, I might get my nephew and new bride out to one of the many lakes around the venue, for some footage of ME for MY enjoyment (hopefully I am learning, LOL). This would, of course, be away from the ceremony and people.
I really agree with a wedding being a tense time, and a buzzing bee above everyone is probably going to set someone off...
Thanks to all again, I try to be a good student and learn from my questions and the answers put forth!

 

[Deleted Member 997]

Well said and I already decided, based on what I read here, that I was NOT going to take the thing to the wedding. However, I might get my nephew and new bride out to one of the many lakes around the venue, for some footage of ME for MY enjoyment (hopefully I am learning, LOL). This would, of course, be away from the ceremony and people.
I really agree with a wedding being a tense time, and a buzzing bee above everyone is probably going to set someone off...
Thanks to all again, I try to be a good student and learn from my questions and the answers put forth!

Smart decision, but it's up to you. It's not a question of your skills. You never know what the aircraft will do, and it hurting someone, then your in court.. not worth it. Enjoy the wedding and take them somewhere to enjoy it!

 

[drone_dh]

You guys are gonna love this... I packed my new M2Z all the way to NH over the weekend. First off, my nephew forgot to even ask about flying the wedding, so strike one. I offered to take them out to some nice place to get some vid of them, they didn't have any time for it. So, offered to my niece to get some of her and her husband, nada. My brother was there, same thing, nah, no time.
The trees were just turning, it was brilliant with green, bright yellows and reds. And, to add more salt to my wounds, the wedding was on top of this huge hill, a valley on either side. The trees were phenomenally pretty, but of course I did NOT bring the M2Z to the wedding. It would have given some absolutely epic video. So, I hauled it back home without powering the thing on. Yeah, I feel stupid. I'm going to go over to the beach and get some video this weekend I suppose.