HOA demands that I stop flying drones in the neighborhood. Need advice

karlblessing · Feb 21, 2023

zeusfl said:
I guess the trick will be HOE property end on the land. Once you take off from your property 100FT - 150FT up is FAA problem sices they can not rule airspace.

There is not the difference between lunch from outside the neighborhood and flyover.

Pretty sure even 2 inches off the ground is still FAAs juristiction

Daytona500 · Feb 21, 2023

LoudThunder said:
You are not just governed by the by-laws of the HOA and the rules and rugulations as estableished by the FAA, but also by State Law. Below is a link to a commonly referenced collections of the Florida Laws, however a more concise review might be in order…

Drone Laws in Florida (2024) - UAV Coach

A list of drone regulations and links for people flying drones in Florida.

uavcoach.com

Now, of interest are two laws governing the flying of Drone in Florida…

One, HB 1027 // 2017 Prohibits local regulations from limiting the use of Drone and restricts that to the sate legislature…

However, the HOA is probably very concerned with the Camera on board and this state law severely limits what you can photograph and video tape…

SB 766 // 2015 prohibits the use of a drone to capture an image of privately owned property or the owner, tenant, or occupant of such property without consent if a reasonable expectation of privacy exists. And I will tell you now, even as a Part 107 Licensed Drone Pilot, I would be very upset to have a drone flying slowly over my property, with the pilot "snooping" or videotaping me in my yard…

My final thoughts are based on how you might fly your new toy, the DJI FPV, and this is based on how I've seen these drone flown… As you mentioned, when you flew your Mavic 3 and Mini 3 Pro, there were no issues, and that is probably because these are basically cinematic drones, they fly high and slow… However, the FPVs are very often flown Fast, Law, and in a very Acrobatic Way, Swoops, Loops, Flips, etc…

Inquiring Mind Want to Know…

Town of Defuniak Springs—Municipal Law // 2016
This city ordinance prohibits drones from being flown over public or private property without the owner’s consent.
good luck with that ONE

Daytona500 · Feb 21, 2023

been flying in my neighborhood for 6 years never bored always something interesting to see and I fly almost every day

FLDave · Feb 21, 2023

anotherlab said:
The OP mentioned in his first post that he believed this all started with the "excessive noise" (his words) from his DJI FPV drone. He was flying it in his neighborhood. That's going to be more intrusive than flying a cinematic drone 100 up in the air.

At this point, his best chance is to meet with the HOA board and see if there is any common ground that they could arrive at. if he goes the litigation route, he loses time, money, and relationships with other neighbors. I would start off by offering to educate anyone in the HOA on what the drone sees. Also, provide pictures to anyone that wants one. This is one of the times when “you get more flies with honey than with vinegar” will work for you.

In an HOA a member generally doesn't have an option to meet with the board; that's not how HOA businesses are run. Generally a manager or management company will manage the affairs of the Association, including violation notices. Responses must be in accordance with the provisions of Covenants and Restrictions and other Association documents. The OP most adhere to those documents and provisions, including responses to a violation notice.

anotherlab · Feb 21, 2023

FLDave said:
In an HOA a member generally doesn't have an option to meet with the board; that's not how HOA businesses are run. Generally a manager or management company will manage the affairs of the Association, including violation notices. Responses must be in accordance with the provisions of Covenants and Restrictions and other Association documents. The OP most adhere to those documents and provisions, including responses to a violation notice.

That is not always true about meeting with the board. That will depend on the HOA covenant and the people who make up the HOA board and also the relationship that OP may have with members of the board. At our HOA meetings, all members have the opportunity to speak with the board privately before the meeting starts and to ask questions at a designated time during the meeting.

For responding to violations, he has to follow the rules and regulations of the HOA. He agreed to abide by the HOA when he moved in.

The OP can reach out to HOA board members directly. It doesn't have to be an official meeting for him to offer to show members of the HOA how drones work and what they can and can not see. If he can show the cinematic drones are not a nuisance and agree to stop flying the FPV within the HOA, he might have a chance. If he has already antagonized the board members, then he'll be fighting an uphill battle.

FLDave · Feb 21, 2023

karlblessing said:
Pretty sure even 2 inches off the ground is still FAAs juristiction

2 inches in the air may be FAA but activities while standing on HOA property is HOA jurisdiction.

anotherlab · Feb 23, 2023

karlblessing said:
Pretty sure even 2 inches off the ground is still FAAs juristiction

This isn't an issue of FAA jurisdiction for the OP. @solidhouse wrote that his HOA cited their nuisance rules. He said that this happened after he flew his FPV through his neighbor and thinks it was the excessive noise.

shawgod · Feb 23, 2023

Daytona500 said:
Town of Defuniak Springs—Municipal Law // 2016
This city ordinance prohibits drones from being flown over public or private property without the owner’s consent.
good luck with that ONE

So you are saying that airplanes are not allowed to fly over peoples property either? The airspace above peoples property is open to all pilots. A property landowner does not own the airspace above their property. If they're being harassed by a drone they can call the police or the FAA. But like any other flying object a drone is a aircraft and can fly over peoples homes.

MS Coast · Feb 23, 2023

shawgod said:
So you are saying that airplanes are not allowed to fly over peoples property either? The airspace above peoples property is open to all pilots. A property landowner does not own the airspace above their property. If they're being harassed by a drone they can call the police or the FAA. But like any other flying object a drone is a aircraft and can fly over peoples homes.

No, he said, "good luck with that ONE," suggesting that the city would not be prevail if the ordinance was challenged.

TonyPHX · Feb 23, 2023

The HOA can pound sand on this one. They are opening themselves up to liability to try to enforce this on one person....

anotherlab · Feb 23, 2023

TonyPHX said:
The HOA can pound sand on this one. They are opening themselves up to liability to try to enforce this on one person....

If @solidhouse went that route, he runs the risk of the HOA placing a lien on his house. Depending on how the HOA covenant was written, he may be responsible for the legal fees incurred with the placement of the lien. That alone can cost a fair amount of money because the HOA is probably going to have its attorney place the lien. When we contact our attorney for HOA matters, the clock starts running immediately at $375/hr.

If the HOA rules and regulations have any rules on nuisances, the wording of those rules would determine liability - not based on them sending the notice to one person. The original OP (@solidhouse) should speak with a lawyer before trying to fight this or doing what he wrote about "going stealth".

This is just my opinion as a layperson, but if he was served with a notice and he continues with the same behavior, they are just going to come at him harder. There are not too many activities where you can stand in your front yard while wearing FPV goggles. If he tries flying the FPV and he's trying to avoid detection by being in the backyard, he's running the risk that the person or persons who reported him the first time would report him to the police or FAA.

He would be better off not fighting his HOA and trying to work with them for some sort of accommodation.

shawgod · Feb 23, 2023

MS Coast said:
No, he said, "good luck with that ONE," suggesting that the city would not be prevail if the ordinance was challenged.

No this whole thing is about the airspace above his neighborhood and the HOA having a hissy fit over it? Am I correct? Well do they throw fits when an airplane flys over their neighborhood? Does the HOA contact the FAA to get a No Fly Zone over their neighborhood? Absolutely Not! A drone is an aircraft, and flying it is legal as long as it is not in restricted airspace. As long as you are not spying into your neighbors home or invading their privacy you should be fine. The HOA has no jurisdiction on this. Tell them to take it up with the FAA.

FLDave · Feb 23, 2023

shawgod said:
No this whole thing is about the airspace above his neighborhood and the HOA having a hissy fit over it? Am I correct? Well do they throw fits when an airplane flys over their neighborhood? Does the HOA contact the FAA to get a No Fly Zone over their neighborhood? Absolutely Not! A drone is an aircraft, and flying it is legal as long as it is not in restricted airspace. As long as you are not spying into your neighbors home or invading their privacy you should be fine. The HOA has no jurisdiction on this. Tell them to take it up with the FAA.

The violation wasn't about airspace; it wasn't about what is permitted in the airspace. The resident violated a "nuisance" regulation with excessive noise. The HOA regulations were part of the covenants and restrictions the resident accepted by buying into the Association.

shawgod · Feb 23, 2023

FLDave said:
The violation wasn't about airspace; it wasn't about what is permitted in the airspace. The resident violated a "nuisance" regulation with excessive noise. The HOA regulations were part of the covenants and restrictions the resident accepted by buying into the Association.

Then they better start complaining about automobiles, Motorcycles, and the airplanes that fly above their neighborhood. Because these all could be violations of a noise ordinance as well.

anotherlab · Feb 23, 2023

shawgod said:
Then they better start complaining about automobiles, Motorcycles, and the airplanes that fly above their neighborhood. Because these all could be violations of a noise ordinance as well.

According to the OP, @solidhouse, the HOA never used the term "noise". He did, but they used the term "nuisance".

ATVs are legal vehicles, but HOAs can and will ban them, My HOA doesn't allow you to park RVs on the streets or driveways.

MS Coast · Feb 23, 2023

TonyPHX said:
The HOA can pound sand on this one. They are opening themselves up to liability to try to enforce this on one person....

You have information that suggests that the HOA is allowing people other than the OP to operate drones without complaint?

LoudThunder · Feb 23, 2023

Hasn't this posting run its course? Who is right; who is wrong? It's all moot until it goes to court. You can say that the "FAA controls all Air…" and you can say the "HOA controls what happens on the ground…" But it all comes down to who will enforce what… Who has the deepest pockets… Who has the biggest dog in the fight… Who will "cut their nose to spite their face…

So many are right up to a point and so many are wrong, up to a point…

When you get between the rock and the hard place, you usually get crushed…

And folks wonder how the world got to be the S#~T Hole it is today and it's because everyone has to win… In reality, we all lose!

Isn't it time to close down this Topic?