HOA drone rules, how to educate them without putting a target on my back

[shb]

I would move a couple of miles from that development, and then fly over it every day, and bug the sss out of the residents.

 

[Don Testme]

Below is part of an email sent out to all homeowners at a community of nearly 2500 homes in AZ. The general manager sends these emails out weekly as a "This Week ..." update for all residents.
I have my part 107, but don't fly in my neighborhood. However, there are vast areas of open space (desert) very close (nearly adjacent) to my home where I fly sometimes. I mainly fly in remote locations that I travel and/or hike to, where it is legal to go and legal to fly. I don't have a problem educating people that are around where I'd like to fly, but I generally won't do it when there are many people, or people that look like they will pull out a gun. We do have open carry here in AZ.
I'd like to help educate the gm, the board, and the residents, however, I'm not a great communicator. I would likely end up putting a target on my own back. My current plan is to ignore everything they say, and simply avoid flying in my neighborhood. This gm is also currently planning the installation of new cameras around the community that include audio recording. He is disregarding the many residents that are against his plan by saying they won't listen to the audio unless necessary.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

"Drones: It's been a while since the topic of drones has been discussed. Recently, however, a resident reached out to us asking about a drone that flew over their home one evening. Because of this, here's a review of the Association's guidelines for drones or small unmanned aircraft systems. For this purpose, the term “drone” is used to describe any unmanned device or toy, including remote-controlled or autonomous small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), kites, or vehicles, whether operated for recreation or commercial purposes. The intent of this rule is to ensure the safety, privacy, and enjoyment of members and their property. Within Residential Settings - The use of drones within a residential setting, especially those equipped with cameras or other sensors, has a high potential of creating noise nuisances, unwanted trespasses, and invasions of privacy. The use of any drone must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The use of drones within this tract shall be restricted to the owner’s property and shall not: create an unreasonable sound nuisance; be operated within 25 feet of a vehicle; be operated before sunrise or after sunset; enter or fly above the property of other residents without their expressed permission; be used to view or record other residents or their property; result in the collection of private data or images for publication or posting, without the permission of the people or property owners affected; be used on or above common spaces or easements; lose visual contact. The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner. Owners and occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy which must not be violated. Persons under age 16 operating drones shall be actively supervised by parents or adult guardians during their use to ensure compliance with these rules and FAA requirements. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.

Within Common Area Settings: The use of drones within a common area setting must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. The use must first be approved by the General Manager or Assistant General Manager. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file."

HOAs only course of action is to place liens on homeowners who violate their off the cuff "mandatory" rules. Should you ever want to sell your house and they put a lien on it for some drone offense they made up, a judge would most likely lift the lien if tried in court.

 

[anotherlab]

HOAs only course of action is to place liens on homeowners who violate their off the cuff "mandatory" rules. Should you ever want to sell your house and they put a lien on it for some drone offense they made up, a judge would most likely lift the lien if tried in court.

While IANAL, I wouldn't count on a judge lifting an HOA lien to allow a home sale. Lien laws vary from state to state, but an HOA has to go to court to have a lien placed on a home. A judge is not going to lift a lien because it was for "some drone offense".

 

[Don Testme]

While IANAL, I wouldn't count on a judge lifting an HOA lien to allow a home sale. Lien laws vary from state to state, but an HOA has to go to court to have a lien placed on a home. A judge is not going to lift a lien because it was for "some drone offense".

If the person goes to court and argues against the lien being put on the home for a drone offense, do you think the drone pilot/home owner would have a chance at stopping the lien from being placed in the first place?

 

[anotherlab]

If the person goes to court and argues against the lien being put on the home for a drone offense, do you think the drone pilot/home owner would have a chance at stopping the lien from being placed in the first place?

That's not how liens are placed by HOA's. When a HOA member goes into arrears for non-payment of dues or fines, the HOA can go to court to place a lien against the monies owed by the homeowner. This can (as defined by the state that HOA resides in) also include reasonable legal fees incurred during the process of placing the lien. By the time the HOA has filed to place a lien, the issue is no longer about the drone, it's about the money. A judge is not going to lift a lien in that situation.

The point to remember is the lien is not about the drone, it's about money owed. The time for the homeowner to dispute the fine was when it was applied by the HOA. Ignoring it is not a legal defense and a judge is not going to provide a legal remedy because the homeowner didn't like the rule. It comes down to the homeowner having already agreed to by abide the HOA's Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&R) by owning a home in the HOA.

A lot of this will depend on how the drone restriction was worded by the HOA. If they define it as a nuisance, that's it. You can either work from within to get the rule changed, stop flying within the grounds of the HOA, or move. If they ban drones because of noise, then you can push back because landscaping equipment is going to be louder. You can either threaten to sue the HOA over unfair practices or request that every noise violation be fined. From lawn mowers, leaf blowers, to motorcycles; they will all be louder than a DJI drone.

 

[Don Testme]

That's not how liens are placed by HOA's. When a HOA member goes into arrears for non-payment of dues or fines, the HOA can go to court to place a lien against the monies owed by the homeowner. This can (as defined by the state that HOA resides in) also include reasonable legal fees incurred during the process of placing the lien. By the time the HOA has filed to place a lien, the issue is no longer about the drone, it's about the money. A judge is not going to lift a lien in that situation.

The point to remember is the lien is not about the drone, it's about money owed. The time for the homeowner to dispute the fine was when it was applied by the HOA. Ignoring it is not a legal defense and a judge is not going to provide a legal remedy because the homeowner didn't like the rule. It comes down to the homeowner having already agreed to by abide the HOA's Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&R) by owning a home in the HOA.

A lot of this will depend on how the drone restriction was worded by the HOA. If they define it as a nuisance, that's it. You can either work from within to get the rule changed, stop flying within the grounds of the HOA, or move. If they ban drones because of noise, then you can push back because landscaping equipment is going to be louder. You can either threaten to sue the HOA over unfair practices or request that every noise violation be fined. From lawn mowers, leaf blowers, to motorcycles; they will all be louder than a DJI drone.

Thank you very much for the incite. I have a clearer picture now. Thanks again.

I hate HOAs. I was determined never to live in one again. and haven't lived in one for over 15 years now. Yay for me.

 

[DARKSeifer]

It's not really a good idea to warn in advance about your drone, they'll just freak out.

Then for example someone else flies his drone over your area, maybe in a long range flight, stops too long over a house, and they'll put it on you.

Always fly under the radar, if someone enters Karen mode, it's better to deal with them one at a time.

If you want to "educate" them, just search for a near and exposed spot and perform 100% legal flights there on a daily/weekly basis, and they'll end up engaging you or at least, they'll see both you and the drone, so they'll figure it out by themselves.... but I wouldn't recommend it either.

Drones trigger privacy concerns and the flight being 100% legal won't help, so the best approach is lay low and fly under the radar. You'll be able to fly as much as you want wherever you want without the need to deal with karens.

 

[Georgerom]

Thank you very much for the incite. I have a clearer picture now. Thanks again.

I hate HOAs. I was determined never to live in one again. and haven't lived in one for over 15 years now. Yay for me.

That is a big BS. Tell them to wipe their a$$es with that. Also, tell them to ban all mowers and any equipment that makes noises because you are sick of it. Ban all the loud cars from your neighbors and ban all the airplanes and helicopters that may fly over your property. Made a list of those things and stick it with super glue to their door. FAA is the king so far and your privacy is down the pipe after you install the Google Home / Alexa and ring cameras at your door etc. Any smart hacker can access those gadgets. Tell them to ban all these devices for the sake of privacy.
No worries a lot of Karens will disagree but you can fight all the made up-regulation and policies in court and you will win 100% in less the judge it is your neighbor.

 

[New England Droning]

I'm in a HOA and have been flying my mini2 from my deck and I wasn't too worried about it. But I just upgraded to the Mavic 3 Pro... That is a game-changer in a big way! It is so much louder than the mini2... I do live on the edge of woods so I take off and climb fast and head out over the woods... If I was in the middle of the complex I would not fly it over my house because of how close the neighbors would be.
My place currently is much more permissive (so far) and I don't want to poke the bear...

 

[JDubyaM]

"Under the radar" best advice I've read in this thread. I have State Land directly behind my home, but don't fly from my property and instead walk, bicycle or motorcycle my Mini 3 Pro a 1/2 mile away from my HOA neighborhood to launch. Inconvenient? Yes, but just not worth the hassle explaining regs and jousting with the HOA. As noted, if everybody knows I have a Drone, I'll be the 1st person contacted if someone gets their panties in a wad about a perceived " infraction" of their privacy, then my time will be consumed with defending myself, even though it wasn't me. Yep, I'm staying " Under the Radar".

 

[teejay2024]

My nextdoor app and local FB groups have been discussing drone flights for a few years now. Everyone thinks they are being spied on, their privacy invaded, and their quality of life directly affected by drones it seems. Due to that attitude I try to be very discreet on the rare times I fly in my HOA neighborhood.
I have a half acre lot backed up against a greenbelt, so in the 7 years I've lived here the flights outside of my fence have been rare. I don't fly the DJI FPV or Avata beyond my property line due to the noise bringing attention to the drones. My fence is lined with thickly planted 20 ft Thujas, and I stay below their tops, virtually invisible to the neighbors. I will fly my Mini 2 and Mini 3 in the greenbelt, and during the weekday when kids are in school and most adults are at work, I will occassionally fly laps around the block at about 100 ft agl, following the street. Never an issue.
Until 2 weeks ago. I purchased a Mavic 3 and took it on its maiden flight in my backyard in the middle of the day. I flew out of my yard over the greenbelt, down the greenbelt about a block, back up, stopped behind a cul du sac down the street from me. I was still over the greenbelt, but a few hundred feet behind the houses in the cul du sac, and at 273 ft agl. But this drone is noisy enough that a neighbor in his yard in the cul du sac heard it. As I hovered behind his house just long enough to try the 28x tele lens, trying to zoom in on Mount Rainer. I was stopped less than a minute, hovering at that height. Before heading home I walked around to the front of my house to keep VLOS, intending to land at my home point in the backyard. Long story short, the neighbor from the cul du sac had jumped in his truck and followed my drone. He yelled at me from the road, shouting that I can expect to get my drone shot down if I hover over his house again, I told him I wasn't over his house, was far behind it, and he said "yeah, close enought to get shot down, I'm just sayin' then he sped off.
On the advice from some of my local drone buddies I called the sheriff. I live in an unincorporated neighborhood just south of Seattle. Sheriff deputy happens to be a part 107 pilot and felt the threat, though indirect, warranted a report number in case it escalated. As he said "just be aware you have a bit of a crazy neighbor who just self identified as paranoid, try not to fly near "his" cul du sac." The neighbor across the street heard him yell his threat as well, and she wasn't even aware I had drones.
Anyway, I'm keeping a low profile and hoping the HOA doesn't try to ban drones. I thought of reporting the veiled threat to the HOA board, but don't want be responsible for any Drone discussions by the board...
The Mavic 3 will not fly in Sterling Park again....lol.

I hope your friendly, neighborhood a-hole gets educated that it is a felony to shoot down a drone. It's classified as an aircraft by the FAA and therefore protected under title 18, section
32 of United States code.

 

[Neal W]

HOAs only course of action is to place liens on homeowners who violate their off the cuff "mandatory" rules.

Not necessarily. How the HOA Board handles violations is controlled by their Governing Documents. In our HOA, a rules violation owner is sent a notice with 30 days to correct. Then a possible fine. Then a lien.

I'm on the Board and the only time we've ever filed a lien is for non-payment of assessments. And then only serious non-payment.

 

[Neal W]

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

I'm on our HOA Board and a Past President. I fly my UAS (Air 3) in the community and post some of my photos and videos on our community Facebook page. I've never gotten any pushback, and lots of Likes and positive comments on my shots.

The rules of an HOA are governed by Federal, State, and Local laws, along with the Governing Documents of the Community. The rules that you posted may not be legal nor enforceable, although the Board may try. You may have some sort of appeal or other recourse before attorneys get involved.

Do not let this get to the confrontational stage. In our community, we have monthly opportunities for homeowners to provide feedback and comments at the end of our Board meetings. Find a way to talk to your Board and get these rules reconsidered. A confrontation is going to be a pain in the *** for everyone.