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HOA drone rules, how to educate them without putting a target on my back

boxodonuts

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Below is part of an email sent out to all homeowners at a community of nearly 2500 homes in AZ. The general manager sends these emails out weekly as a "This Week ..." update for all residents.
I have my part 107, but don't fly in my neighborhood. However, there are vast areas of open space (desert) very close (nearly adjacent) to my home where I fly sometimes. I mainly fly in remote locations that I travel and/or hike to, where it is legal to go and legal to fly. I don't have a problem educating people that are around where I'd like to fly, but I generally won't do it when there are many people, or people that look like they will pull out a gun. We do have open carry here in AZ.
I'd like to help educate the gm, the board, and the residents, however, I'm not a great communicator. I would likely end up putting a target on my own back. My current plan is to ignore everything they say, and simply avoid flying in my neighborhood. This gm is also currently planning the installation of new cameras around the community that include audio recording. He is disregarding the many residents that are against his plan by saying they won't listen to the audio unless necessary.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

"Drones: It's been a while since the topic of drones has been discussed. Recently, however, a resident reached out to us asking about a drone that flew over their home one evening. Because of this, here's a review of the Association's guidelines for drones or small unmanned aircraft systems. For this purpose, the term “drone” is used to describe any unmanned device or toy, including remote-controlled or autonomous small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), kites, or vehicles, whether operated for recreation or commercial purposes. The intent of this rule is to ensure the safety, privacy, and enjoyment of members and their property. Within Residential Settings - The use of drones within a residential setting, especially those equipped with cameras or other sensors, has a high potential of creating noise nuisances, unwanted trespasses, and invasions of privacy. The use of any drone must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The use of drones within this tract shall be restricted to the owner’s property and shall not: create an unreasonable sound nuisance; be operated within 25 feet of a vehicle; be operated before sunrise or after sunset; enter or fly above the property of other residents without their expressed permission; be used to view or record other residents or their property; result in the collection of private data or images for publication or posting, without the permission of the people or property owners affected; be used on or above common spaces or easements; lose visual contact. The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner. Owners and occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy which must not be violated. Persons under age 16 operating drones shall be actively supervised by parents or adult guardians during their use to ensure compliance with these rules and FAA requirements. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.

Within Common Area Settings: The use of drones within a common area setting must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. The use must first be approved by the General Manager or Assistant General Manager. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.
"
 
Rather complicated GUIDELINES which appear to not be part of any official REGULATIONS of the association. Totally wrong about private air space above a private residence. It really does complicate flying opportunities, even if unenforceable.
My suggestion is to befriend one of the association board members as they board of directors are the ones who set policy. Also make sure you read and understand all of the covenants and restrictions of the association as they are the basis for establishing rules and regulations. Get a board member on your side and let the director move forward.
 
you can try to "educate" members of a HOA....but that's almost a certain path to dispute. Just being right about a state law that makes a HOA rule subordinate, also seems like a path to dispute. And if you're a resident of an HOA community, that means you'd be in dispute with your neighbors

I am not suggesting you allow the HOA to implement rules that violate the rights of a drone pilot. But I am suggesting that sometimes the path of least resistance is by far the less stressful path (that path also works well with a wife.:))

if it's simple for you to find flying opportunities that wouldn't potentially put you at odds with your neighbors, that might be a much easier use of your time that potentially trying to educate people not interested in being educated
 
Many HOA's have retained legal counsel. You could learn who that is for the association and work with the person to educate about FAA airspace rules. There will still be many alternate means for the HOA to restrict drone flying.
 
Below is part of an email sent out to all homeowners at a community of nearly 2500 homes in AZ. The general manager sends these emails out weekly as a "This Week ..." update for all residents.
I have my part 107, but don't fly in my neighborhood. However, there are vast areas of open space (desert) very close (nearly adjacent) to my home where I fly sometimes. I mainly fly in remote locations that I travel and/or hike to, where it is legal to go and legal to fly. I don't have a problem educating people that are around where I'd like to fly, but I generally won't do it when there are many people, or people that look like they will pull out a gun. We do have open carry here in AZ.
I'd like to help educate the gm, the board, and the residents, however, I'm not a great communicator. I would likely end up putting a target on my own back. My current plan is to ignore everything they say, and simply avoid flying in my neighborhood. This gm is also currently planning the installation of new cameras around the community that include audio recording. He is disregarding the many residents that are against his plan by saying they won't listen to the audio unless necessary.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

"Drones: It's been a while since the topic of drones has been discussed. Recently, however, a resident reached out to us asking about a drone that flew over their home one evening. Because of this, here's a review of the Association's guidelines for drones or small unmanned aircraft systems. For this purpose, the term “drone” is used to describe any unmanned device or toy, including remote-controlled or autonomous small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), kites, or vehicles, whether operated for recreation or commercial purposes. The intent of this rule is to ensure the safety, privacy, and enjoyment of members and their property. Within Residential Settings - The use of drones within a residential setting, especially those equipped with cameras or other sensors, has a high potential of creating noise nuisances, unwanted trespasses, and invasions of privacy. The use of any drone must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The use of drones within this tract shall be restricted to the owner’s property and shall not: create an unreasonable sound nuisance; be operated within 25 feet of a vehicle; be operated before sunrise or after sunset; enter or fly above the property of other residents without their expressed permission; be used to view or record other residents or their property; result in the collection of private data or images for publication or posting, without the permission of the people or property owners affected; be used on or above common spaces or easements; lose visual contact. The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner. Owners and occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy which must not be violated. Persons under age 16 operating drones shall be actively supervised by parents or adult guardians during their use to ensure compliance with these rules and FAA requirements. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.

Within Common Area Settings: The use of drones within a common area setting must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. The use must first be approved by the General Manager or Assistant General Manager. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.
"
Sheesh. I live in East Mesa & live too close to Falcon Field Airport to fly from my backyard. So I fly my Mini 2 from parking lots & pull-outs/ins along Bush Highway/the Apache Trail/Peralta Rd in Tonto National Forest which is mostly Class G airspace. I usually fly at 20-30m altitude & most people just wave at it if they see it because I always have two strobes on while flying so it's visible in the sky.
 
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I’ve always felt a bit sorry for anyone that has to contend with HOA’s. Just last week we had to move two large saguaros for a homeowner because of a setback discrepancy on where to build a new garage. Cost the homeowner 3500.00
Pima County had issued a building permit with a 10 foot setback limit. HOA stepped in and made him go with a 30 foot setback limit which moved the new building into the area where the two saguaros were. All this at the end of a dead end street where no other homeowner would even see the 20 foot difference.
 
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Wait until Amazon starts flying in drone deliveries. There's a drone delivery test neighborhood in Maricopa county right now & all the residents do is complain about the noise!
 
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You need to use very simple terms. The average person has zero clue what a “107” is. You need to say something along the lines of “Federal Commercial Drone License, issued by the FAA”. While we all understand the technical terms the average person in your HOA does not.
 
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My nextdoor app and local FB groups have been discussing drone flights for a few years now. Everyone thinks they are being spied on, their privacy invaded, and their quality of life directly affected by drones it seems. Due to that attitude I try to be very discreet on the rare times I fly in my HOA neighborhood.
I have a half acre lot backed up against a greenbelt, so in the 7 years I've lived here the flights outside of my fence have been rare. I don't fly the DJI FPV or Avata beyond my property line due to the noise bringing attention to the drones. My fence is lined with thickly planted 20 ft Thujas, and I stay below their tops, virtually invisible to the neighbors. I will fly my Mini 2 and Mini 3 in the greenbelt, and during the weekday when kids are in school and most adults are at work, I will occassionally fly laps around the block at about 100 ft agl, following the street. Never an issue.
Until 2 weeks ago. I purchased a Mavic 3 and took it on its maiden flight in my backyard in the middle of the day. I flew out of my yard over the greenbelt, down the greenbelt about a block, back up, stopped behind a cul du sac down the street from me. I was still over the greenbelt, but a few hundred feet behind the houses in the cul du sac, and at 273 ft agl. But this drone is noisy enough that a neighbor in his yard in the cul du sac heard it. As I hovered behind his house just long enough to try the 28x tele lens, trying to zoom in on Mount Rainer. I was stopped less than a minute, hovering at that height. Before heading home I walked around to the front of my house to keep VLOS, intending to land at my home point in the backyard. Long story short, the neighbor from the cul du sac had jumped in his truck and followed my drone. He yelled at me from the road, shouting that I can expect to get my drone shot down if I hover over his house again, I told him I wasn't over his house, was far behind it, and he said "yeah, close enought to get shot down, I'm just sayin' then he sped off.
On the advice from some of my local drone buddies I called the sheriff. I live in an unincorporated neighborhood just south of Seattle. Sheriff deputy happens to be a part 107 pilot and felt the threat, though indirect, warranted a report number in case it escalated. As he said "just be aware you have a bit of a crazy neighbor who just self identified as paranoid, try not to fly near "his" cul du sac." The neighbor across the street heard him yell his threat as well, and she wasn't even aware I had drones.
Anyway, I'm keeping a low profile and hoping the HOA doesn't try to ban drones. I thought of reporting the veiled threat to the HOA board, but don't want be responsible for any Drone discussions by the board...
The Mavic 3 will not fly in Sterling Park again....lol.
 
The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner.

There is no such airspace.

Right to privacy, and noise are however; not governed by the FAA; and are entirely different matters.

I'd say it's best just to find a different place to fly.
 
Below is part of an email sent out to all homeowners at a community of nearly 2500 homes in AZ. The general manager sends these emails out weekly as a "This Week ..." update for all residents.
I have my part 107, but don't fly in my neighborhood. However, there are vast areas of open space (desert) very close (nearly adjacent) to my home where I fly sometimes. I mainly fly in remote locations that I travel and/or hike to, where it is legal to go and legal to fly. I don't have a problem educating people that are around where I'd like to fly, but I generally won't do it when there are many people, or people that look like they will pull out a gun. We do have open carry here in AZ.
I'd like to help educate the gm, the board, and the residents, however, I'm not a great communicator. I would likely end up putting a target on my own back. My current plan is to ignore everything they say, and simply avoid flying in my neighborhood. This gm is also currently planning the installation of new cameras around the community that include audio recording. He is disregarding the many residents that are against his plan by saying they won't listen to the audio unless necessary.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

"Drones: It's been a while since the topic of drones has been discussed. Recently, however, a resident reached out to us asking about a drone that flew over their home one evening. Because of this, here's a review of the Association's guidelines for drones or small unmanned aircraft systems. For this purpose, the term “drone” is used to describe any unmanned device or toy, including remote-controlled or autonomous small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), kites, or vehicles, whether operated for recreation or commercial purposes. The intent of this rule is to ensure the safety, privacy, and enjoyment of members and their property. Within Residential Settings - The use of drones within a residential setting, especially those equipped with cameras or other sensors, has a high potential of creating noise nuisances, unwanted trespasses, and invasions of privacy. The use of any drone must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The use of drones within this tract shall be restricted to the owner’s property and shall not: create an unreasonable sound nuisance; be operated within 25 feet of a vehicle; be operated before sunrise or after sunset; enter or fly above the property of other residents without their expressed permission; be used to view or record other residents or their property; result in the collection of private data or images for publication or posting, without the permission of the people or property owners affected; be used on or above common spaces or easements; lose visual contact. The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner. Owners and occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy which must not be violated. Persons under age 16 operating drones shall be actively supervised by parents or adult guardians during their use to ensure compliance with these rules and FAA requirements. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.

Within Common Area Settings: The use of drones within a common area setting must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. The use must first be approved by the General Manager or Assistant General Manager. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.
"
Forgive but what is an HOA? Great thread by the way and some very sensible responses. Good luck!
 
Forgive but what is an HOA? Great thread by the way and some very sensible responses. Good luck!
HOA is a generic representation of Home Owners Association which may be used to represent Property Owners Association, Residents Cooperative Association, all of which are business corporations whose members agree to reside in a defined legal boundary. The association is bound by covenants and restrictions which define permitted and restricted activities within the community property boundaries. All members/residents accept the restrictions when purchasing the property with the community.
 
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Below is part of an email sent out to all homeowners at a community of nearly 2500 homes in AZ. The general manager sends these emails out weekly as a "This Week ..." update for all residents.
I have my part 107, but don't fly in my neighborhood. However, there are vast areas of open space (desert) very close (nearly adjacent) to my home where I fly sometimes. I mainly fly in remote locations that I travel and/or hike to, where it is legal to go and legal to fly. I don't have a problem educating people that are around where I'd like to fly, but I generally won't do it when there are many people, or people that look like they will pull out a gun. We do have open carry here in AZ.
I'd like to help educate the gm, the board, and the residents, however, I'm not a great communicator. I would likely end up putting a target on my own back. My current plan is to ignore everything they say, and simply avoid flying in my neighborhood. This gm is also currently planning the installation of new cameras around the community that include audio recording. He is disregarding the many residents that are against his plan by saying they won't listen to the audio unless necessary.
I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this drone policy.
Oh, and if I could easily move out of this community, I would.

"Drones: It's been a while since the topic of drones has been discussed. Recently, however, a resident reached out to us asking about a drone that flew over their home one evening. Because of this, here's a review of the Association's guidelines for drones or small unmanned aircraft systems. For this purpose, the term “drone” is used to describe any unmanned device or toy, including remote-controlled or autonomous small Unmanned Aircraft Systems (sUAS), kites, or vehicles, whether operated for recreation or commercial purposes. The intent of this rule is to ensure the safety, privacy, and enjoyment of members and their property. Within Residential Settings - The use of drones within a residential setting, especially those equipped with cameras or other sensors, has a high potential of creating noise nuisances, unwanted trespasses, and invasions of privacy. The use of any drone must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The use of drones within this tract shall be restricted to the owner’s property and shall not: create an unreasonable sound nuisance; be operated within 25 feet of a vehicle; be operated before sunrise or after sunset; enter or fly above the property of other residents without their expressed permission; be used to view or record other residents or their property; result in the collection of private data or images for publication or posting, without the permission of the people or property owners affected; be used on or above common spaces or easements; lose visual contact. The airspace above a private residence, and below altitudes governed by the Federal Aviation Administration or other governmental agencies, is considered the private property of that owner. Owners and occupants have a reasonable expectation of privacy which must not be violated. Persons under age 16 operating drones shall be actively supervised by parents or adult guardians during their use to ensure compliance with these rules and FAA requirements. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.

Within Common Area Settings: The use of drones within a common area setting must comply with applicable local, state, and federal laws. The use must first be approved by the General Manager or Assistant General Manager. A drone’s operator must maintain direct control of the device and assumes liability for any damage their drone causes. The drone must be registered in the Administration office with a copy of the operator’s license and insurance on file.
"
Nothing will change until they are educated...properly. Find the FAA rules, print them and pass them out at the next HOA meeting.
 
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