I was arrested for flying a drone *updated with video*

[Lapeer20m]

Just referencing a OT question- I use this,

Just Press Record

but it’s illegal to record someone without their knowledge in Cali- check your local laws first before secretly recording cops or anyone else!

As for what happened to OP, it seems like the whole thing could’ve been diverted by going to the other flying area the first officer recommended, and then maybe going to the Park headquarters to talk to them about the rules. They may have intended the rules to exclude drones in the first place, however the printed rule was badly written or outdated and obviously caused some confusion between the officers and the OP.

I’ve avoided getting traffic tickets in my life just by being polite and apologizing, turning them into warnings. Definitely worth doing!

Just have to know, how much was the lawyer?

When I get pulled over, I am polite and apologize. The biggest difference is that when I get pulled over, I’ve typically been caught doing something wrong...like speeding.

In this case, I was not wrong. It’s a big problem when officers abuse their authority and act outside the law. The officer knew that flying drones is a perfectly lawful activity in the park and still chose to arrest me. Not for one second did he believe that i was in an airplane, or in a balloon, or in a parachute, which was a requirement for one to violate this park rule. He also held in his hands a copy of the state law that forbids officers from enforcing any local rules regarding the possession or operation of unmanned aircraft. This wasn’t a mistake. It was a bad apple choosing to abuse his position.

The officer was acting like a bully. I think most people would in my position would have chosen to plead guilty and pay the $25 fine.

I am fortunate enough to have available the necessary resources and connections to fix this problem. I don’t want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. I will continue to fight until the problem is fixed and any citizen can fly in the park without fear of harassment.

Flying drones in a park is a trivial matter. Detaining, searching, arresting, and confiscating property without reasonable suspicion or probable cause is a federal civil rights issue.

 

[DroningOn]

He didn't comply and had to run his mouth. He knew he was in the right so he just had to push the cops buttons. They have to deal with way too much of this crap these days. That was not the time to say show it to me in writing.

Wow indeed

 

[mlee]

Wow indeed

Yup... such a surprise.

 

[Lapeer20m]

He didn't comply and had to run his mouth. He knew he was in the right so he just had to push the cops buttons. They have to deal with way too much of this crap these days. That was not the time to say show it to me in writing.

I had already complied and landed mavic. In my opinion, 99 out of 100 cops would have handled this scenario much differently. I honestly believed he would read the words on the page and realize this rule clearly doesn’t apply. Or at least have a conversation about it.

Almost any officer would rather mail a ticket at a later date than put someone in handcuffs and confiscate their stuff only to realize later that they (the officer) are wrong.

Imagine getting stopped for jaywalking and an angry officer puts you in handcuffs and confiscated all your stuff,,,,including your cell phone, even after the officer opened the book and read the rule and realized the rule in question doesn’t actually prohibit jay walking.

Most people would be outraged by this behavior.

 

[Vigylance]

File a lawsuit for unlawful arrest. It is your right as an American.

 

[AMann]

When I get pulled over, I am polite and apologize. The biggest difference is that when I get pulled over, I’ve typically been caught doing something wrong...like speeding.

In this case, I was not wrong. It’s a big problem when officers abuse their authority and act outside the law. The officer knew that flying drones is a perfectly lawful activity in the park and still chose to arrest me. Not for one second did he believe that i was in an airplane, or in a balloon, or in a parachute, which was a requirement for one to violate this park rule. He also held in his hands a copy of the state law that forbids officers from enforcing any local rules regarding the possession or operation of unmanned aircraft. This wasn’t a mistake. It was a bad apple choosing to abuse his position.

The officer was acting like a bully. I think most people would in my position would have chosen to plead guilty and pay the $25 fine.

I am fortunate enough to have available the necessary resources and connections to fix this problem. I don’t want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. I will continue to fight until the problem is fixed and any citizen can fly in the park without fear of harassment.

Flying drones in a park is a trivial matter. Detaining, searching, arresting, and confiscating property without reasonable suspicion or probable cause is a federal civil rights issue.

Unfortunately, you were the one arrested and had to go through all that because the cops were definitely wrong in handcuffing you after you stopped flying and you didnt sound threatening or anything like that. They obviously thought there was a rule prohibiting drones, and that was the mistake. They do use an “attitude test” when talking with people to determine where it will go, and unfortunately the big bully element there as well as you found out with the second cop. He just wasn’t going to listen to you at all, so no matter how wrong he was, it just triggered his anger pointing it out.

I’m just saying that your time is more valuable than being bothered by people like that. We can’t change them, so just let them think they are right and have fun.

Now, after leaving the park, why didn’t you just go outside the gate and park boundary and fly above it from outside?

 

[mikemoose55]

I am seriously thinking about selling my drone and getting out all together. All this crap about turning the other cheek and being an ambassador for the sport is bull squirt. It seems every time there is a situation like this we pilots are guilty until proven innocent and guess what there never seems to be any proof ANYONE will accept at the time of the incident so the tag is guilty with no recourse.

in this case the police officer was wrong and continued to set the pilot up by follow-up searches just to provoke a situation that would justify their errant behavior. This is what gives law enforcement a bad name a couple of pizzed doff police officers who decide they have better things to do with their time than jack up some adolescent male with a toy. The charge of duty "to protect and serve" is not modified or diminished by a LEO's evaluation of a improper operation of a toy.
I am tired of being a part of a group of people who have their rights reduced because of their association with "a toy" or because they belong to a fringe group of people that most have yet to accept.

Here in this great country of America, as in many other countries too many sons and daughters of freedom have given their all to insure we are free and subject to equal justice.
The police officers were uneducated, stepping beyond their bounds and treated a law abiding citizen with total absence of equal rights. He was flying a drone not endangering anyone or himself.

NOW BEFORE YOU THINK I AM ANTI LAW OR ANTI COP or have an axe to grind or shouting power to the people understand my only son is a law enforcement officer (a street cop) of some 22 years. I have many friends and customers to my small business who are in law enforcement and I respect deeply the job they do every day but IMHO these officers were way out of their badges with the treatment of this pilot. Having fun should not be a crime unless it is a crime !!!!!!!!!!!!!
mikemoose55

 

[Lapeer20m]

Unfortunately, you were the one arrested and had to go through all that because the cops were definitely wrong in handcuffing you after you stopped flying and you didnt sound threatening or anything like that. They do use an “attitude test” when talking with people to determine where it will go, and there was also a big bully element there as well as you found out with the second cop. I’m just saying that your time is more valuable than being bothered by people like that. We can’t change them, so just let them think they are right and have fun.

Now, after leaving the park, why didn’t you just go outside the gate and park boundary and fly above it from outside?

Because I no longer had a drone....

 

[AMann]

Because I no longer had a drone....

Sorry, I meant if you had packed up before cop#1 called cop #2. I was just kidding though, cop #2 would have probably tazed you or something while you were flying because you were not complying with his unlawful orders.

 

[45er]

Police have a tough job, period. Of course, there are plenty of "jerks" that wear police uniforms but they are not in the majority. This guy might serve the public over in the Detroit ghettos where the real action is!

To the OP, if the policeman had have politely asked you to quit flying in the park as he might have perceived that you were endangering other park users (it's irrelevant whether or not you actually were, it might have been his perception), would you have quit flying or challenged his legal status?

 

[surftheisland]

Police have a tough job, period. Of course, there are plenty of "jerks" that wear police uniforms but they are not in the majority. This guy might serve the public over in the Detroit ghettos where the real action is!

To the OP, if the policeman had have politely asked you to quit flying in the park as he might have perceived that you were endangering other park users (it's irrelevant whether or not you actually were, it might have been his perception), would you have quit flying or challenged his legal status?

The point is the policeman don't how to read correctly. That's very dangerous.

 

[PhoebeSnow]

He didn't comply and had to run his mouth. He knew he was in the right so he just had to push the cops buttons. They have to deal with way too much of this crap these days. That was not the time to say show it to me in writing.

YEOW!!!!! I can't think of any better time to say "...show it to me in writing..." If the cop feels he was in violation of a local ordinance he had every right to ask him ON THE SPOT to show it to him. And if he didn't agree with the cop on his interpretation of it he also had the right to express his opinion. Where I can be sypathetic to what cops have to deal with this cop was looking to hard to victimize.

 

[Drgnfli]

I can finally talk about this now that the legal matter is settled.

Audio here:

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A few weeks ago, I was flying my mavic. An officer approached and told me drones are not allowed in the park. I was polite and told him that I’m pretty smart when it comes to drone law and I did not know it was illegal to fly here. I asked if he could show me where this rule was written. I’ll call him “good cop”

I already knew that a: there is no such rule, and b: even if there was, Michigan has a strong preemption law that prevents local units of government from enacting or enforcing any rule regarding the possession or operation of unmanned aircraft.

This officer called for backup. A second officer arrived. I’ll call him “bad cop.” He was pretty hostile and came towards me with a little
Booklet and said basically “it says right here, ascending or descending....” pointing at rule 23, which prohibits manned aircraft, manned hot air balloons, or manned parachutes from ascending or descending in the park.

I said “can I ask you a question?”

He said yes

“Am I in an airplane?”

That was it. He had me turn around and put my hands behind my back.

He searched me, and laughed when I told him I do not consent.

Then stuffed me in the back of a police car. They pulled me out after a few minutes and searched me again. I was able to hand them a copy of the state preemption law, which I was able to reach because it was in my back pocket. Then they stuffed me back in the patrol car.

My mavic and iPad were confiscated, and just to let me know who’s in charge, he took my personal cell phone too.

After about 30-40 minutes I was released with a misdemeanor citation for “unauthorized flying of drone in park” citing rule 23.

They kept all of my stuff. I was able to get my cell phone returned after a couple of days. I still haven’t gotten my mavic or iPad back.

All of the audio was recorded on my Apple Watch. I will post it here shortly.

I’m a 40 year old professional. I’ve never been in handcuffs before this.

View attachment 57583

View attachment 57584

Looks like to me you got arrested for a misdemeanor which the cops didn't have specific laws on the books for. Trouble is they can make your life a PIA if they force their 'wishes' on you - which that ---hole did. What gets me is the first cop did not have the correct info on the subject so he called a hard-nosed -rick on duty to come & push the situation. I have had that happen to me too! A sheriff's deputy came to the house to push a complaint from a friend in the neighborhood who had no clue what drone regs were for the neighborhood, township, county or state. He just came to chew my ***. If we don't stand up to the ___holes out there that have a "problem" with UAVs we will continue getting abused by uneducated law enforcement & neighbors who are still living in the eighteenth century. I wish I could come to the "picnic." FLY SAFE!
~

 

[Drgnfli]

Police have a job to do and we shouldn't question them.

If they don't know the LAWS, they should learn them or they are called Nazis.

 

[Drgnfli]

Two other things you could have done: Respectfully landed the drone and drive away without incident and then approach the proper authorities with the Genesee County Parks safety rules and show them Section XXIII and get everyone onboard and fly without incident going forward or , you could have gone before the judge without the expense of a lawyer and showed him Section XXIII and there is no way he wouldn’t have dismissed the citation.
You’ve kind of opened the door for being on their radar for anything going forward. Who needs that. Just sayin.

No! The cop was a smart *** with a bully complex & pushed it. This was not a hairy situation! A person flying a harmless drone all by himself without weapons is not 'disrespectful'. As soon as Lapeer did not bough down & grovel for the bully cop, he was in "trouble." Maybe a little more "tack" could have helped but I think this cop was out for kicking some butt...

 

[AMann]

Wow

Was that the cop writing a reply? Sounded like it. It really was a situation where the OP was right, but the difference between how the two cops handled it was obvious. Both sides could have handled it differently.

 

[texasgrape]

I am seriously thinking about selling my drone and getting out all together. All this crap about turning the other cheek and being an ambassador for the sport is bull squirt. It seems every time there is a situation like this we pilots are guilty until proven innocent and guess what there never seems to be any proof ANYONE will accept at the time of the incident so the tag is guilty with no recourse.

in this case the police officer was wrong and continued to set the pilot up by follow-up searches just to provoke a situation that would justify their errant behavior. This is what gives law enforcement a bad name a couple of pizzed doff police officers who decide they have better things to do with their time than jack up some adolescent male with a toy. The charge of duty "to protect and serve" is not modified or diminished by a LEO's evaluation of a improper operation of a toy.
I am tired of being a part of a group of people who have their rights reduced because of their association with "a toy" or because they belong to a fringe group of people that most have yet to accept.

Here in this great country of America, as in many other countries too many sons and daughters of freedom have given their all to insure we are free and subject to equal justice.
The police officers were uneducated, stepping beyond their bounds and treated a law abiding citizen with total absence of equal rights. He was flying a drone not endangering anyone or himself.

NOW BEFORE YOU THINK I AM ANTI LAW OR ANTI COP or have an axe to grind or shouting power to the people understand my only son is a law enforcement officer (a street cop) of some 22 years. I have many friends and customers to my small business who are in law enforcement and I respect deeply the job they do every day but IMHO these officers were way out of their badges with the treatment of this pilot. Having fun should not be a crime unless it is a crime !!!!!!!!!!!!!
mikemoose55

mikemoose55: I agree 100%--I was fixing to pull the trigger on a mavic back in August; I went and got my Part 107 as a result just so I could be more edu-ma-cated AND not have to notify every freaking pasture-airport and heliport in the area--plus I am 4.9 miles from a class E w/700' floor and the supv said I had to blah blah blah each time I flew--so I got my part 107 and no more blah blah blah each time I fly LOS in my own 12 acre pasture here in Texas--which BTW have very strict photo regs!

Anyway I did not buy the mavic! Instead I took half the money and built a racing drone and I am learning FPV w/goggles--still a noob but so so much fun--to heck with the mavics for now and all the hassle I have been reading about! I still lurk here because I like to learn about this hobby and I still may get one down the road when prices fall--

Yes I still have to follow the regs with racing drones but it seems no one really cares about them as much--LOL
God bless our law enforcement but most just don't know the regs--I didn't until I studied my arse off to get my certification! And we still are learning! Later--nice reply mikemoose55

 

[neggy]

Yes, California is what they call a “2 party state” meaning all parties involved must give consent. Last I checked, these are the “2 party” states. They are:
California
Connecticut
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Montana
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

But there have been MULTIPLE Federal Circuit rulings in MASSACHUSETTS that say recording Police Officers and others in the course of their official duties is legal, including one in MA recently that says you do not have to do it "in the open" anymore, you can do it surreptitiously.

The Gilk case established the right to record Government employees and officials openly

Glik v. Cunniffe

Martin & Perez v, Boston was ruled upon last month and says you can record cops covertly

Federal Court Rules You Have the Right to Record the Cops—Even in Secret

 

[DroningOn]

But there have been MULTIPLE Federal Circuit rulings in MASSACHUSETTS that say recording Police Officers and others in the course of their official duties is legal, including one in MA recently that says you do not have to do it "in the open" anymore, you can do it surreptitiously.

The Gilk case established the right to record Government employees and officials openly

Glik v. Cunniffe

Martin & Perez v, Boston was ruled upon last month and says you can record cops covertly

Federal Court Rules You Have the Right to Record the Cops—Even in Secret

Good to know

 

[mlee]

I had already complied and landed mavic. In my opinion, 99 out of 100 cops would have handled this scenario much differently. I honestly believed he would read the words on the page and realize this rule clearly doesn’t apply. Or at least have a conversation about it.

Almost any officer would rather mail a ticket at a later date than put someone in handcuffs and confiscate their stuff only to realize later that they (the officer) are wrong.

Imagine getting stopped for jaywalking and an angry officer puts you in handcuffs and confiscated all your stuff,,,,including your cell phone, even after the officer opened the book and read the rule and realized the rule in question doesn’t actually prohibit jay walking.

Most people would be outraged by this behavior.

Outraged is an understatement for sure and I agree you are 100% in the right with everything you did but watching the video I just had the feeling it was going to go that way right from the beginning unless you backed off completely. Once he decided on a ticket there was nothing you could do.

Sorry you had to deal with this, but glad you won the battle. (sort of)

YEOW!!!!! I can't think of any better time to say "...show it to me in writing..." If the cop feels he was in violation of a local ordinance he had every right to ask him ON THE SPOT to show it to him. And if he didn't agree with the cop on his interpretation of it he also had the right to express his opinion. Where I can be sypathetic to what cops have to deal with this cop was looking to hard to victimize.

ON THE SPOT is my issue. It was too late at that point. I just see that going a complete different direction and never getting to the bad cop.