I wish regulations were sensible but strictly enforced.

[maelstrom]

We flew for decades with no VLOS (or altitude) restrictions before FPV, Gyro Stabilization, and GPS guidance.

There may not have been VLOS or height rules then but that’s because “decades” ago you had to keep the aircraft in sight anyway to avoid losing control (and the aircraft) so people had no option.

 

[BigAl07]

There may not have been VLOS or height rules then but that’s because “decades” ago you had to keep the aircraft in sight anyway to avoid losing control (and the aircraft) so people had no option.

I don't disagree with that statement at all. You're 100% correct.

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should . . . .

 

[maelstrom]

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should . . . .

Sorry, you’ve lost me with that comment. I’m certainly not advocating flying BVLOS just because the drone is capable of it. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[dronerdave]

And our little screens are considered FPV. Looking at a phone or monitor while you zip around the NAS BVLOS is nutz IMO. I'm not saying you must ALWAYS have an eye on your drone. Not even the FAA expects that. Looking at your telemetry helps navigate. But relying strictly eye sight or strictly your FPV and telemetry information isn't the safest method. IMO both come into play. You simply must be able to give way to manned aircraft...hopefully in enough time to avoid a collision. Periodically scan the skies. Being able to quickly find your quad when you go to look should be accomplished quickly...not looking for ever to find it once you look down. The closest mid air I've had was less than 200 feet from me at an altitude of about 40 foot AGL. The plane was on me before I knew it and I barely got out of his way. It was at a lake and the pilot was legal to fly by that close being he couldn't see us prior to his fly by. I do however think he should have done a fly over at a reasonable height to scan the area prior to making a low pass. He would have seen two large orange landing pads but that is a moot point. One thing, I'll never forget the look on his face when he looked at us. I've always wondered how it would have gone if he did hit me and crash. Not a good thought.

 

[jgn]

Interesting discussion. Some advocate following the "rules" regardless. If I fly at a field dedicated to RC craft, when I'm completely by myself, flying around pylons using FPV with no spotter about 10' off the ground at a distance no more than 100' away, isn't this violating the rules. At any time I can take the goggles off and see my drone, since it's very close. Clearly I'm violating the rules, but would it be an acceptable practice non-the-less?

 

[dronerdave]

Interesting discussion. Some advocate following the "rules" regardless. If I fly at a field dedicated to RC craft, when I'm completely by myself, flying around pylons using FPV with no spotter about 10' off the ground at a distance no more than 100' away, isn't this violating the rules. At any time I can take the goggles off and see my drone, since it's very close. Clearly I'm violating the rules, but would it be an acceptable practice non-the-less?

You can do what you want, you're just responsible for your actions. Say for instance you lose control of your racing drone and clobber someone. What damage did you do? Maybe you end up in a lawsuit. So in court they find you were flying out of compliance. It probably would not be a positive thing to help justify your actions.

 

[jgn]

You can do what you want, you're just responsible for your actions. Say for instance you lose control of your racing drone and clobber someone. What damage did you do? Maybe you end up in ...

Note that I said " I'm completely by myself" (also the RC field is well isolated), so your hypothetical couldn't apply.

I think the question I'm raising, consistent with this thread, is that with a "one-size-fits" all rule, there could be very special flying circumstances, where the rule would be a very poor fit and you could safely fly. I was just curious to see whether flyers believe one should adhere to the letter of the law regardless, or whether there might be a consensus that, assuming the pilot is very experienced, it could be acceptable to use one's own judgement (and be responsible for your actions!) to violate the rule in the very special flying circumstance described in my post. I provided a well defined example because without a specific example, you definitely can't make blanket statements. I'm sure there are other similar examples.

 

[maelstrom]

Note that I said " I'm completely by myself" (also the RC field is well isolated), so your hypothetical couldn't apply.

But you’re assuming that your drone will be 100% reliable with no chance whatsoever of a flyaway or other malfunction. That drone will probably never exist!

I think the question I'm raising, consistent with this thread, is that with a "one-size-fits" all rule, there could be very special flying circumstances, where the rule would be a very poor fit and you could safely fly. I was just curious to see whether flyers believe one should adhere to the letter of the law regardless, or whether there might be a consensus that, assuming the pilot is very experienced, it could be acceptable to use one's own judgement (and be responsible for your actions!) to violate the rule in the very special flying circumstance described in my post.

The rules are valid in almost all circumstances and it would be difficult to legislate individually for the small number of circumstances where it may be safe to fly with different rules.

Your response implies that you think that it’s ok to obey the laws you agree with and ignore the ones you don’t. Sadly, laws and legislation, once passed, are not negotiable by the general public and consensus doesn’t enter into it from a legal point of view. If you opt to break the rules, the chances are pretty good that no one would notice. However, if something does go wrong (and it will, eventually) or someone who knows the rules reports you, there would be no defence against the potential legal and financial penalties that could be imposed.

More importantly, we’ve really only got the rules we have at the moment as an attempt to control irresponsible use of drones in the past. The more that people break the rules, the more (worse) rules will be introduced. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the legislation is not their to make drone flying less enjoyable, it’s there to try to make it safer for those not involved.

 

[dronerdave]

But you’re assuming that your drone will be 100% reliable with no chance whatsoever of a flyaway or other malfunction. That drone will probably never exist!

The rules are valid in almost all circumstances and it would be difficult to legislate individually for the small number of circumstances where it may be safe to fly with different rules.

Your response implies that you think that it’s ok to obey the laws you agree with and ignore the ones you don’t. Sadly, laws and legislation, once passed, are not negotiable by the general public and consensus doesn’t enter into it from a legal point of view. If you opt to break the rules, the chances are pretty good that no one would notice. However, if something does go wrong (and it will, eventually) or someone who knows the rules reports you, there would be no defence against the potential legal and financial penalties that could be imposed.

More importantly, we’ve really only got the rules we have at the moment as an attempt to control irresponsible use of drones in the past. The more that people break the rules, the more (worse) rules will be introduced. Contrary to what some people seem to think, the legislation is not their to make drone flying less enjoyable, it’s there to try to make it safer for those not involved.

I agree...I find it funny when people try to make up excuses to fly out of compliance.

Finding a way to fly within the scope of the rules or not is my choice and I'll stay within the rules.

Note that I said " I'm completely by myself" (also the RC field is well isolated), so your hypothetical couldn't apply.
I was just curious to see whether flyers believe one should adhere to the letter of the law regardless, or whether there might be a consensus that, assuming the pilot is very experienced, it could be acceptable to use one's own judgement (and be responsible for your actions!) to violate the rule in the very special flying circumstance described in my post.

@jgn
Again, how can you justify a flight that violates rules? Don't look at my example as a "it won't happen to me" because of bla bla bla. That in itself is hypothetical. FAA rules are written for NAS safety and for that of the public.
Some argue that with the number of drones in the USA compared to damaging incidents that occur each year, they think the rules shouldn't control their choice of where they can fly because THEY THINK the odds are low enough to justify their flight. And while many of the questionable videos on the internet were completed before the FAA put the hammer down, I don't need to ask if I people are breaking the FAA rules today. Pretty obvious many are. I'll just try to stay in line with the FAA rules whenever I go up. My choice.

Do I think the (FAA) rules are a bit excessive with regard to RC aircraft? In some circumstances absolutely yes. But that is a different subject.

 

[Thomas B]

Can’t see the drone with your eyes is like the equivalent of not seeing another drone at the site you’re using if launched at a distance to you.

 

[jgn]

I think my query is being misconstrued, likely because I wasn’t sufficiently clear. Let me ask in another way. Let’s say an experienced pilot, familiar with all FAA/AMA rules and drone tech, is unofficially addressing in public an audience generally unfamiliar with, but interested in getting into drone flying. At the end of the presentation, someone in the audience asks the question:

“I live by myself on one of the two million farms in this country and would like to do some freestyle/FPV drone flying outside my farm house. There’s no other farm within 10 miles of mine and I don’t live near any airports of any sort. Would it be ok if I did this, knowing that it was safe, but technically would be breaking the rules?”

I was just curious what other more experienced pilots would say in this case if done honestly.

 

[BigAl07]

I think my query is being misconstrued, likely because I wasn’t sufficiently clear. Let me ask in another way. Let’s say an experienced pilot, familiar with all FAA/AMA rules and drone tech, is unofficially addressing in public an audience generally unfamiliar with, but interested in getting into drone flying. At the end of the presentation, someone in the audience asks the question:

“I live by myself on one of the two million farms in this country and would like to do some freestyle/FPV drone flying outside my farm house. There’s no other farm within 10 miles of mine and I don’t live near any airports of any sort. Would it be ok if I did this, knowing that it was safe, but technically would be breaking the rules?”

I was just curious what other more experienced pilots would say in this case if done honestly.

From a strictly "Legal" aspect it wouldn't fit into the current regulations unless you had a spotter blah blah blah. But is it safe? Most likely VERY safe and probably safer than a lot of other "Legal" things you could be doing.