Image softness from the MA2 - Am I crazy?

[macfawlty]

I believe the primary factor at play is shutter speed - the camera is not on a tripod, it’s floating in the air subject to wind and if you were up there with it, you’d see it bouncing around. The farther away a subject is in the scene, the softer it will be. The gimbal does a remarkable job at stabilizing considering. A good target for shutter speed would be 1/500 or higher. At 1/250 or lower, consider an ISO of 200 or perhaps 400. It’s a trade off as you can do NR and sharpening in post, but there’s no fix for a blurry image. Of course, the ISO 400 is gonna be softer either way. I always use AEB of 3 or 5 images depending on exposure variance in the scene. If the scene is worth the effort, I’d shoot it a few times as I’ve noticed that some images can be more blurry than others due to the drone bouncing in the wind.
The other thing I’d recommend is to move closer the the scene and shoot a panorama. [edited the previous response as it was an overly complicated and flawed workflow!]

 

[Meta4]

I do have a CPL, but I've found it to add an annoying green hue to the sides of the image so I don't use it that much. I have corrected it in LR in the past, but it's an extra step I don't always care to do. Plus lining up the composition to match where the line in the CPL is can be tough in the air. But maybe I'll give it another try!

A polarising filter isn't going to improve sharpness of your image, but it will cause other issues.
In general a polarising filter is more trouble than it's worth on a drone.
It's only going to work properly when aligned relative to the sun for the direction the camera is facing.
Move the drone to face somewhere else, and you need to re-align the filter.
The resulting uneven skies can look horrible.

 

[Meta4]

I believe the primary factor at play is shutter speed - ... A good target for shutter speed would be 1/500 or higher. At 1/250 or lower, consider an ISO of 200 or perhaps 400.

The gimbal does a better job of stabilising the camera than most people can do handholding a camera.
With the very wideangle lens of the camera, it's able to give good sharp images at shutter speeds much lower than 1/500th.
In light breezes I wouldn't be concerned with shutter speeds down to 1/20th.
(I've had perfect results shooting at 1/15th in 15 knot winds)
In still air, down to 2 sec can be OK.
A bigger concern is the increased noise that's unavoidable with such a small sensor when ISO is increased.

The OP's sample shots were taken at a range of appropriate shutter speeds and they show no signs of movement blur or any focus issue.
They just demonstrate the limitations of the camera's small sensor, particularly with distant, soft subjects.

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

I do have a CPL, but I've found it to add an annoying green hue to the sides of the image so I don't use it that much. I have corrected it in LR in the past, but it's an extra step I don't always care to do. Plus lining up the composition to match where the line in the CPL is can be tough in the air. But maybe I'll give it another try!

I’m wondering if you are expecting too much from the small sensor drone. It does a great job for amateurs but may not achieve what you are seeking. Good luck. It is still a lot of fun. ????

 

[DavidT_ NZ]

A polarising filter isn't going to improve sharpness of your image, but it will cause other issues.
In general a polarising filter is more trouble than it's worth on a drone.
It's only going to work properly when aligned relative to the sun for the direction the camera is facing.
Move the drone to face somewhere else, and you need to re-align the filter.
The resulting uneven skies can look horrible.

It’s just the same as when using a polariser on a terrestrial camera. They have their place, in good hands. ?

 

[Meta4]

It’s just the same as when using a polariser on a terrestrial camera. They have their place, in good hands. ?

That's the thing.
With an SLR, the camera is in your hands and it's nothing to readjust the filter for a different shot.
But when the camera is a few hundred feet out and you've made that one shot ......
And if you don't and keep shooting, the rest of your shots are junk.

 

[BuzzDronington]

That's the thing.
With an SLR, the camera is in your hands and it's nothing to readjust the filter for a different shot.
But when the camera is a few hundred feet out and you've made that one shot ......
And if you don't and keep shooting, the rest of your shots are junk.

This is the primary reason I don't use it that much. The hue is correctable, but if the current orientation of the filter doesn't line up with the composition you want, I've just found that does more harm than good.

I’m wondering if you are expecting too much from the small sensor drone. It does a great job for amateurs but may not achieve what you are seeking. Good luck. It is still a lot of fun. ????

Very possible! That's what I was hoping to find out with this post. If this is what I can expect from the sensor then that's totally fine, and I'll keep on shooting knowing I'm getting everything I can out of it. I was more just concerned that I was doing something wrong.

At 1/250 or lower, consider an ISO of 200 or perhaps 400. It’s a trade off as you can do NR and sharpening in post, but there’s no fix for a blurry image. Of course, the ISO 400 is gonna be softer either way.

I was always instructed to leave ISO at 100 because the noise comes fast and hard above that. But maybe I'll give 200 a try and see what comes out.

shoot an AEB manual panorama with 70% overlap (due to lens warping), edit the properly exposed raw images in LR using the appropriate controls>copy adjustments>sync or paste adjustments>export the series…edit in>merge to panorama in photoshop - using positioning>merge layers>save as PSD>back to LR for any additional adjustments, crop and export. It makes for a really high resolution image which will be by nature, sharper.

I haven't seen anyone recommend that big of an overlap, but it certainly makes sense. Also, interesting you do your pano stitching in PS, not LR? I've always found LR to be generally pretty good at it - what's the advantage of doing it in PS

 

[macfawlty]

This is the primary reason I don't use it that much. The hue is correctable, but if the current orientation of the filter doesn't line up with the composition you want, I've just found that does more harm than good.


Very possible! That's what I was hoping to find out with this post. If this is what I can expect from the sensor then that's totally fine, and I'll keep on shooting knowing I'm getting everything I can out of it. I was more just concerned that I was doing something wrong.


I was always instructed to leave ISO at 100 because the noise comes fast and hard above that. But maybe I'll give 200 a try and see what comes out.


I haven't seen anyone recommend that big of an overlap, but it certainly makes sense. Also, interesting you do your pano stitching in PS, not LR? I've always found LR to be generally pretty good at it - what's the advantage of doing it in PS

Probably very true on the ISO. Ive used 400 on the M2P, not the MA2. Point was to use as high a shutter as possible as it will generate the sharpest image. I've found it remarkably sharp at slower shutters considering it's floating.
Regarding the overlap, I edited my previous response, realizing after more research that my old school workflow for panos is deeply flawed and you’ll get better results using the automated pano methods. 95% of my flying, I’m shooting video, so I’ll have to do some more testing with the auto pano methods. The technology in these DJI products never ceases to amaze me.

 

[AZDave]

The gimbal does a better job of stabilising the camera than most people can do handholding a camera.
With the very wideangle lens of the camera, it's able to give good sharp images at shutter speeds much lower than 1/500th.
In light breezes I wouldn't be concerned with shutter speeds down to 1/20th.
(I've had perfect results shooting at 1/15th in 15 knot winds)
In still air, down to 2 sec can be OK.
A bigger concern is the increased noise that's unavoidable with such a small sensor when ISO is increased.

The OP's sample shots were taken at a range of appropriate shutter speeds and they show no signs of movement blur or any focus issue.
They just demonstrate the limitations of the camera's small sensor, particularly with distant, soft subjects.

Yes, the drone gimbal does an incredible job of stabilizing the camera. Here is a comparison video I shot with an AirPro2 (GoPro knockoff) securely strapped to the top of my Mavic Air 2 while the drone was recording at the same time. And the AirPro2 has a very wide angle lens itself. Forget the difference in color, etc ... I didn't bother to adjust that.

I shot a different video with the drone recently where I was trying to skim across the very tall grass that has grown across my semi-rural lot after the summer rain storms. I was expecting the prop wash to part the grass. The collision sensors tried to stop the drone from going forward, though, and since I had the right stick pushed fairly far forward the drone was visibly and repeatedly lurching very quickly and with maximum tilt. But when I looked at the video afterward I couldn't detect any tilt ... just the drone moving and stopping forward.

These things are amazing.

 

[LA 2020]

Hi Everyone - Long-time lurker, first time poster here. I'm a landscape photographer and I've had my MA2 for about a year now, but just recently started to take my flying a bit more seriously (passed Part 107, shooting more, plans for future, etc). The more I shoot photography with it, the more I've noticed that my images are coming out pretty soft outside of the foregrounds. They look decent at first glance, but as soon as you look closer they fall apart pretty quickly. Mushy, noisy and undefined, and the depth is inconsistent - I notice this a lot when trees and hills are present, but it happens with cityscapes too.

Basically, I'm wondering A) Are my expectations for this 1/2" sensor too high, and this is how it's supposed to perform? B) Is this user error (either while shooting or in Lightroom) that could be accidentally degrading the image quality? C) Did I get a bad camera from DJI in this unit?

Sample raw images (unedited) are attached so you can play around and see what I mean. I'm not expecting them to be DSLR quality, but I can't help but feel like they should be coming out better/sharper? For reference, here's one local guy who I compare my images to, since I know he was shooting with a MA2 until he upgraded in June. His are generally super sharp, great color, low noise, and high IQ: https://www.instagram.com/oschapov/

Don't hold back on the critique - it's very possibly that I just need to improve! Thank you all in advance for your help!

First you are up pretty high so likely some wind which is similar to shooting without a tripod. Could be just slight enough movement to make a difference. Second I use a "magic" software from Topaz called DeNoise AI. Get this software and use it on any photo that isn't "perfect" and you will be amazed. I have saved photos I thought were no good. Attached is one of your photos cropped in the middle then run through my DeNoise software with same crop. It took about 10 seconds to clean up. Put these side by side and you'll see what I mean. The software is about $60 and worth 10 times that if your a photographer

 

[AZDave]

First you are up pretty high so likely some wind which is similar to shooting without a tripod. Could be just slight enough movement to make a difference. Second I use a "magic" software from Topaz called DeNoise AI. Get this software and use it on any photo that isn't "perfect" and you will be amazed. I have saved photos I thought were no good. Attached is one of your photos cropped in the middle then run through my DeNoise software with same crop. It took about 10 seconds to clean up. Put these side by side and you'll see what I mean. The software is about $60 and worth 10 times that if your a photographer

That is indeed very impressive.

Do you know of anything with similar performance for video?

 

[macfawlty]

That is indeed very impressive.

Do you know of anything with similar performance for video?

the studio version of Resolve has noise reduction and sharpening. It really shouldn’t be necessary with drone video clips, plus you really don’t have the latitude in the DJI compression scheme for a huge amount of color correction re: noise reduction and sharpening. If your scene doesnt have the appropriate amount of lighting and you aren’t properly exposed for what you’re trying to accomplish, there’s a limit. With wide variances in exposure between ground plane and sky, you have to make choices what‘s most important to expose for. Sunsets, you have to expose for the sky and expect the ground elements to be dark. Use the landforms, trees and other elements as silhouette to frame the scene, create the drama through movement, play on light and shadow.

 

[Renoetra]

First you are up pretty high so likely some wind which is similar to shooting without a tripod. Could be just slight enough movement to make a difference. Second I use a "magic" software from Topaz called DeNoise AI. Get this software and use it on any photo that isn't "perfect" and you will be amazed. I have saved photos I thought were no good. Attached is one of your photos cropped in the middle then run through my DeNoise software with same crop. It took about 10 seconds to clean up. Put these side by side and you'll see what I mean. The software is about $60 and worth 10 times that if your a photographer

To much de noise for my taste.

 

[adcimagery]

First you are up pretty high so likely some wind which is similar to shooting without a tripod. Could be just slight enough movement to make a difference. Second I use a "magic" software from Topaz called DeNoise AI. Get this software and use it on any photo that isn't "perfect" and you will be amazed. I have saved photos I thought were no good. Attached is one of your photos cropped in the middle then run through my DeNoise software with same crop. It took about 10 seconds to clean up. Put these side by side and you'll see what I mean. The software is about $60 and worth 10 times that if your a photographer

I agree with Renoetra - that NR has turned the trees painterly. Consider the farmhouse in the foreground - it's picking up really weird artifacts from the "AI" processing step.

 

[adcimagery]

Hi Everyone - Long-time lurker, first time poster here. I'm a landscape photographer and I've had my MA2 for about a year now, but just recently started to take my flying a bit more seriously (passed Part 107, shooting more, plans for future, etc). The more I shoot photography with it, the more I've noticed that my images are coming out pretty soft outside of the foregrounds. They look decent at first glance, but as soon as you look closer they fall apart pretty quickly. Mushy, noisy and undefined, and the depth is inconsistent - I notice this a lot when trees and hills are present, but it happens with cityscapes too.

Basically, I'm wondering A) Are my expectations for this 1/2" sensor too high, and this is how it's supposed to perform? B) Is this user error (either while shooting or in Lightroom) that could be accidentally degrading the image quality? C) Did I get a bad camera from DJI in this unit?

Sample raw images (unedited) are attached so you can play around and see what I mean. I'm not expecting them to be DSLR quality, but I can't help but feel like they should be coming out better/sharper? For reference, here's one local guy who I compare my images to, since I know he was shooting with a MA2 until he upgraded in June. His are generally super sharp, great color, low noise, and high IQ: https://www.instagram.com/oschapov/

Don't hold back on the critique - it's very possibly that I just need to improve! Thank you all in advance for your help!

I see you posted JPEGs. Are these processed from raw files, or are they the straight-out-of-drone JPEGs?

Either way, I'd suggest re-examining your Lightroom workflow and using the raw files. While a drone's camera is limited by physics, in comparison to a DSLR or mirrorless, you can still get good IQ with careful post-processing. Nailing the exposure is key to working with the limited dynamic range. If you get that down, you can definitely be more heavy handed with contrast, sharpening, and local adjustments in LR.

Also, check out the super-resolution/enhance details step in Lightroom. It processes the raw files with an alternate demosaicing algorithm that works quite well for the MA2's weird Bayer layout.