Improving the signal range by installing antennas and a mirror.

[eEridani]

I think we covered it.

Not really - you can't have a photon unless there is an EM field to carry it.

 

[Lets Fly]

Not really - you can't have a photon unless there is an EM field to carry it.

The frequency of the signal back and forth to the drone is carried on photons. The signal hitting the antennas, or reflecting off the reflector is carried on partical waves, (photons).

 

[notisjim]

Reply to eEridani, who said "lol An optical mirror? ROTFLMAO."
The mirror I used is made with plastic at the back and aluminum sheet at the front, with reflectivity 95%. So what is your problem and are you kidding?? If you do not like it, do not do this installation. It is not mandatory.

Reply to Marcass Carcass who said "Yagi, is a money grab"
If antenna Yagi is just a money grab, why do they all use the same type (Yagi, with linear length and polarity according to TV signal)?

And military radars that also use such Yagi antennas, are also a waste of money;

If you do not want to spend your money to buy Yagi antennas, do not do this installation. It is not mandatory.

 

[eEridani]

Reply to eEridani, who said "lol An optical mirror? ROTFLMAO."
The mirror I used is made with plastic at the back and aluminum sheet at the front, with reflectivity 95%. So what is your problem and are you kidding?? If you do not like it, do not do this installation. It is not mandatory.

Reply to Marcass Carcass who said "Yagi, is a money grab"
If antenna Yagi is just a money grab, why do they all use the same type (Yagi, with linear length and polarity according to TV signal)?
View attachment 143639
And military radars that also use such Yagi antennas, are also a waste of money;
View attachment 143645
If you do not want to spend your money to buy Yagi antennas, do not do this installation. It is not mandatory.

How do you account for using a 5.4GHz antenna on a 5.8GHz radio?

Radio antennas have to be tuned to the frequency they are being used at. And two antennas in close proximity actually interfere with each other. You can't stack a 2.4GHz antenna next to a 5.8GHz antenna and expect them to work. And a mirror is just, well hilariously funny.

 

[Lets Fly]

Not really - you can't have a photon unless there is an EM field to carry it.

One more, Electromagnetic fields are made out of photons. The magnitude and direction of the electromagnetic field intensity at any point is directly proportional to the magnitude and direction of the force of the photon at that point. The field isn't carrying it, it is it. (Photons that is).

 

[retiredNH]

The frequency of the signal back and forth to the drone is carried on photons. The signal hitting the antennas, or reflecting off the reflector is carried on partical waves, (photons).

You, and others here, are falling into a common trap in trying to understand a quantum mechanical concept in layperson's terms. There's a good wikipedia article that begins to explain, Wave–particle duality - Wikipedia

Not worth arguing over, though. Sometimes you just gotta accept that the quantum world is a strange one, very alien to our day to day experience.

More importantly for this thread, though, is WHY would someone want greater control range if they follow current law of VLOS? I have good signal strength on my Air 2S waaay beyond where I can actually see it...

 

[Lets Fly]

You, and others here, are falling into a common trap in trying to understand a quantum mechanical concept in layperson's terms. There's a good wikipedia article that begins to explain, Wave–particle duality - Wikipedia

Not worth arguing over, though. Sometimes you just gotta accept that the quantum world is a strange one, very alien to our day to day experience.

More importantly for this thread, though, is WHY would someone want greater control range if they follow current law of VLOS? I have good signal strength on my Air 2S waaay beyond where I can actually see it...

Your comment on VLOS is right on, but by the way, I do understand quantum entanglement and duality to the best of my ability over the last 50 years at least. This was about what's a photon and yes every frequency of the EM is made of photons of different levels of energy called Quanta's. If you can figure out the quantum theory there's a Nobel prize waiting. True, not worth arguing over although discussing it is fun. Have a nice flight no madder how far you fly.

 

[retiredNH]

Your comment on VLOS is right on, but by the way, I do understand quantum entanglement and duality to the best of my ability over the last 50 years at least. This was about what's a photon and yes every frequency of the EM is made of photons of different levels of energy called Quanta's. If you can figure out the quantum theory there's a Nobel prize waiting. True, not worth arguing over although discussing it is fun. Have a nice flight no madder how far you fly.

Actually, the secret to "understanding" quantum mechanics is to just accept that some of it is just "odd" - very different from our everyday reality. Don't try to find parallels in the regular world - that's where the discussion goes off the rails.

 

[Lets Fly]

Actually, the secret to "understanding" quantum mechanics is to just accept that some of it is just "odd" - very different from our everyday reality. Don't try to find parallels in the regular world - that's where the discussion goes off the rails.

Yes our brains are not wired to understand quantum mechanics (yet), but we'll get there. We do however understand our signals to our drones, thankfully.

 

[PVilardi]

I am no radio ham but surely if using a Yagi with a reflector each Yagi should have its own reflector. As I understand it the idea being that waves are focused onto the antennae, to my mind your single reflector does not do that, or worse, completely scrambles them.

As I said I am no radio ham so if I am wrong someone please do correct me.

I am a ham radio operator. I hold an amateur extra class license. My Call sign is N5VAF the mirror isn't necessary. the reflector on a yagi antenna is the longer element. see attachment

 

[Apostol.]

A question to those with radio knowledge in this thread.
On the M2P is there any downside running two yagis 5.8ghz AND those parabolic plastic mirrors on the back of the antennae?

 

[AZDave]

A question to those with radio knowledge in this thread.
On the M2P is there any downside running two yagis 5.8ghz AND those parabolic plastic mirrors on the back of the antennae?

I graduated from the University of Minnesota's Institute of Technology with an Electrical Engineering degree and a specialization in EM fields. I'm a ham radio operator with an Extra Class license that enjoys modeling antennas with software like EZNEC.

Putting a curved reflector behind the middle of two Yagi antennas is counter productive. I agree it would be reflective to radio waves as long as the reflective material is conductive, but as others above have stated it merely interferes with the desired action of the existing reflector element. It's a dumb idea. At best it skews the pattern of the Yagi sideways and degrades it. At worst it detunes the reflector and makes it useless.

Radio frequency energy behaves in ways that can, at least in some situations, effectively be considered in terms of either photons or waves, but it is a total fallacy to think that 5 GHz and visible light are interchangeable in how they interact with various physical objects. The optical experiment was silly.

 

[Apostol.]

I graduated from the University of Minnesota's Institute of Technology with an Electrical Engineering degree and a specialization in EM fields. I'm a ham radio operator with an Extra Class license that enjoys modeling antennas with software like EZNEC.

Putting a curved reflector behind the middle of two Yagi antennas is counter productive. I agree it would be reflective to radio waves as long as the reflective material is conductive, but as others above have stated it merely interferes with the desired action of the existing reflector element. It's a dumb idea. At best it skews the pattern of the Yagi sideways and degrades it. At worst it detunes the reflector and makes it useless.

Radio frequency energy behaves in ways that can, at least in some situations, effectively be considered in terms of either photons or waves, but it is a total fallacy to think that 5 GHz and visible light are interchangeable in how they interact with various physical objects. The optical experiment was silly.

Thank you Sir for your comprehensive answer.

 

[retiredNH]

I graduated from the University of Minnesota's Institute of Technology with an Electrical Engineering degree and a specialization in EM fields. I'm a ham radio operator with an Extra Class license that enjoys modeling antennas with software like EZNEC.

Putting a curved reflector behind the middle of two Yagi antennas is counter productive. I agree it would be reflective to radio waves as long as the reflective material is conductive, but as others above have stated it merely interferes with the desired action of the existing reflector element. It's a dumb idea. At best it skews the pattern of the Yagi sideways and degrades it. At worst it detunes the reflector and makes it useless.

Radio frequency energy behaves in ways that can, at least in some situations, effectively be considered in terms of either photons or waves, but it is a total fallacy to think that 5 GHz and visible light are interchangeable in how they interact with various physical objects. The optical experiment was silly.

All this is true, but I suspect the reflector looks good to folks that don't know better, so maybe that's the purpose. There's so much good looking junk for sale these days. Ultrasonic rat repellers, anyone? UV bug zappers that have been shown repeatedly to attract more mosquitos than they kill? They do look nice, don't they?

 

[AZDave]

All this is true, but I suspect the reflector looks good to folks that don't know better, so maybe that's the purpose. There's so much good looking junk for sale these days. Ultrasonic rat repellers, anyone? UV bug zappers that have been shown repeatedly to attract more mosquitos than they kill? They do look nice, don't they?

My list of products that prey upon the technically gullible includes:

1. Non-magnetic mattresses and bed springs in order to not disrupt the natural orientation of the earth's magnetic field

2. Oxygen free wall sockets (at $300 a pop) for more pure sound from the audio gear connected to them

3. Copper bracelets for arthritis

To keep this on topic, yagi antennas do work if the stock antenna is external (which provides the driver) for them to clip to and there is sound physics behind them. You do have to point them at the drone for them to work, of course, and if you don't do that they will be worse than without them, but they do work when used properly.

 

[Hayds]

Licensed HAM (Technician level) and 22+ years as a US Navy RADAR operator and technician here and I will tell you that your setup is sketchy, despite your beliefs otherwise. This is not how RF waves propagate with high efficiency. The reflective parabolic dish (mirror) is both shaped exactly for frequency and is placed at a very precise position (location) to focus transmitted and received RF on that exact wavelength (or quarter or half wavelengths, what have you). And doubling up on antenna mishmash (frequencies) is simply just a hot mess. Thumbs down on this setup.ok since you obviously know what you're talking about

Licensed HAM (Technician level) and 22+ years as a US Navy RADAR operator and technician here and I will tell you that your setup is sketchy, despite your beliefs otherwise. This is not how RF waves propagate with high efficiency. The reflective parabolic dish (mirror) is both shaped exactly for frequency and is placed at a very precise position (location) to focus transmitted and received RF on that exact wavelength (or quarter or half wavelengths, what have you). And doubling up on antenna mishmash (frequencies) is simply just a hot mess. Thumbs down on this setup.

Since you clearly know what you're on about I have an related question regarding my personal setup on my Mavic air 1, bearing in mind these run on enhanced wifi 2.4ghz 5.8ghz switchable manually ive installed a 1 watt Amp with 7dbi antenna what's your opinion

 

[Hayds]

Since you clearly know what you're on about I have an related question regarding my personal setup on my Mavic air 1, bearing in mind these run on enhanced wifi 2.4ghz 5.8ghz switchable manually ive installed a 1 watt Amp with 7dbi antenna what's your opinion

As I understand TX,RX on antenna 1
And only RX on antenna 2
And purely only for control signal enhancement

 

[szakeetm]

"(The next plan is to improve the range with an extra LiPo battery on top of the original)."

I've spent half a year testing different external setups and it's not worth it:

Christmas test: Mavic Air 2 weight vs. consumption chart

I have been experimenting over a year with external batteries on my Mavic Air 2. As you all know, this is a delicate subject as extra power means extra weight, which increases power consumption and might even decrease propeller efficiency. To do the test, I attached a bottle to my drone, and...

mavicpilots.com

 

[eEridani]

As I understand TX,RX on antenna 1
And only RX on antenna 2
And purely only for control signal enhancement

If the RC has a 28dBm transmitter, the 1w addition is likely not helping much, only 2dB gain IF it doesn't hurt SNR, which it probably does.

What's the gain of the built in antenna? Need that info before saying if the 7dBi is helping.

 

[eEridani]

A question to those with radio knowledge in this thread.
On the M2P is there any downside running two yagis 5.8ghz AND those parabolic plastic mirrors on the back of the antennae?

When two antennas are within a wavelength of each other, they actually cause interference. So having 2.4 and 5.8 yagis spaced together as the OP has done is hurting signal reception.

Plus, the external yagis also are based on the fact the driven element is inside the RC ears. So the external antennas only have a reflector (behind the ear) and a few director elements (in front). If those elements aren't properly aligned with the driven element inside the ears the external antennas are only hurting reception.

The mirror, as stated many times, looks weird, and probably doing little RF speaking.