Just another "No Drones Here" or does this have teeth

[Chip D]

I was looking at flying my drone at a remote site in the state of Washington. BTW, no planes/helicopters/lifeflights/airiports flying anywhere near here and this was posted. I'm sure some of you have seen these before, and our forum has the question posted which is, can they regulate us if we take off and land outside of this park, and is there anything definite we can site if the park ranger rolls up?

ll

 

[rangemaster728]

Remote Controlled Aircraft Permit | Washington State Parks

parks.state.wa.us

Washington State Parks allows the use of remote controlled aircraft, also known as drones or unmanned aircraft systems, on a limited basis. Permits are required for each instance of their use. For adequate processing time, please submit your permit application to the park 60 days prior to the date you plan to fly your remote controlled aircraft.

 

[Chip D]

Interesting on looking at the Remote Controlled Aircraft Permit form that you posted.

The use of remote controlled aircraft is regulated within State Parks by WAC 352-32-130 (5) and WAC 352.37.170 (3), which allows for the flying of remote controlled aircraft with written permission of the director or designee. Remote controlled aircraft may be permitted on a single occurrence or limited duration basis with written permission from the director or designee. The request may be for recreational or commercial purposes, and permittees are required to comply with all state and federal rules and regulations, including the Federal Aviation Administration guidelines on use of drones.

The use of remote controlled aircraft also is regulated by the Federal Government. The two most relevant rules are Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulation (14 CFR) Part 107 and Public Law 112-95, Section 336 Special Rules for Model Aircraft.

IANAL, but it does say that "The use of remote controlled aircraft also is regulated by the Federal Government. ", which is basically saying "the feds control the airspace and not us". And they are citing 14CFR about Part 107, and I'm not Part 107. But I defer to the more knowledgeable ones on the forum.

 

[ChuckNorrisUSAF]

That's legit - I live relative to WA state - don't get caught flying.....steep fines

 

[rangemaster728]

State parks out here can (and do) regulate the launching and recovery of UAVs.

The FAA rules covers the activities when the launch/recovery does not occur within the confines of the State park.

BTW...did you check AirMap or any other preflight app?
What specific WA State park?

 

[Chip D]

State parks out here can (and do) regulate the launching and recovery of UAVs.

The FAA rules covers the activities when the launch/recovery does not occur within the confines of the State park.

BTW...did you check AirMap or any other preflight app?
What specific WA State park?

Yes I did check Airmap and Kittyhawk. Nothing.
Paloose Falls.
I took off "outside" of the park boundary which I was careful to observe.

 

[radman]

One of the members here actually applied for and received permission to fly his drone at Cape Disappointment State Park at the mouth of the Columbia River. But it was a long process- applying for a permit well in advance, paying a $25 fee, paying for insurance with the State of Washington as the beneficiary, and even being monitored by a park ranger during his 10 minute flight. You can search for Cape Disappointment for details.

 

[InterstateP]

One of the members here actually applied for and received permission to fly his drone at Cape Disappointment State Park at the mouth of the Columbia River. But it was a long process- applying for a permit well in advance, paying a $25 fee, paying for insurance with the State of Washington as the beneficiary, and even being monitored by a park ranger during his 10 minute flight. You can search for Cape Disappointment for details.

With all those concessions, the name Cape Disappointment seems wildly appropriate here..?

 

[Slade]

Glad I don’t live in Washington?

 

[theDRONEranger]

Colorado state parks are essentially the same. There are very few exceptions to where when in a state park.

 

[Slade]

Colorado state parks are essentially the same. There are very few exceptions to where when in a state park.

Yes, but one can fly outside a park area and as I understand the FAA regulations it’s permissible to start outside a park, fly over it, and return.

 

[theDRONEranger]

True. Happy that State and National Forests are still a go!

 

[swimpmeister]

Arkansas is the same with their state parks but you can take off outside the perimeter and fly over the park and there is nothing they can do about it as long as it is a legal site with VLOS. The problem is usually anything worth filming is deep within the park. Also, in National Forest you can sometimes find someone with private property and you can take off from there even within the National Forest boundaries. Some people find an air bnb inside the park for this very purpose stay safe !

 

[Made2Phly]

The consensus is that flying over parklands is OK, as long as one takes off and lands outside of the park boundaries . As the OP asked, it would be nice to have something specific and clear to convince LEO or park ranger of that when he or she rolls up.

So, anybody got any specific case law or the like that one could show to an LEO?

I have not done the research to get the specific citations, but plainly the FAA has exclusive jurisdiction over airspace. However, convincing an LEO that that entitles me to fly over a park could be an uphill struggle, absent something clear and official.

Unless the collective wisdom and experience here has a specific cite, I may take a dive into the US Code, the Code of Federal regulations and Westlaw.

I will keep y’all posted
Ed, Esq.
PS. There was a recent case in Michigan regarding drones in a municipal park, but I think the issue was whether a municipal ordinance prohibiting take off and landing from within the municipality’s park was enforceable. Our fellow pilots won that case.

 

[Dbez1]

I have found the UAV very helpful. Not only did they contact our local Park Office and explain that I had every right to fly over the park, but they sent me a letter to keep in my flight bag in the event the Park Rangers got over enthusiastic about the issue. I also keep the letter on my phone in the notes. See screenshot below. As long as I take off and land outside the park, I’m good to go as mentioned in another post.

 

[Made2Phly]

Do you have a full copy on letterhead you could post as an attachment?

Also, I see several UAV associations. Can I ask which one provided the letter?

 

[Dbez1]

Due to specific names and phone numbers, I’m not comfortable posting the entire letter but the case worker is identified as “LL” and further inquiries could be addressed at [email protected]. He was dynamite to work with. Again, on the phone he mentioned that most of his fellow workers were drone pilots and sympathetic to our cause. In short, he told the park rangers via phone and follow up email, that they can restrict take off and landing from park property but had no authority over the air space and backed it up with specific codes. I hope this helps.
PS: Common sense dictates that I avoid unnecessary confrontation but if I want a specific photo of the lake, I know how to do it legally. ?

 

[theDRONEranger]

You know, for the longest time, I too, thought the Airspace over NPS areas was NFZ due to 2000 foot restriction. I was informed of the misguided info by SAR104, who was kind enough to point out the 2000 foot altitude is only a recommendation, NOT a specific. I take him at his word, he is quite knowledgable. And, I may also point out that on Sectional Maps, there are no airspace restrictions over the NPS sites. Many NPS sites sit adjacent to private lands, so always give a courtesy visit before trespassing. Here in Colorado, the only NPS park I can think of, off hand, that may be within VLOS for flying is the Great Sand Dunes NP.

Thanks for pointing that out previously SAR104.
Have you ever had opportunity to do White Sands NP from the road. Only drove past! My daughter was stationed at WSMR for almost 3 years. God, what a desolate place! And the NP was closed when we went to visit.

 

[Worsedog]

"For adequate processing time, please submit your permit application to the park 60 days prior to the date you plan to fly your remote controlled aircraft."

60 days? If I plan 60 hours ahead it would be a fluke"

 

[theDRONEranger]

"For adequate processing time, please submit your permit application to the park 60 days prior to the date you plan to fly your remote controlled aircraft."

60 days? If I plan 60 hours ahead it would be a fluke"

Pretty effective way of keeping the drones grounded, eh?