Latest CASA newsletter re VLOS

[MAvic_South_Oz]

..
Latest CASA newsletter has VLOS article where you can only do this watching your drone by sight at all times when flying.
Not via goggles (understandable), not by phone, ipad, or tablet, and not by other monitor device.

Not sure how many fly drones there at CASA (I know many do), but how are you to film / photograph, without looking mainly at your device screen ?
When videoing, heck I am ALWAYS on the screen, mostly only looking at the drone when coming in for a landing, and taking off for pre flight stick movement testing.

You can apply for an FPV exemption, not sure what's involved, maybe a spotter for anything other than eyes on the drone ?

I think this is extremely limiting on most hobbyist use here in Oz, that's if people follow the guidelines.
How many here will ?

To me, this is quite over reaching on safety, what can one do, complain ? Ask for an explanation or question if creating images and / or video is outside rules now ?

Thumbnails below from the newsletter, and the CASA website drone rules, which also have a link to the CASA FPV info page.

 

[thispilothere]

I'm guessing they're making a distinction between being ABLE to see the drone with your eyes and actually having your eyes focused on the drone the whole time.

You can look at the screen as long as you could look up and see the drone. You can't use the screen to fly behind structures or too far so that, if you looked up, you couldn't see the drone.

It's the same basic idea here too...and I break the rule all the time.

 

[Cobra193]

If it’s like the US, the expectation is to use a visual observer to keep an eye on the drone while the pilot watches the screen. The VO would then be the one to always have the drone in sight.

 

[Galeforce1]

CASA is not trying to tell us to keep our eyes on the drone at all times, but it is effectively saying that we should be constantly checking we can see the drone directly (VLOS).

I think it is directed at those who never look up from their screens to see where their drone is, and who cause problems for themselves and others by losing sight of (and control of) their drones.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I'm guessing they're making a distinction between being ABLE to see the drone with your eyes and actually having your eyes focused on the drone the whole time.

CASA is not trying to tell us to keep our eyes on the drone at all times, but it is effectively saying that we should be constantly checking we can see the drone directly (VLOS).

That would make perfect sense to do that way.
I know where my drone is at all times via telemetry, keep drone orientated to the map so I'm always facing it, if I look up I can spot it pretty quickly, using white strobes if going beyond say 150m to 200m (490' to 660').
Rarely do I go beyond that for long, but if I do it's under very cautious circumstances.

The wording is clear though.
You can fly FPV indoors, or with special clearance outdoors.
CASA consider goggles, phone, tablet, or controller screen as FPV.

They are saying this in black& white.

I'm torn about contacting them to confirm the operations of a video flight, might be told that it's considered FPV . . .
and it is in reality, but you still have some high level of awareness of the surroundings.

If it’s like the US, the expectation is to use a visual observer to keep an eye on the drone while the pilot watches the screen. The VO would then be the one to always have the drone in sight.

It's annoying though the following para says FPV drone racing is becoming more popular around the world . . . lumping in screen devices with the obvious FPV / googles type flying.
It's nowhere near the same.

FPV goggles you do need to have a VO, so you can be aware of changes around you.
Flying DJI drones the way 99% of us do, we have that peripheral vision awareness of the surroundings.

Not going to change the way I fly, it'd rule out video, composing photos, everything you do but simple flying in the immediate vicinity . . . flying for the fun of watching the drone.

 

[Galeforce1]

Not going to change the way I fly, it'd rule out video, composing photos, everything you do but simple flying in the immediate vicinity . . . flying for the fun of watching the drone.

It is easy to keep your eyes on the drone and take photos / video at the same time, while looking down at the screen when necessary. Flying and photography are not mutually exclusive, as the CASA newsletter implies.

If you take the newsletter literally, it says you can't use a screen (or goggles) to fly outdoors unless a member of a club that has approval or with CASA permission. That of course is ridiculous, and dangerous.

They are not specifically saying you can't take photos/videos while flying outdoors, although it seems they are trying to lump flying with goggles with using screens. The newsletter will certainly confuse a lot of people.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

They are not specifically saying you can't take photos/videos while flying outdoors, although it seems they are trying to lump flying with goggles with using screens. The newsletter will certainly confuse a lot of people.

Muddy info happens a bit with the drone updates I've seen coming through the newsletter.
It's not good that people can even read that into the info they sent.

I'm happy just continuing to fly and do what I do, not going to contact CASA re this to clarify.
As mentioned, I know the telemetry well, the map, all is very clear . . . I take off, do the whole shebang of stick movements to confirm all good, then it's almost screen the whole flight until I see the drone near to me for landing, which I'll usually do manually on a ply sheet landing pad, or half the time fly right to me for hand catch.

If I see a CASA rep anywhere, I'll quietly ask them to confirm, have done this for VLOS inquiries before and found them fairly open to elaborate.

edit typo

 

[Galeforce1]

Muddy info happens a bit with the drone updates I've seen coming through the newsletter.
It's not good that people can even read that into the info they sent.

I'm happy just continuing to fly and do what I do, not going to contact CASA re this to clarify.
As mentioned, I know the telemetry well, the map, all is very clear . . . I take off, do the whole shebang of stick movements to confirm all good, then it's almost screen the whole flight until I see the done near to me for landing, which I'll usually do manually on a ply sheet landing pad, or half the time fly right to me for hand catch.

If I see a CASA rep anywhere, I'll quietly ask them to confirm, have done this for VLOS inquiries before and found them fairly open to elaborate.

I wouldn't be surprised if CASA has to clarify the wording at some point when challenged by pilots. In the meantime, I see no reason to fly any differently.

 

[Meta4]

I'm torn about contacting them to confirm the operations of a video flight, might be told that it's considered FPV . . .
and it is in reality, but you still have some high level of awareness or the surroundings.

Commonsense would suggest that it's like driving.
You need to watch the road ahead, but there's nothing to say that you cannot look at your instruments from time to time.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

Commonsense would suggest that it's like driving.
You need to watch the road ahead, but there's nothing to say that you cannot look at your instruments from time to time.

I hope so, at least if they clarify it sometime we'll know it's ok to use a device screen.
The screen view is the closest thing we have to a windscreen view so should be ok to use it.

 

[Meta4]

I hope so, at least if they clarify it sometime we'll know it's ok to use a device screen.
The screen view is the closest thing we have to a windscreen view so should be ok to use it.

Of course it's OK.
Otherwise they would specify that you cannot look at the screen to take photos (which would be ridiculous).
They know that drones have screens and people use them to shoot video etc.

They are saying (in their clumsy, official CASA way, that a screen view doesn't substitute for your unaided eyesight view.

 

[old man mavic]

the problem with all the different rules around the world ,is that they are all grey ares that can be interpreted in many different ways ,the wording is ambiguous ,but you can bet your bottom dollar that if anyone ever falls foul of those rules ,then all that ambiguity suddenly disappears and things become very clear

 

[RayOZ]

Seems like CASA displays a bit of ignorance between different types of drones. When they lump the photography drones with FPV drones, I think people are just going to ignore the rules.
Unlike driving, once you let go of the stick, the drone will hover place. It won’t keep going. It’s got GPS and can fly home autonomously.
Once you make rules that are too onerous or ignores common sense, people are just going to ignore.

 

[Squidinc]

Yep… VLOS can be difficult to maintain at times…

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Mavic Maxwell]

..
Latest CASA newsletter has VLOS article where you can only do this watching your drone by sight at all times when flying.
Not via goggles (understandable), not by phone, ipad, or tablet, and not by other monitor device.

Not sure how many fly drones there at CASA (I know many do), but how are you to film / photograph, without looking mainly at your device screen ?
When videoing, heck I am ALWAYS on the screen, mostly only looking at the drone when coming in for a landing, and taking off for pre flight stick movement testing.

You can apply for an FPV exemption, not sure what's involved, maybe a spotter for anything other than eyes on the drone ?

I think this is extremely limiting on most hobbyist use here in Oz, that's if people follow the guidelines.
How many here will ?

To me, this is quite over reaching on safety, what can one do, complain ? Ask for an explanation or question if creating images and / or video is outside rules now ?

Thumbnails below from the newsletter, and the CASA website drone rules, which also have a link to the CASA FPV info page.


View attachment 136039 View attachment 136040

I saw that too and wondered is it better perhaps not to ask as it is easier sometimes to get forgiveness rather than permission. If the bird always has VLOS, how would they be able to check where your eyes are focussed? I see here an advantage to have the condition Strabismus.

 

[micinqld]

Flying this morning at 300m+ out then looked at the screen to confirm photo shoot, upon returning to view the drone, lost it visually!
Flying over water and completely comfortable of where the drone was via the map and under my control but in breach of the letter of the law!
Agree, fly responsibly and ask for forgiveness if challenged.

 

[RayOZ]

I read and watched the CASA video. My impression is they are talking about FPV drones, and not the typical photography drones. They made it rather vague.

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

I read and watched the CASA video. My impression is they are talking about FPV drones, and not the typical photography drones. They made it rather vague.

Yep, mentioning FPV as flying using goggles, any sort of screen viewing device / controller screen, it’s just simply confusing all round.
I agree flying and using a screen for composing or shooting video should be ok, if you an look up and see your drone.
That’s how I’ll continue to fly.

 

[4006448]

That would make perfect sense to do that way.
I know where my drone is at all times via telemetry, keep drone orientated to the map so I'm always facing it, if I look up I can spot it pretty quickly, using white strobes if going beyond say 150m to 200m (490' to 660').
Rarely do I go beyond that for long, but if I do it's under very cautious circumstances.

The wording is clear though.
You can fly FPV indoors, or with special clearance outdoors.
CASA consider goggles, phone, tablet, or controller screen as FPV.

They are saying this in black& white.

I'm torn about contacting them to confirm the operations of a video flight, might be told that it's considered FPV . . .
and it is in reality, but you still have some high level of awareness of the surroundings.



It's annoying though the following para says FPV drone racing is becoming more popular around the world . . . lumping in screen devices with the obvious FPV / googles type flying.
It's nowhere near the same.

FPV goggles you do need to have a VO, so you can be aware of changes around you.
Flying DJI drones the way 99% of us do, we have that peripheral vision awareness of the surroundings.

Not going to change the way I fly, it'd rule out video, composing photos, everything you do but simple flying in the immediate vicinity . . . flying for the fun of watching the drone.

If push came to shove, it would be my argument that provided I can still see my drone (VLOS) then that’s all that’s required. Most laws I’ve come across are aimed at the lowest common denominator - think about the cowboy pilot who has no regard for guidelines or boundaries. If I’m CASA and I ask you to point your drone out to me - if you can’t do that and I can’t see it, guess what?

 

[MAvic_South_Oz]

If push came to shove, it would be my argument that provided I can still see my drone (VLOS) then that’s all that’s required. If I’m CASA and I ask you to point your drone out to me - if you can’t do that and I can’t see it, guess what?
Most laws I’ve come across are aimed at the lowest common denominator - think about the cowboy pilot who has no regard for guidelines or boundaries.

Yep, most time (I hope) most pilots can point to their drone if required, don't think it'll be CASA asking though, more likely law enforcement (as if there are enough of them for current duties !!).
Such is how airspace regs are going in the UK, and the US . . . and they have to generally have someone report "suspicious or nefarious drone activity', as spurious as the report is likely ending up, for LE to respond.

CASA will probably do drone monitoring through Aeroscope and other such autonomous systems at airports and other important sites, military probably do their own ?

When I think of making rules / laws for the lowest common denominator, I tend to look at that in drone terms as I do in automotive terms.
The lowest common denominator in driving vehicles is the driver that shows they are totally incompetence at the wheel. No understanding of spatial matters, don't know how their car functions, doesn't use the vehicles functions like indicators / mirrors in a correct and timely matter, etc.
With drones it's similar, it's the pilot . . . no wait that would be 'owner' . . . that has no idea how his drone works, never read a manual, or looked for other sources of info, no idea what all the telemetry means, where the drone is from screen info, what limitations the drone has, dangers, certainly a lack of common sense.

Cowboys are a danger of course.
They are the equivalent of driver that is reckless, risk taker, only focused on themselves and getting to where they want, no thought to dangers to others, or what might result.
Some cowboys might be great at piloting their aircraft, but things can go wrong, and might some day.

I've asked CASA about 2 of my flights I myself had concerns with VLOS, both were of no concern to them.
Seems they are fairly sensible talking one on one.
The newsletter article is stating what it states clearly in B&W.
Whether meant to be exactly that, or if they've made an error, can't be sure, they talk about FPV, goggles, screens of any type, it's vague . . . that's not good communication.

Anyway, I guess we'll carry on with what we feel right for ourselves using a screen to fly at times when doing what we do taking photos or video.
Seems ok when we can have that visual when required, and of course awareness of the surrounding airspace to respond accordingly to any dangers that may appear.