Law Question: Can a City Commission arbitrarily make rules regulating Drones without FAA approval?

[PhoebeSnow]

Visiting Niagara Falls on the Canadian side a Mavic Pro owner took out his drone to fly right next to the main visitor center. Just as I went to alert him having read the very strict Canadian drone regulations a Falls Employee ran out and told him in minutes he would lose his drone and be heavily fined. He was a US citizen. Point being you must be prudent, cautious, and keenly aware of the various regulations despite being right or wrong. And with hundreds of people around I was surprised of the flying attempt. I tried getting a Canadian license to fly in deep woods on isolated trails where I bike and it was almost virtually impossible for a NON-RESIDENT as the regulations are so strict, onerous, stiff, requiring flight stipulations that are literally beyond the capability of the majority of recreational drone fliers. Too much to review here but I leave my drone at home while visiting Canada (when you can visit Canada).

 

[MKurr]

The municipality can still fine you or even arrest you for flying over their beach.. But if you choose to fight either, you'll win, because their "regulation" is invalid and unenforceable. But fighting the city may cost you far more in the end. As Rousseau famously said, "....I have never been ruined but twice. Once when I lost a suit, and once when I won...". That said, you legally CAN fly over the beach--only FAA can say otherwise. Federal sovereignty trumps any city, county or state law. A city can, however, ban take-off and landing on city-owned or managed land. The city of Seattle did just that.

So basically, the restrictions imposed by a (even government) facility are not acually valid if there is no notice in the sectional charts, the NOTAMs, or TFRs?

 

[muabg]

FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority.
For Immediate Release
July 20, 2018
Congress has provided the FAA with exclusive authority to regulate aviation safety, the efficiency of the navigable airspace, and air traffic control, among other things. State and local governments are not permitted to regulate any type of aircraft operations, such as flight paths or altitudes, or the navigable airspace.
Cities and municipalities are not permitted to have their own rules or regulations governing the operation of aircraft.

 

[MKurr]

FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority.
For Immediate Release
July 20, 2018
Congress has provided the FAA with exclusive authority to regulate aviation safety, the efficiency of the navigable airspace, and air traffic control, among other things. State and local governments are not permitted to regulate any type of aircraft operations, such as flight paths or altitudes, or the navigable airspace.
Cities and municipalities are not permitted to have their own rules or regulations governing the operation of aircraft.

Thanks! Do you have the link?

 

[muabg]

Here you go

Press Release – FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority

www.faa.gov

 

[GregS]

The municipality can still fine you or even arrest you for flying over their beach.. But if you choose to fight either, you'll win, because their "regulation" is invalid and unenforceable. But fighting the city may cost you far more in the end. As Rousseau famously said, "....I have never been ruined but twice. Once when I lost a suit, and once when I won...". That said, you legally CAN fly over the beach--only FAA can say otherwise. Federal sovereignty trumps any city, county or state law. A city can, however, ban take-off and landing on city-owned or managed land. The city of Seattle did just that.

I have stated in another thread the same thing is true in Gulf Shores, and Orange Beach, AL. It's a $500 fine to fly a drone in at least Gulf Shores city limit. Yes, I would win if I took it to court. I'm a snow bird down here from Jan to April from Illinois, so I would pay the fine, hire a lawyer, and my court date would probably be in July. It's called, "Gotcha".

 

[muabg]

FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority.
For Immediate Release
July 20, 2018
Congress has provided the FAA with exclusive authority to regulate aviation safety, the efficiency of the navigable airspace, and air traffic control, among other things. State and local governments are not permitted to regulate any type of aircraft operations, such as flight paths or altitudes, or the navigable airspace.
Cities and municipalities are not permitted to have their own rules or regulations governing the operation of aircraft.

Press Release – FAA Statement–Federal vs. Local Drone Authority

www.faa.gov

 

[Soothsayerman]

So let us relate this to aircraft. The forest service like to give us grief if we land on forest service roads. Yet it is specially allowed in CFR's. So we carry a copy of that to show to the ill-informed ranger. Who then cites us for not having an ATV sicker for powered off road vehicles! We did the same as military officers when we charged somebody for a violation of the UCMJ. You are charged with, Blah, Blah and Conduct Unbecoming. So try to defend against that.

Badly written and cross purpose laws are all over the page. The worst being homeowners associations. La Jolla, California had clauses in the titles of the land that prohibited sales to Jewish folks, black etc until quite recently. Took years to overturn and that was obviously stupid, racist BS. So with drones, expect little sympathy, but it is the same battle against an obviously incorrect law. Have large bags of cash available to fight it. It is also very difficult and time consuming to sue the individual law enforcement officer. They get support by their union, you just have to spend huge amounts of money to get to your goal. On average, takes around 5 years to do (Blevins Action). Kind of why you see the kind of arrogance they display, no real accountability.

So it is best to do your flying from discrete areas. If they can't obviously find you, they can't charge you right or wrong. They really will not search too hard. If you stand on the beach, then your a sucker target.

That's how I try to fly, just be invisible. I always have my bag of FAA rules with me and my 107 license ready to go, but I would just rather not even deal with it. People can see my drone sometimes if they try (I rarely flow below 200') but they have no idea where I am.

 

[Richie K]

In AZ we have a state law that prohibits anyone or entity in AZ but the state from making regulating drone flight. It encompasses all but NFS and Reservation lands... as both of these are Federal.

I carry a copy of the law with me just in case.

I fly in Az. How do I find the State Law?

 

[Thomas B]

I fly in Az. How do I find the State Law?

Google
Or search AZ.gov

 

[Vic Moss]

So let us relate this to aircraft. The forest service like to give us grief if we land on forest service roads. Yet it is specially allowed in CFR's. So we carry a copy of that to show to the ill-informed ranger. Who then cites us for not having an ATV sicker for powered off road vehicles!

Can you please email me more information about a USFS Ranger giving you a ticket for not having a sticker on your drone. [email protected]. I'll look into this and make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[Dogpilot]

Can you please email me more information about a USFS Ranger giving you a ticket for not having a sticker on your drone. [email protected]. I'll look into this and make sure it doesn't happen again.

Not a drone, a regular certified aircraft, I use a 206H for backcountry work. The Caravan need just too much road, 750' vs 1,500'.

 

[baddog]

Just like National Parks. They own the land! Not the airspace. Therefore, they may make rules on “Take Off/Landing” but not over-flight.

You can not fly over National Parks, FAA has an agreement with the National Parks and have denied any and all drone flight in the National park airspace and boundaries, without a special permit.

 

[Vic Moss]

You can not fly over National Parks, FAA has an agreement with the National Parks and have denied any and all drone flight in the National park airspace and boundaries, without a special permit.

I'm not sure where you got that information, but you're wrong.

With the exception of very few parks (Grand Canyon being one), there is no FAA prohibition about flying UAS over lands and waters under NPS control. This is a common misconception.

We are free to fly over the parks from outside if we follow all FAA regulations.

 

[Mac282]

I basically fly only on the NFS land. The only restricted airspace near me is a National Monument- Cliff Dwellings. Never had a FPO or LEO Ranger stop to question me while flying. Did have a Hot Shot crew stop to check it out, more curious about the abilities of the drone. All in all my experience with the NFS staff has been positive and that's from 3 different forests regions. Just another reason to live out in the boonies, miles upon miles of free airspace with no worries.

 

[Vic Moss]

I basically fly only on the NFS land. The only restricted airspace near me is a National Monument- Cliff Dwellings. Never had a FPO or LEO Ranger stop to question me while flying. Did have a Hot Shot crew stop to check it out, more curious about the abilities of the drone. All in all my experience with the NFS staff has been positive and that's from 3 different forests regions. Just another reason to live out in the boonies, miles upon miles of free airspace with no worries.

We are allowed to fly in USFS lands as long as their aren't designated Wilderness of during certain nesting or mating seasons.

 

[theDRONEranger]

I basically fly only on the NFS land. The only restricted airspace near me is a National Monument- Cliff Dwellings. Never had a FPO or LEO Ranger stop to question me while flying. Did have a Hot Shot crew stop to check it out, more curious about the abilities of the drone. All in all my experience with the NFS staff has been positive and that's from 3 different forests regions. Just another reason to live out in the boonies, miles upon miles of free airspace with no worries.

Have wide open spaces as a back yard is wonderful, isn’t it?

 

[Photo Booth]

I was flying my Mavic in Grand Mesa National Forest (Colorado) in June 2018. A Ranger stopped to chat with me. We had a longish conversation about drones and drone flying and then he mentioned that he didn't think it was legal for me to fly in a National Forest. I had to explain to him that he was confusing a National Forest with a National Park.

He was cool about it and didn't give me any grief. But it's one more example of the people responsible for enforcing the rules not necessarily knowing what the rules are.

Mark

 

[arcticfrost]

I try to follow their rules to the best of ability but they do restrict and are unclear in some areas.
What do you think about this?

Drones - Rights and the Federal Aviation Administration. Is the FAA constitutional?

Is the FAA constitutional?

www.bitchute.com

 

[Photo Booth]

I try to follow their rules to the best of ability but they do restrict and are unclear in some areas.
What do you think about this?

Drones - Rights and the Federal Aviation Administration. Is the FAA constitutional?

Is the FAA constitutional?

www.bitchute.com

The Constitution gives Congress the power to create laws and establish regulatory bodies to oversee the application and adherence to those laws. The FAA didn't create itself, Congress ordered the establishment of the FAA.

I only watched 4-5 minutes of the linked video and gave up because I deemed the subject being addressed as in the same group as other crackpot theories that get floated in this country from time to time.

Mark