Let the debating begin...

[Gr8fulTed]

I recently found this video, and with the debating going on regarding 51Drones' video of 7 Tips to Avoid the FAA, I thought this was also worth posting if it hasn't been already. It was interesting and some of the information was certainly disappointing ( I can't post to Facebook???)

 

[Platinum 4 ever]

I recently found this video, and with the debating going on regarding 51Drones' video of 7 Tips to Avoid the FAA, I thought this was also worth posting if it hasn't been already. It was interesting and some of the information was certainly disappointing ( I can't post to Facebook???)

NOPE..... I am not giving this person anymore free publicity

 

[Gr8fulTed]

NOPE..... I am not giving this person anymore free publicity

I'm slightly confused. Are you saying this person is lying? That it's just a promotional video? It appears this is on the level. Help me understand how it is not.

 

[THE CYBORG]

That made it as clear as mud but after all that I still would say most of us do fly relationally – the intent is fun or did I miss something ?
Part 107 comes up all the time but what is the equivalent in the UK

 

[Tony McDrone]

This video assumes that all pilots take photos and videos with the intent of posting them online. I have taken several hundred videos and several thousand photos from my drone, and none of them have ever been posted on a website. They are ALL stored on my laptop.

This video does not give the complete story, in my opinion.

 

[Gr8fulTed]

This video assumes that all pilots take photos and videos with the intent of posting them online. I have taken several hundred videos and several thousand photos from my drone, and none of them have ever been posted on a website. They are ALL stored on my laptop.

This video does not give the complete story, in my opinion.

I personally think that most drone pilots do post to social media the videos/photos they take. Sharing is one of the fun things to do.

 

[Tony McDrone]

They do not speak to pilots like myself or others like me. There are many enthusiasts who fly just because it is a thrill...and never post a video. I may be in the minority here, but that doesn’t change the way the information is being presented to us as viewers.

 

[B52-D]

Explanation of Part 107 vs Recreational. I think Greg at Pilot Institute makes it pretty clear, and as he says, “Don’t Shoot The Messenger”

 

[DanMan32]

I only watched half of it but:

He seems to change what the FAA representative says. He may be just the messenger, but he's altering the message.

The first two things the agent said were:
Monetary exchange isn't the test if a flight is commercial
It is the intent of the flight that matters, not whats done with the media after flight.

However I suspect FAA rulings on what specific situations with social media constituted commercial flight will eventually be challenged in court.

 

[THE CYBORG]

The dictionary gives the definition of commercial as “making or intended to make a profit”.

 

[old man mavic]

i too have never posted on social media platforms ,everything i video or picture is kept on my 4 TB drive the only thing i post is pics on this forum for the enjoyment of fellow fliers if others wish to put videos on this and other sites that is their choice

 

[vindibona1]

But what the FAA guys says is utter rubbish. But being the guy with the badge, but the FAA guys is saying "The law is what I/we say it is". And here is the logical rebuttal for his/their nonsensical position:

Can you take photographs as a hobbiest from your pocket camera or even from your drone without flight? Of course.
Can you take those photos and post them on your social media page without ANY commercial intent? Of course.
But were you to do the same thing with your drone, turn the camera on, take photo or video of a family event, or butterflies mating or whatever, post it on your media page.... that makes it Part 107?
There seems to be a major disconnect here.

And then the dude goes on to say something that totally rebuts his previous statement; that anything that promotes "furtherance of a business" is Part 107. I wasn't aware that posting stuff on FaceBook or YouTube or Instagram without any real business implication could be furtherance thereof. It seems existential in nature; that if there is no business, how could there be any furtherance of same of something that doesn't exist???

So much more that can be said.

 

[Gr8fulTed]

But what the FAA guys says is utter rubbish. But being the guy with the badge, but the FAA guys is saying "The law is what I/we say it is". And here is the logical rebuttal for his/their nonsensical position:

Can you take photographs as a hobbiest from your pocket camera or even from your drone without flight? Of course.
Can you take those photos and post them on your social media page without ANY commercial intent? Of course.
But were you to do the same thing with your drone, turn the camera on, take photo or video of a family event, or butterflies mating or whatever, post it on your media page.... that makes it Part 107?
There seems to be a major disconnect here.

And then the dude goes on to say something that totally rebuts his previous statement; that anything that promotes "furtherance of a business" is Part 107. I wasn't aware that posting stuff on FaceBook or YouTube or Instagram without any real business implication could be furtherance thereof. It seems existential in nature; that if there is no business, how could there be any furtherance of same of something that doesn't exist???

So much more that can be said.

There is credence to your post.
However, the FAA still believes a Youtube channel is a business. The first FAA person this guy spoke with in this short video seemed to say ok, while the second was clear it was a violation.

 

[DanMan32]

And that's where it will eventually be challenged in court; whether posting on a personal social media page unconditionally constitutes furtherance of a business. Social media is a conveyance of sharing information. Some of it is as or for a business but I would say most is as a personal hobby. If i take a thumb drive of my photos taken during flight and put in the mail for Aunt Clara, is that furtherance of a business? The mail service does benefit from my using it.

 

[RadioFlyerMan]

Well, it was fun while it lasted. I guess I'm guilty of promoting myself for the purposes of furthering my ego. My apologies to all. No more vids will be posted until I get my 107.

 

[WithTheBirds]

And that's where it will eventually be challenged in court; whether posting on a personal social media page unconditionally constitutes furtherance of a business. Social media is a conveyance of sharing information. Some of it is as or for a business but I would say most is as a personal hobby. If i take a thumb drive of my photos taken during flight and put in the mail for Aunt Clara, is that furtherance of a business? The mail service does benefit from my using it.

Do you have shares in, or otherwise derive income from, the mail service business?

 

[SkyeHigh]

So what is the position of a photographer flying as a passenger in a light aircraft, or an individual flying a microlight or hang glider taking photos whether to sell... or not?

 

[Meta4]

There is credence to your post.
However, the FAA still believes a Youtube channel is a business. The first FAA person this guy spoke with in this short video seemed to say ok, while the second was clear it was a violation.

Despite a few cases where individual FAA personnel have stated this, it's just not true.
The FAA's official policy on the matter can be seen here:

FAA: Home

fsims.faa.gov

Here's the relevant section and note the part I've highlighted in red:

C. Evidence. In all cases, the FAA must have acceptable evidence in support of all alleged facts in order to take legal enforcement action. Inspectors are reminded that:​

1) Electronic media posted on the Internet is only one form of evidence which may be used to support an enforcement action and it must be authenticated.​

2) Electronic media posted on the Internet is ordinarily not sufficient evidence alone to determine that an operation is not in compliance with 14 CFR. However, electronic media may serve as evidence of possible violations and may be retained for future enforcement action.​

3) Inspectors have no authority to direct or suggest that electronic media posted on the Internet must be removed.​

NOTE: Electronic media posted on a video website does not automatically constitute a commercial operation or commercial purpose, or other non-hobby or non-recreational use.

 

[Meta4]

Well, it was fun while it lasted. I guess I'm guilty of promoting myself for the purposes of furthering my ego. My apologies to all. No more vids will be posted until I get my 107.

See post #18

 

[DanMan32]

Do you have shares in, or otherwise derive income from, the mail service business?

I don't, but neither do I with YouTube but some suggest that YouTube themselves benefit from my use of their product with my posts of drone footage and so that would be a 107 flight.
So would the mail service benefit from my use of their services to convey my drone footage so that too would be a 107 flight by the same argument.

Both seem absurd.